Was this abuse, is this normal, did i cause it? Totally lost.

[lizzedays]

Hi. I've posted a few times recently as i have been struggling with some stuff. i am getting better slightly and appreciate the mumsnet support - thank you.

ive been thinking about my past relationship as i said something to a girlfriend yesterday completely in passing and her reaction was that my partner was controlling. i keep going over it all and just wanted some objective views on it. i know it isnt good to constantly go over stuff like this, but i am feeling really conflicted about it all. these are some examples of what went on:

• on the beach and he asks if i am going to take my bikini top off. i say no. he says other people have (one other had). i said i felt uncomfortable. he said go on. i said no and tried to go back to reading my book. he stopped talking and seemed to be in a mood, although he didnt say anything. an hour later he suggests we go in the sea. he asks me to take my top off in the sea and gets annoyed when i say i dont want to. i then give in.

• we go to the beach for the day and he asks why i havent packed my make up because we were stopping at a nice bar on the way back. i said i didnt feel like wearing make up on the beach or taking it with me in the heat. he said "dont you want to look nice in the bar?" I then asked if he was suggesting i didnt look ok without make up. he immediately reared up and said i was sensitive, dramatic and causing an argument and that he was "only trying to help." i then got upset at his reaction and he says "here come the waterworks."

• he offered to pay for a fake tan and wax for me. i said i didnt want a fake tan and would go for a wax but didnt want it all off. he then said most women would and he would like that. i said do you not like me as i am and as above, he then calls me sensitive and a drama queen looking for an argument. i try to explain that i just feel like he doesnt think i am good enough, he then calls me insecure and says he doesnt care what i do or whether i have a wax, and that he is just telling me his preference. this happened on repeated occasions.

• asked me why i dont have a specific type of bag that "most girls have and like." i had no idea what he was talking about and that seemed to make him see me as someone who wasnt as womanly as he wanted. (im really girlie and into handbags but was quite happy with the one i had!).

• would pressure me into not using condoms because it felt better. i understood he felt this way and he would sometimes use condoms but always made a point that it wasnt as good with them as without. i know that is a man thing and he was right about the feeling but he always made a big deal out of it.

• if we ever argued he would suddenly give me silent treatment and act like i didnt exist, quite literally. i could be crying in front of him and he would say i was pathetic and not tell me why he wasn't speaking. this could sometimes happen out of the blue if he was upset with something at work etc.

• when we were away once, we had a drink then walked past a hat shop. he told me i looked great in a hat. the following night we walked past another similar shop and i went in and was trying them on, he said "come on let's go, you look shit in a hat." this was said in a joking tone, and when i said that's not very nice, did you mean that, he said ffs of course i didnt, i told you yesterday you looked great in one. maybe thats me being sensitive.

• i had a leak in my house and i was worried about what had happened to the flooring. he said he was sick of talking about it and that if he deems something not important/not an issue then he doesnt engage with someone about the issue. i said what if its something im worried about though - he said if he thinks it is nothing then he cant be arsed and that was just how he was. he seemed unhappy generally that day so maybe he didnt mean that and was just having a bad day.

• never apologised for anything ever. used to say his mum never apologised to his dad, this was apparently something to be proud of.

in the end i had so much resentment because if i ever questioned him on things he had said, he would instantly call me insecure, a drama queen and sensitive and tell me i was causing an argument. i definitely did get upset now and then, and looking back, if i had said nothing and just let these things go then we wouldnt have argued about such things. that is just a fact. and it makes me wonder if i do have issues where i am sensitive and a drama queen. there were times when i definitely did question him and how he felt, based on the little criticisms he made (at least i felt like he was being critical, and maybe he wasnt at all). i feel so confused by it all.

add to all of it, he did some lovely things. bought me things and was generous, could be comforting at times if he wanted to be. it makes me think it was therefore down to me. if i hadnt reacted to anything and just taken his comments as him trying to help, then we wouldnt have argued.

head is in a spin. need some brutal, honest advice so i know where i am going wrong in future.

