Just lost my rag with my DD1 and mother

[lolaflores]

She DD1 (25) said she was coming to see me this weekend but suddenly can't but seems to be able to hook up with my Narc DM.
I bend over fucking backwards for her. Whatever she needs, emotional, etc. I took her on holiday with Narc DM and DD2. Paid for her ticket. Fed her etc.
Last weekend I schlepped cross country to meet the parents of her shit bag boyfriend, accompanied by Narc DM (I did it for the sake of peace and I rolled over, I should not have gone).
My DM behaved like a raging fucking narc looney the entire day, I was humiliated, ashamed etc. I could go on. but I swallowed it all up, got on with it, get it out of the way, its for my DD, I want her to feel proud of me in front of these people.
Got through it. The journey is hard for me I have real mobility problems plus MH stuff (most likely courtesy of DM).
Now this weekend there seems to be no room for me but space for DM...
I have written a very harsh text to DD and I am shaking with anger and disappointment and the same feelings of humiliation. I can't tell my DH cos he will just say what do you expect which is the plain truth, unappetising as it is, I can't argue with it.

To me it seemed you were disappointed that DD preferred DGMs shopping trip, but mostly that she didn't consider your feelings and that she is spending time with narc DGM , which must worry you.
But if DD only has DGMs explanation of the relationship between you and DGM no wonder she thinks you are mad. At 25 you can tell her it was a difficult childhood without too much detail or blame, why shouldn't she know? you still seem to be shamed by it all?

almageddon the most intense feelings I have around my DM are of shame as she has always made me feel ashamed. Constant criticism, put downs, jokes, openly laughing at me. I know it comes from her own low self esteem but it has been at the expense of mine. I spent my childhood waiting for the next comment, criticism, put down, till I cringed at the sight of myself.
Namechangeforthiscancershit, I think it is a good question about whether or not patients are told they have a PD. I have asked psychiatrists and therapists whether or not they thought I was Narch or Borderline etc. The answer was no. I am terrified I am like her which is why this event has made me feel awful. I don't want to be like her and I really don't want DD round her that much but she is an adult and its her choice.
DM buys her anything she wants so its a no brainer really. Spend an afternoon with mum or go out with DGM and get new trainers...
Total DM move

Sounds like you need DM out of your life.

I think it is a good question about whether or not patients are told they have a PD. I have asked psychiatrists and therapists whether or not they thought I was Narch or Borderline etc. The answer was no. I am terrified I am like her which is why this event has made me feel awful

Interesting so maybe if you ask the direct question you get an answer. People are definitely told they have BPD (definitely not basing all this on the US show Crazy Ex Girlfriend...ok a bit) thinking about it so maybe it’s no different.

Anyway tangent over. I always read on here that if you have the self awareness to question whether you’re like your Narc parent, and to fear that then you’re nothing at all like them.

I don't think you're a narc OP. But you certainly sound like someone who has been systematically abused by one. It's easy to end up wearing their t-shirt because you lose yourself.

DD1 is your mother's golden child. She doesn't love her, she's just a tool to torture you with.

I'd tell your DD about your childhood. There is no guilt and shame on your part, that belongs to your mother.

There is no guilt and shame on your part, that belongs to your mother

This

Leave dd and dm to it. Let them be together then realise they hate each other.

It’s your DM you’re angry with. Of course dd1 will take up a shopping trip over seeing you, she can see you anytime (in her head). Your dd has no idea about your pain due to your dm’s behaviour because you have protected her so well. She can shake off your m’s comments and get out of her what she wants. Although this makes her selfish in some respects it is probably a good thing in terms of letting people mess with her.
Your m sounds awful yet it sounds like you are still surprised by her shitty behaviour. You’re obviously a trusting person but don’t trust this woman. Don’t look to her to repair the damage she’s done. She won’t. The initial pain is the worst when this stuff happens; try not to interact any further in this situation and dance to your m’s tune, it’s exactly what she wants.

I have to sit and watch as DM plays with DD1 until she is bored with her then she will inevitably flip and ne over involved with a neighbours daughter or some on else.
I don't trust her and it's the awful wait as she lines up her next stunt.
In the meantime u will stay a grey rock and hope it takes her elsewhere
Once she finds she isn't getting any of her usual kicks out of me.
She laughed at me struggling through the airport on my walking stick..."would a zimmer frame be better?" followed by a cheery laugh but looked a bit confused when no one joined in

I wouldn’t involve DD in your DM past history or drama by telling her about your childhood especially when she hasn’t asked you about it, you could just end up looking vengeful. If she asks then tell her some things. But I just think this is another burden for DD and also she will feel conflicted, have to make choices etc. DD is an adult now and will have to find out for herself about DM.... fact is... you let DM into your children’s lives knowing what she was like all along. You can’t then now expect DD to know the whole score or choose loyalties. DM is her relative too, like it or not And sounds like they have grown up with her around

Please apologise to your DD again and do not take your anger out on your child that you feel towards DM. It is totally unfair on DD

I get it, op.

