Will someone help me to understand whether this is a toxic relationship? Warning: long.

[Toxictroubles]

It's not about a partner, it's my mother.
I'm in my late 30s and things have come to a head, and I'm frozen with anxiety. I'll try to give a general outline of what things are like.

As a child, I walked on eggshells. She would hit at random- once I spilt a cup of tea on her, and she slapped my legs. When my dad pulled her up on this she said "she hurt me, so I hurt her". I was about 10 at this point. Another time she slapped me round the face in the street- I was 14. My crime was to have said a word she didn't like. Not a swearword, but she had a list. I never knew what was on the list until I said them.
These are just two examples. My whole childhood I was on tenterhooks- her mood dictated all.

As an adult, she criticises everything. My weight, my house, my parenting. If you try to be positive she turns it round. So I'll be chatting and say, 'I took DS1 for a hair cut' and she'll respond by saying, 'thank god for that, he looked dreadful'.

Every happy occasion she causes a fuss. She'll insist on helping, because I'm clearly too useless to get anything organised, and then shout about it. During my wedding I was unwell for a short while- I was pregnant and had a really bad leg cramp...my DH and my aunt helped me out of the room and my DH was helping me to stretch it out. It sounds so trivial but I was in immense pain. My mother came out, asked what was wrong, rolled her eyes and went back to the party. Now I know that's a small thing but wouldn't any other mother be the one to stay for 5 minutes to check that you were ok? I was back in the room 10 minutes later. It wasn't a huge thing, but it's stuck with me.

When I was in labour with my first baby I had a really dreadful time- 2 and a half hours pushing. She kept telling me to 'just bloody push properly so we can all go home'.

She goes on about not seeing me enough, but only wants me around on her terms. I'll invite her to places, she is not interested. I've stopped inviting her for meals here because she'd act like she was doing me a favour by coming, then criticise my house, then go as soon as possible. I invite her on days out with the kids, she's not interested. But then I hear that I don't make enough effort.

Thanks if you've read to here. Now, here's the problem. If it was just the above it would be straightforward, but there's another side to her. She's incredibly generous. Always buying things for me and my DD (not so much my boys, although she'll slip them money.) She has bought me more than one car. She spends hundreds at Christmas. On the flip side of this, she ignores my DH's birthday, for no reason at all.

She tells me she loves me. When she's had a drink she tells me I'm a wonderful person. Her friends say she's proud of me.

I just can't fathom it. We've had a row where she basically rang me and shouted abuse then hung up. I read loads on here about toxic parents and I'd made my peace with the fact that she is one of them. I'm finally ready to step back and cut contact now, but I'm terrified that I'm wrong. What if it's me that's unbearable to live with? Toxic parents don't show love, do they?

I apologise for this being so long. If anyone has managed to read to the end I would be grateful for your thoughts.

She definitely sounds toxic to me.
How do you feel when you've spent time with her?
Maybe see her less.

Deal with your own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) here through therapy by finding a therapist you can properly work with. Such people are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

Its not you who is toxic here, its your mother and she is not worthy of the term.

Its also not your fault she is like this, you did not make her that way. You are not the unbearable one to live with, why did that thought ever pop into your head?. That is probably due to the FOG you are still in re her.

She is also not above using money here to buy your affections; that is also highly manipulative behaviour on her part and another example of her abusive nature. Also she is ignoring your H and your boys. She has fundamentally not changed since your own childhood. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up (where is your dad now?) and she is a crap example of a grandmother to your children as well. Such people really do not change and such people as well do not have friends; people like your mother use and manipulate people for their own ends).

Would also suggest you post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

Everything Attila says!

Generally I feel frazzled after I see her.
I read back my post and honestly, it doesn't tell even half of it.

I worry about giving details of specific events but on a general level, nothing I ever do is good enough. I got 11 GCSEs above C, and while everyone of my friends was being taken out for a meal, I was being treated like I'd failed because it wasn't all As. I got 1 A. This was not praised, it simply served to prove that I could get an A if I tried, therefore proving I was lazy with the other subjects. But in truth, if I'd got all As then I'd have been asked why they weren't A, and if they'd all been A then I'd have been told 'well your bedroom is still a shit tip'.

I feel like I'm just rambling now really. Sorry.

She’s abusive.
Tell her to shove her money and gifts and go low contact.
I won’t say no contact because from what your saying I don’t think up ur ready for that yet.

No you are not rambling Toxictroubles

Everything that you write re your so called mother is fully indicative of what a toxic parent would do and or say even down to the criticism of your exam results. If you scored 95% percent she would always be asking you about the other 5%. Nothing is ever good enough for them.

I would also look into raising your boundaries markedly with regards to her. Would you have tolerated any of this from a friend, probably not. Your mother is no different.

Sound like my dm - right down to treating my dd better than the ds's.
Been nc for 18 years.
Truly blissful.
Your dc DO NOT need a toxic dgm.

I'm not sure I'm ready for no contact, but I need to find a way of dealing with her. I'm making myself ill with the stress of it.

Another thing is that you can't tell her anything negative. I was having a really stressful time at work a few years ago, and it made me ill with anxiety. Every time I saw her she would cry, and say she couldn't bear to see me in this state, and how was she meant to cope? I'd spend my time comforting her, and promise to get it sorted so she didn't have to worry about me any more. (Obviously a big part of my problem at the time was that I couldn't magically fix it, if I could have, I would have.)

She once bought me an expensive dress from abroad. I did not ask for it. I actually tried to talk her out of it. When I was summoned round to try it on, it didn't fit. I'm overweight.
She shouted at me that I was an ungrateful cow for not wearing it. I physically couldn't get it on-it wasn't just a squeeze.