i keep thinking i was just as bad though - i did get upset and on some occasions when i felt stronger/more assertive, i would be angry and actually get cross, saying things like "if you think that little of me or youre not happy with how i am then why are we together?"

i also said sometimes that nobody had ever spoken to me like he had in a previous relationship and i wasnt used to these sorts of comments. he would then tell me it was abusive for me to compare him to other people. and i have read on this thread people who said their partners compared them and we all agree that isnt nice. so maybe i was just as bad.

these thoughts just keep spinning round...i am so grateful to be able to talk this over, thank you xx

This is typical of narcissistic behaviour and all the nice things you remember him doing for you, was a way of reeling you in and keeping you there for him to control and abuse.

After all if he had been as nasty and demanding all the time with no ‘nice’ bits you would walk away sooner. So the ‘caring’ moments were all part of his bigger picture.

If you’d stayed and, worse still, became pregnant these caring moments would have decreased and the abuse increased. Not apologising is pathological behaviour. He doesn’t apologise because he things he is never wrong. That issue alone is incredibly dangerous as it means he can treat you however he likes and see nothing wrong in his behaviour. This includes covert rape, physical abuse (you made him do it) and financial and emotional abuse.

i keep thinking i was just as bad though - i did get upset and on some occasions when i felt stronger/more assertive, i would be angry and actually get cross, saying things like "if you think that little of me or youre not happy with how i am then why are we together?"

This is your defence mechanism kicking in after being treated so badly.

You probably found yourself asking yourself "If HE thinks so little of me, why are we together?". When you couldn't find the answer to that yourself, you then presented it to him for him to try and answer/rationalise etc. It was your intuition telling you that this relationship wasn't healthy and you were trying to circle the square.

No it's not nice to compare but when someone is abusive, it makes you questioning every fibre of your being. You'll ask yourself "is it me?" Then you find a reasonable argument as to why it couldn't possibly be you because you've only had these problems with this one person. No one else has made you feel this awful. It's just another way the abuser has power over you. They've made you question your own self-belief. Clever, huh?

You know what Lizze. I am strong today. Stronger than I was a few years ago. A few years ago I would have felt the same as you... is it me, what can I do to make things better, where did I go wrong etc because that's exactly what I was like with my ex and even after all his abuse and projection, he dumped me. It cut like a thousand knives.

If ANYONE was to try the same bullshit with me now, simply put I wouldn't let them. I would walk. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asserting yourself when it's justified. You weren't doing it to be spiteful, malicious or hurtful. You did it because you were hurting and knew something was wrong. Please don't question yourself about why you felt the need to assert yourself and why you felt cross. I would be fucking dining if anyone treated me like you describe. You reacted to the shit you were dealt. Nothing more, nothing less.

Please go easy on yourself.

Birdonawire is spot on

Previous post, meant to put fucking fuming, not dining

thank you for the messages and for taking the time to help me deal with what has happened.

all these messages make sense, and i can partially see it all. i just have moments (like now) where i am overwhelmed with guilt and remembering all the lovely things he did.

someone mentioned the leak above and how he wasnt interested in talking about it. i had found out on holiday (call from neighbour) and he did talk about it for a couple of minutes, i think he was just irritated that i wanted to discuss it when, in his words, there was nothing we could do while we were away anyway. and that was true, i probably panicked and took that out on him. im not even sure what i can expect from someone or if i expected too much. i just dont know.

I was in this exact same relationship. He showered me with thoughtful gifts and wonderful holidays and we ate out all the time. To the outside world I was the luckiest girl in the world. He bought me beautiful clothes and expensive perfumes. We were together for years. Because it took years to realise he was coercively controlling me. As lovely as I thought our relationship was I always had that niggle in the back of my mind that something wasn't right. He was always belittling me and picked on little things I did like even criticising my laugh. I felt like I was on edge all the time. After I left him I felt like total shit about it for YEARS despite him immediately replacing me with a much younger version of myself and GUESS WHAT?! He bought her the same clothes/same perfume/same hotels/restaurants even the exact same first date! Trust me you will feel bad about it for a while yet as your default setting is to think of the good times, but you trusted your gut feelings which were right. Men like that ain't shit honey. You will find someone better, promise.

