DM - here we go again

[HotHandle]

She’s sulking and attention seeking. Again. Every now and again there’s a flare up like this. She’s been called out on her poor behaviour yet we are the hurtful ones. I’m not doing what she wants so the toys are out of the pram.

I don’t know where things go from here. She’s said to not contact her unless I can be kind. In one sense this is a relief, I can put her out of my mind for a bit, but then what? How long does it go on for? Until Christmas (when my plans won’t suit her...)? How do we get past this?

She is so self absorbed and I t’s always always all about how hard done by she is.

I can usually forgive her but I struggle to forget. It chips away at our relationship little by little.... But this time she’s really shown herself up.

However, I don’t think I can do NC, it feels too extreme. But then LC doesn’t feel like a real option either. It means missing out with other family members and LC won’t sit well with her (more ammunition for how hurtful I am).

I’ve read all about narc mother stuff. She fits the bill. I can accept it and can deal with the emotional side, but feel lost with the practical side.

Yes you do need to shrug your shoulders and get on with life - but that would be unrealistic and impossible without support from a skilled therapists who would work with you to heal the damage she has caused to your core through childhood. Immersing yourself in positive relationships with good friends will nourish you, make you emotionally strong and will throw a stark contrast against your DMs dysfunctional behaviour

I’d never thought of it like this.

God I feel sad about it all today. I don’t plan to contact her any time particularly soon, and that makes me sad. I understand why it’s the right thing but it’s all so silly and unnecessary. But you’re all right, with everything else Vic got going on at the moment, she doesn’t really deserve the headspace.

You are going to feel sad. Even after years of NC, you will still occasionally feel sad. Very normal and understandable.

A milestone, seeing other happy families, hearing about other supportive mothers, well meaning but ignorant people who make comments.

You just need to hold on to why you are doing this. You are looking after yourself and well-being. You can’t not change her, so you have changed yourself.

Understand sadness happens, but don’t let it take over.

It is sad to see that pain, suffering and trauma have been passed down the generations from GM to your DM and then on to you. It is known as inter generational trauma - but you are choosing not to pass this on to your children by informing yourself, be aware of triggers, patterns of behaviour and then choosing see it, address it and not pass it on. She has not chosen to do this and if to stem the tide of toxic inter generational drama and pain from overwhelming and polluting your parenting and DCs requires you to go NC then so be it. She has made choices that keep her where she is emotionally - she is the common denominator if she is constantly falling out with people - not just you. But you have chosen a different route of reflection, change and growth which you and your DC will flourish in. She will tarnish this by triggering you and injuring yiu emtionally if your let her. She can’t help herself until she get professional help. Explains her bahaviour but doesn’t excuse it.

If she's going to change she can, and she doesn't need you. And shouldn't need you. Using you to make herself (feel) better is part of the problem. And how can she be a victim who can be excused, but you're a bad daughter who needs to be nicer? Apply the same standards: you have both been hurt by your parents, you are both responsible for your behaviour.

Try to keep in mind what people are really responsible for. People are basically never responsible for their parents' actions, definitely not in your case or in her case. Once I was able to understand my own parents (and their parents, and their parents...) as simultaneously abusers and victims of abusers, and able to stop myself from only thinking of them as victims and then me as someone being mean victims of child abuse, I felt more peaceful and NC seemed more sensible.

You can go NC and still keep an ear out, read letters. Just means you can feel free to ignore/bin the nasty stuff. If she does change, you can try again. But you can't make her change. That has to come from her. Your only choice is whether or not to be part of this in the meantime. And just because she should change, and you want her to change, and she herself may even want to change, it doesn't mean she will, so it's not a case of dealing with her bad behaviour in the mean time. Hope she'll change if you want to, but protect yourself against her not changing.

Nothing from dm still.

The lack of contact has me questioning what’s right and what’s wrong? Is it me? Is it her? Does it even matter? What’s the point of arguing? Is it just an argument or is it more than that? Is just “a bit difficult” and I just have to suck it up? Or am I thr difficult one.

I don’t really feel any better for the lack of contact tbh. Stuck.

Your mum could be like mine. As soon as she realised that I wasn’t going to be her supply I was dumped. Zero contact despite being told of two grandchildren being born.

Personally I love it. I don’t dread the phone ringing, getting emails or answering the door. Life is a lot less stressful. I have room to breath and I have worked on my mental health and self esteem without the constant abuse.

Or-In her mind, she is punishing you. You are also punishing you, just as she wanted. It’s a game, waiting for you to crawl back and beg forgiveness.

Up to you what you do. Personally... leave her to it and look after yourself.

I would savour not hearing from her to be honest. All she gives you anyway is earache and emotional pain.

You said yourself earlier, she (your mother) does not deserve the headspace.