This is very cathartic.

I think life is often less straightforward than people being 100% horrible. Someone can be generous but exacting, negative and critical, or feel love but be too fucked up to act in a loving way.

Does she use her gifts to manipulate (e.g. "I bought you that car and you don't even come visit")?

It sounds like going lower contact would be helpful for you and your family.

Porpoises, you seem to have her sussed! I do not doubt she loves me. She had a difficult upbringing herself-her siblings are all very similar to her. Aggression is what they know, and how they interact.

The gifts are often used to control me- when I had the car she bought, it was very much her car. She'd be horrified if it was messy etc.

She absolutely is toxic. Now you have your own kids, imagine treating them like you're being treated.

Thanks for all the replies by the way, I am listening.

Maybe in a weird way she does love you but is somehow incapable of showing it in a proper way so tries to make up for it with gifts. What was her relationship with her own parents like? What about your father, is/was he about?

Nothing excuses how she treats you though. Have you read the narc mothers thread? Here's the ink below if you haven't, might be worth reading/posting on there as lots of people will understand what you've gone through.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3326437-Tell-me-your-narc-dms-most-outrageous-stunts

Cross posted oh that explains it then, doesn't excuse it though obviously.

I'm.not sure. Exmil is very generous but it's a way of being the centre of attention rather than generosity.

Any occasions not organised by her and where she's not the centre if attention she manages to ruin or has a good try.

Your mother is toxic and possibly a narracist.

Sounds exactly like mine. I was slapped as a child. Nothing was ever good enough. I don’t remember being given any praise. Wasn’t allowed friends round. I was afraid of her. Still am and i’m In my 40’s. When my dear dad died (who looking back tried to protect me). I got told off for crying and was told I had nothing to be upset for he was her husband.

Like your mum to the outside works she’s wounderful. Does lots of charity work and is generous (with her money). But a tell take sign is she now has few friends and none of her own or my dads family keep in touch with her (she’s fallen out with them all).

12 months ago I went NC with her. I got engaged and she didn’t even acknowledge it. In fact the only acknowledgement was a snide comment to my OH about how I ‘need to be controlled’. A number of friends / boyfriends over the years has commented that my mum isn’t very nice to me and that was the straw that broke the camels back.

I can’t tell you the relief I feel. I used to dread ringing her, or seeing her. You need to find coping strategies, she won’t change. Good luck.

she made you an anxious person. go lower contact or no contact. if she had bad upbringing you are not in any position to help her, you need help yourself after all the damage she has done to you.
did you have any counselling about this?

Have sent you a PM.

A couple of people have asked about my dad. He's still with her.
I have a great relationship with him. He's always been the peacemaker. His own relationship with her isn't great- she treats him similarly to how she treats me. Worse possibly. They've talked about splitting a few times but it's not happened so far.

He adores his grandchildren- very much invests his time rather than gifts. He picks my youngest up from school once a week, he picked them all up when they were at primary school. He buys cake and plays with them. Listens to their chatter, takes an interest in their hobbies. Plays Xbox when they show him how! Has a cuppa waiting for me when I get in. If she's busy, he stays for tea. But often he has to rush off. She's very controlling- he has to be at home cooking dinner. It has to be ready the second she walks through the door. She criticises his cooking always, it's never good enough. He's not allowed to be sat on the sofa when she gets in. He's lazy, she says. He works a physical job, and earns loads, despite working shorter hours than her. He does loads of DIY and stuff, and his share of the housework. So he's not a lazy man.

Oh I wondered if maybe your father had left and she was sort of blaming you or something but obviously that's not the case. It seems from other things you've said that maybe it's to do with her own childhood issues then, but like I said that in no way excuses her behaviour towards you and your Dad.

As someone who is NC with family, I say if she is having a negative impact on your life then get rid. Difficult though as you have a great dad - I had the same, lovely dad with horrible mum and always wondered why he didn't leave her, but that generation just didn't do that. Yours sound as if they are not particularly elderly, so it is sad to see a couple where one is miserable and under the thumb. Would he suffer the consequences if you go NC or low contact with your mum? Could you pluck up the courage to tell her why - with both of them listening?

I have to disappear for a short while, as I have a friend coming round.

But I am really grateful for your replies. Please keep them coming, they are helping immensely. I'll be back later.

My friend has a similar Mum and she has managed to rework their relationship. Friend tolerated nothing from her Mum will just walk out of her house the moment anything unpleasant comes out of her Mum's mouth - this was after years of v v v low contact. She then ignores all histrionics etc.

Is he really a great dad though; he has really failed to protect you as his daughter from the excesses of his wife's behaviour. He has chosen to remain with her for his own reasons. But you ultimately do not have to follow suit and remain in contact with your mother or father for that matter.

He gets what he wants out of their relationship and is still with your mother. Their relationship seems to be a classic example of codependency at its worst. He is also her enabler here and has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

He is her enabler, I know that. He is a good dad though. You'd have to know him I suppose. I think people would be more sympathetic towards him if their genders were reversed, iyswim. He's in an abusive relationship too.

Anyway, I'm sort of at breaking point today. I've got a banging headache. And I feel just on the edge of tears. I've been wondering whether to go to my GP...I was diagnosed with anxiety a few years ago, but I chose not to take meds, I worked on changing my situation instead, and natural methods of relaxation. This helped a lot. But now...I don't know. I am wondering if the gp could give me something more immediate- valium or something. I've heard of this when someone goes through a trauma. But I'll feel very silly explaining that the traumatic event is basically a row with my mum. But I have a definite feeling that I'm not quite well.