Oh and I should mention I found out later he did the same to his girlfriend before me. I didn't mention all the other horrible shit like isolating me from all my friends and family and making me become completely reliant on him whilst telling me I was useless and had no friends. I'm so unbelievably happy now it does get better.

thanks. it is just so hard to get my head around. i WAS angry with him and upset with him, but on the back of his little comments that i just couldnt understand. and even then, i would ask calmly what he meant and it was then when he would tell me i was causing an argument/drama that i would retaliate.

i feel like i made so many excuses for him - thinking he had problems and needed my support, and at the start he always wanted me around even when i felt it was too much, and then he throws it back in my face. he did the exact same with his ex and i didnt listen.

i know i need to get over it and move on. im just astonished that someone could have been so fake with me. there was obviously no real love there, i was totally taken in. he was ALL over me initially. i hate what he has done to me, i am broken and now have to pick up these pieces all over again. it's hard.

You shouldn't feel bad (although you will. After all you are not a narcissist!) it's part of their conditioning to make you feel that way. You will be fine. The best form of revenge is success (even if he never gets to see it, it's still satisfying...that's what I did!)

It's the hardest! I had a full on nervous breakdown and couldn't leave the house or speak to anyone even by text, so you're doing better than me! But I promise you will come out of it wiser. And you will thrive. You need this period of mourning. Just remember you are mourning the loss of a relationship that was in your head. Trust me he won't be thinking of you. Keep that in mind. It hurts but it helps.

An ‘abusive man’ generally is only abusive to his partners and is often perceived as ‘normal’ by everyone else in his life. He will often only abuse his partner behind close doors. And I include emotional abuse in this.

This was my Ex, although now it's been a year since I left, his true colours are coming out to most people.

OP, when you write about your ex accusing you of making things into a dram, ignore this. You weren't, you really weren't.

This was just him trying to shut you up when you were reasonably wanting to talk about things.

You were most definitely in an abusive relationship and I agree with all PP.

I don't mean to overstep but I think you need some counselling specifically to help you unpick this and ensure you are not vulnerable to a future narcissist after all this trauma and the mind fuck it's left you with. After everything you've been through it would be awful to repeat the cycle and not see the idealise-devalue pattern at first glance.

thanks for the replies. i agree i need counselling. i need to understand why i let him into my life and for so long.

nobody would have any idea what he was like with me, yet i expect he will make me out to have been difficult and crazy. thats hard to deal with though i know i shouldnt care what people think.

You want to be loved and will be loved. You just don’t need this asshole in your life. Someone I know was in this situation, he wanted to control what she wore, what colour underwear (red or black), only dark red lipstick which didn’t suit her, she had to diet and go to the gym every day. He alienated all her family and said she spent too much on birthdays, even cards. The stress bought on multiple sclerosis, he then insisted she work rather than rest. Don’t be this girl

i dont feel like he was that bad though, he just made various comments, he didnt actually MAKE me do things. he never controlled my money or anything like that.

the underwear thing... he always went on about that but never MADE me wear it, doesnt force me to. i just felt under pressure about it but ultimately i didnt have to wear it.

He can't MAKE you do anything but he still put you under pressure to do so. Sounds coercive to me

is pressure abusive though or controlling? maybe i was too sensitive to it - it wasnt like i was forced to do things or scared for my safety.

Depends on context. But given yours I'd say yes it's abusive.

Yes. You exposed your breasts in public when you didn't want to because you gave in. He nagged you to wear make up when you didn't want to. If you had been with him any longer it would get gradually worse.

Oh and he risked your health by not wanting to use condoms and belittled your justified feelings. Coercive control is a crime in this country now. He is a textbook coercive controller.

They never 'make' you do anything. They just go on and on and on about it until you are fed up/brainwashes/want a quiet life and just do it anyway. These are the most pathetic specimens of mankind. Do t look back. You will find a man one day who will want to know about your leaks and either fix it or book a plumber so you can be happy.

Abusers are always nice some of the time. The acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is zero.