Stop giving her headspace, your previous comment re arguing/argument (and this was never arguing or an argument) and such like all FOG based and you are still mired in this. Your relationship with your mother broke down mainly and simply because of your mother and her behaviours towards you. She regards you as an extension of her. It is simply also not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

This comment from another20 bears repeating:-

"She will not change, so she will 100% hurt you again. Each time YOU allow her to do this you get punched, winded and knocked to the floor emotionally. You then need to find Herculean strength to pull yourself back up again just to carry on with your daily life. Whilst all of this is going on you are distracted and preoccupied with the hurt, trying to rationalise the irrational and trying to get back on your feet emotionally. This is taking up your headspace and finite energy which means there is less available for your DC, the other positive, rewarding and fulfilling relationships in your life. Choose who to give your energy to, take yourself out of punching distance and move in to a much more enriching life with your DC".

Or-In her mind, she is punishing you. You are also punishing you, just as she wanted.

This is what I will focus on.

You are right about the FOG Attila. I feel these three things to varying degrees at various times.

I read this thread to DH and he was amazed at how spot on you guys are.

What you are all saying makes total sense. Just hard to apply.

Recommendations for therapists who work by Skype gratefully received!

CAnt help you with a name, but make sure you check what their experience is with toxic families and what their attitudes are to NC.

We had one poster who’s (well meaning ) therapist actively encouraged her to have contact with an abusive parent. Made her feel horrible and she stopped going.

Not all therapists are experienced with toxic parents.

If you ask on the stately homes thread, they maybe able to point you in the right direction

Still NC from DM. I feel sad about it. Is she punishing me by not getting in touch as someone suggested upthread? Does she think I’m punishing her? Are we both just being stubborn? Does she care? Is it going to be a battle of wills until one of us backs down and makes contact?? I have softened about it a bit I guess, it feels silly and a waste of time and emotions to be cross with each other... but then it’s also making me realize that unless it’s on her terms and I’m doing as she wants me to do, she’ll sulk and throw her toys out of the pram. It’s all so confusing.

That’s why it is called the FOG.

How about you start writing a letter to her, but with no intention of actually sending it. Write down some of your memories of her narc behaviour, how you felt about it, how she reacted to your emotions, how she acted afterwards etc. Then reread it. You know you will be signing up for more of that. Are you ok with that? Do you want to invite her back into your life, knowing that she will never ever change? She will never apologise, she will punish you for crimes you don’t even know you have committed?have a good think about that. That may help you out of the fog.

Sorry about lack of paragraphs. For some reason my phone want let me.

She is trying to punish you but actually only punishing yourself. Just be bright and breezy about it.

"DM knows where I am when she's ready to behave reasonably" remind yourself of that!

Yes an apology seems unlikely and another drama at some point seems more than likely. She makes herself miserable though so why does she damage everything? Why can’t she see that this behavior doesn’t get her what she wants? I did think of writing a letter Aussie but more to get my feelings out, but it’s a good idea to remind myself as to why things are like they are. When I was still living at home before/after uni, we had a row about something or other and in a rage of anger, I listed down everything I could to describe her “unfair, angry, impatient, intolerant, selfish......” The list was so long and I was so surprised not only at the length of the list and how many negative words there were to describe her, but just how easily at that moment it all just flowed out. It felt good at the time, but I soon got rid of it, feeling guilty about “what kind of daughter writes such a list about their own mother”....Random thanks for bright and breezy tip, I like the idea of reframing it to be no big deal. Thank you all again. I think I’ll nip back to this thread when I need it.

Paragraphs not working here either!

Her behaviour does get her what she wants. That’s why she won’t change. Narc habit coupled with amazing arrogance. Up until now, you have stepped back in line. She is waiting for that. And if you don’t she will either drop you or up the ante.

She is inside your head. She is punishing you still, and she's not even physically in contact! That's because she has got into your head. She is like my mum. She has spent years training you to put her "needs" first in absolutely everything. That is why you feel so empty and bereft in this time of nc. It took me years to learn that I was actually valuable as an independent adult human being, that my worth or value did not depend on the state of my mother or any relationship I did or did not have with her. Look around you. You will see how valuable and amazing you are.

red I read your post during a meeting at work and started welling up! I don’t feel very amazing and struggle to think that anyone else might feel that about me either (even DH and the kids). —Feels a bit self indulgent to say that, like I’m fishing for attention, I’m not!—

That’s your mother talking.

To not feel you are not worthy of someone telling you that you are amazing is a by product of narc mothers.

Agree with Aussiebean!

What set me on the path to eventually claim my self worth was to think about how I felt about the people I cared about. How forgiving and kind I was to them.

Then turn it around and realise that I was one of the people I cared about

Probably didn't explain that very well. Anyway be kind to yourself. Retraining your thinking habits takes time and is totally within your grasp.

to feel you are not worthy ...

I’d never thought of it like that. Figured it was just low self-confidence and not being that likeable.

I can see that my mum has contributed to that. But is it all her fault?? Surely I am fully responsible for who I am?

Re-wiring my thinking feels needed.

In a weird way, I’m tempted to contact her. As it stands she’s said not to contact her unless I can be kind. So it feels like the ball is in my court. I don’t know what I want to say or what I want her to say. I don’t feel like I should apologize (she will want me to), and I’m fairly sure she won’t. And I’m not even sure I want her to because I know it will be meaningless. I almost want her to be unreasonable again so I can blame her for this and feel guiltless. Messed up eh?