But don't you see, your mother is using your daughter to make you feel like this. She is getting what she wants, and driving a wedge between you.

This is exactly the reason why i do not see my mother, and why my girls will never met her.

You need to protect yourself. And be ready to protect your daughter when the time comes. You have no idea exactly why your dd cancelled on you, your DM could have a hold on her.

I would start to distance myself in your shoes, maintain a relationship with your daughter, but not your mother, it is very obviously making you ill and stressed.

Good on you op for taking a step back. I think you are right that the shopping trip will be a direct response to your grey rock. Tbh I wouldn’t tell you df about the history, but put it context of how she treats you now. Don’t do it now, wait till it’s calmed down but point out the Laughing at you, constant barbed comments, the shopping trip that could only be on the day dd was coming to see you (perhaps after you have ‘set’ the same situation up again) your dd is an adult and has been programmed to please narc dg... it’s going to take time. Good luck and stay strong

I wouldn't mind DD having a relationship with her if it was loving but it isn't. She manipulates her. Overstep every boundary. Body shames her. And I can't stop it. Because the more you tell your dd, the more it looks like you are the problem. She needs to find out for herself. As I said, let your daughter have her relationship, but be there when she falls.

I have an absolutely nasty father who is a master manipulator. I don’t allow him around my kids for this reason... he’s no good for me and therefore no good for them!

You need to detach from DD andDM relationship as well because it’s unhealthy for you. You can’t control if

Your daughter has been conditioned into keeping her DGM happy, probably so the rage doesn't descend on her. She's not stupid, she will have noticed the effect of someone stepping out of line where your mother is concerned. She's probably going along with shopping trips etc because if she plays her part of dutiful granddaughter then DGM has no cause to visit her narc rage on her. Or she might be trying to protect you. She's observed you as she's grown up and learned that before all else, grandma is to be placated. Even if she doesn't know about your childhood there's no way on this earth that she hasn't picked up on your relationship with your mother. In my life I am your dd in this situation and it's extremely stressful to know something is badly wrong but not to know what it is or how to react to keep myself safe. It's a constant flight or fight response when DGM and DM are together, and as DGM is the more aggressive she's the one that gets her way. Later on DM might be in a bad mood with me for giving in to DGM. There's no way to please everyone least of all myself.

I can see why your angry - you mother is a bitch. You won’t change her. She knows what she’s doing. She’s cruel. You need to protect you. Why can’t you go no contact with her? She will cause you trouble if you withdraw your supply but keep going. Re your daughter you could tell her about your childhood. She may pass it on to “dear granny” but so be it. Granny will deny - you will be called mad and paranoid. It’s really hard to rise above this shit. Can you go back to therapy whilst you dis-engage with her? It may help with the difficult feelings that come up. You are not a narc. Your hurt and angry and you posted on the forum for advice. I wish you well. 🌺

OP your DD is an adult not a pawn to win against your mum. You have intense emotions which must make your DD very anxious not knowing when you might express them against her. It is very hard to have a relationship with someone who feel so strongly about things as you always feel on edge. You clearly have a low opinion of her boyfriend which she will know and probably dread you expressing it one way or the other.

Your relationship with your mother sounds very unhealthy and I'm not sure why you would continue to have it. I think you need to detach from her and concentrate on your DD. It's not your DD's role to make you feel good about yourself but you can focus on building a happy and relaxed relationship with her.

ThankshunkyJesus your assessment of the dynamics sounds spot on. I am aware that my mood is putting pressure on DD1 as my reaction has as well but i just lost it.

Yes, DGM is the most verbally and emotionally aggressive in this situation and I spend most of my time trying not to create a situatioon where she will kick off or find a reason to kick off. If there isn't a reason, she will simply create one and so we all wander round in a confused web of control and fear.

I Haven't seen my therapist for a year now. She helped me enormously and as someone outside the family, was objective about the whole set up. Its exhausting explaining it to anyone because it is so insane. Sometimes I think about the things that happened and it sounds outrageous and the only reason I believe it because I was there. Of course DM says none of it happened or I misunderstood, or I was too young to remember properly or its lies. I could go on.

Thank you Mary1935 I have come for advice. I am willing to admit my fault and the part my own anger and hurt have played in this. I have apologized to my daughter but I don't feel able to give her chapter and verse on the horror of my mother. I don't want her to look at me and see a victim. I am pathetic enough as it is

swingofthings I have never used my daughter as a pawn. she is used against me. Frequently. this is the one and only occassion I have lost my temper about it.
The number of times my DM has undermined me with regards to DD and I have said and done nothing, are dozens over the years. All usually focused around important events as well. Timed to create the most disharmony.

You're not pathetic. You've been conditioned all your life to toe the line so as to not trigger your mother. But this resonates very strongly:

You have intense emotions which must make your DD very anxious not knowing when you might express them against her

I know my dm could never ever dream of telling her mother how she feels so all the while we were growing up, she would take it out on us with mood swings, rages, and periods of silent treatment for tiny transgressions. That's what you've done with that text. Your daughter isn't a safe outlet for your anger and it's not fair to her. I think you owe it to your daughter (or both of them actually - this dynamic will be affecting both of them) to tell her a little bit about your childhood. They're not a child any more. Nothing specific, don't give her chapter and verse but just to explain a little bit why things are the way they are. It might help her. It did for me, to know that there was a reason for that behaviour. It helped me to see that my mum was also a victim. It didn't make it right, but it made the impact of my mum's behaviour towards me easier for me to bear. I know my mum loves me so much,and so much of it isn't her fault but sometimes that's not enough. Do it face to face at a pace you feel comfortable with and let her ask you questions but don't answer if you're not ready to. You've kept your mum's shame a secret all these years but it's not yours to carry. You did nothing wrong, you were just a child and you're still that child, desperately seeking your mum's approval. It's not going to come. I'm sorry

Your daughter (both of them actually) probably feel like there's a messed up jigsaw puzzle in front of them. Some pieces are upside down and they don't know if they've put the puzzle together correctly or not and nobody is helping them to figure out how it goes together. Dont you think your dd was stressed watching your DM holding court with her bf's parents? Don't you think she was stressed about changing her plans to exclude you but knowing that she's got to take that anxiety and knowing that she's hurting you onto herself in order to placate the alpha female?

I think you also need to go back to therapy so that you have some support while you go grey rock so that can be your outlet. I wish my mum would go back to therapy.

All that is so hard to read because it is all so very accurate but how to start a conversations with Dd is hard to know.
There is so.much shit swilling around its hard to k ow where to begin.

I think you should just invite her over for lunch. Somewhere you feel safe where you won't be overheard. Start by apologising for the text, don't try and temper it with "I'm sorry for that text but when you did x, you made me feel..." that's not appropriate here, just apologise unreservedly for how you may have made her feel. Then perhaps something like "you know there are issues with me and grandma. I think you're old enough for me to try and give you some of the background". See if anything flows from that. You'll know what you're comfortable saying. Sometimes saying something difficult is like throwing yourself out of a plane. You've just got to take a deep breath, cross your fingers, hope that it will all be ok when it's over, and leap.

You may cause your daughters some pain in telling them the truth. But they're being caused pain now and they don't know why.
Perhaps seek some more therapy before you broach it with them so you can work out the best way to do it.

The hardest thing for me is knowing how much my poor DM has endured at the hands of someone who is supposed to love her. But then I now know more of DGMs life and she's also been through a ton of crap in her life that she didn't deserve. I wanted to make sure the cycle stops with me, but that can only happen if it's out in the open. I'm having CBT to try to deal with this now. You might find CBT more useful than counselling.

You might not want your daughter to think you're a victim but you are. Thats ok. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with feeling that you've been wronged, and feeling angry at your mother for what she's done to you, and also that it doesn't have to define you for the rest of your life . It's ok to be affected by things and to feel your emotions. It's ok to ask for help.

You know what? You’re allowed to be angry, allowed to rage at the ongoing manipulation and undermining by your mother. People are so appalled when women are angry but why the hell wouldn’t you be?
However, being very angry with your DD isn’t going to help you (although I understand it’s borne out of hurt and frustration) so it’s about finding ways to stay calm and consistent in going NC with your mother. DD should not be calling you paranoid and mental and she’ll find it much harder to do that if you can keep your cool. Easier said than done sometimes, I know

Hunkyjesus and Queenjulian thank you for your priceless advice and insight. You have given me much to think about and a way of reaching across all the ru bish and hopefully repairing the bridges with my Dd.
Again.. I did apologize to her bit tjere is radio silence at the moment.
I txt with a lunch invite later today when I am sure she isn't with DM

Good luck op. You're going to be ok.