Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here!

[picklemepopcorn]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Electra I think the posts point to narcs on the non AS side. Maybe we're all just too used to significant people in our lives not treating very well. Perhaps that's why it takes so long to recognise? We've just normalised a certain amount of bad or difficult behaviour.

I posted on the previous thread that AS can come over as narcs principally because they can't see other peoples point of view. A narc of course may be able to see, just isn't interested.

I brought up Narcissism, Electra. I know DH is not a narcissist. My mum however is. I wondered if my upbringing predisposed me to have a different set of expectations from a relationship. I look back on boyfriends and realise that they were all quite self absorbed and not particularly interested in my experience of our relationship. As long as I stayed, that is.

Exactly what pickleme said: narcs and people with Aspergers are most definitely not the same. No question. The coping methods for those intimately involved with them can be similar.

My narc mother's requirement that I be subservient to her needs and have none of my own prepared me to accept being in a relationship with someone who can't understand I would have any, to the point where I simply can't.

Thing is, some people just aren't very nice people. Whether they are NT or ND. As a woman with Aspergers I have been on the receiving end of a lot of abusive treatment from partners over the years because I often freeze and don't know how to respond when someone treats me badly. And also because of my AS I can't identify my own feelings (v common in people on the spectrum - 'Alexithymia'). I can be 'passive' in relationships because I don't know how to react and it can take days or weeks to process my emotions.

None of this means that I am saying your experiences with your DHs who have AS aren't real. It's just that to a lay person reading this thread they might think that people on the spectrum all make horrible partners. And are all dogmatic and selfish. Whereas it's an overall complex issue. But as I said about my own ex DH who I'm sure also has AS, I do identify in him a lot of what you are all describing.

But the point is that living with someone who has grown up undiagnosed and was undiagnosed at the time of marriage IS horrible. Once there's an understanding in the person with Aspergers that not everyone thinks like them (the whole issue with not having theory of mind) that they can't understand alone because the condition means that's exactly what they can't see, there's a chance for things to be different (if they choose).

For people who grew up with the diagnosis or who enter a relationship with it and tell their partner, that's totally different. That situation is less likely in the over 25s though, who given the length of relationships mentioned on this threads, are not the posters.

And as for being lovely or not, sure, there are nice and less nice people everywhere. I'm not sure anywhere on the two threads so far has anybody said all people with Aspergers are horrible and all people without it are nice. The behaviour displayed by people with undiagnosed (or diagnosed who don't want to even attempt to understand others) Aspergers is not reduced because there are so-called NT people who are abusive (to anybody). The impact of their behaviour is massive on their long term partner, regardless of how awful other people are.

That is the point of these threads.

You're right Electra, it does sound horrid. It's a very difficult situation for all those involved. Hopefully going forward most people significantly affected will be diagnosed before they find their partner.

What makes it particularly difficult is that the partners we're talking about are not narcissists, they aren't nasty people, we can't blame them for the ways that we mismatch. That makes it hard.

I too have a Narc mother. Thankfully no contact now. I think there is something to be said for coping mechanisms and limited expectations. I more or less accept how DH is though I’m not always happy about it. It’s mostly the anxieties that he has that then can erupt in stressful behaviour and anger. Narc mother was another kettle of fish entirely though. Physically violent, mentally and emotionally abusive, cruel and manipulative just for the hell of it.
DH is none of these things; his behaviour has an explanation.

Electra I'd be really interested in learning more about your difficulties in understanding your own feelings; I think DW struggles with this.

Big row tonight: she cannot understand why she has to behave differently in someone else's house to her own.

'The behaviour displayed by people with undiagnosed (or diagnosed who don't want to even attempt to understand others) Aspergers is not reduced because there are so-called NT people who are abusive'

What behaviour are you talking about though? Because people with Aspergers are all different. The diagnosis itself is based upon communication and socialisation difficulties. But it certainly does not follow that every person with AS has difficult behaviour or is difficult to live with.

Dafta - sure I'd be happy to try to give you a perspective if it would help.

I do think my self awareness is pretty good. But I was diagnosed as an adult, not a child.

The things that cause conflict in terms of my AS and my relationships are my lack of organisational skills (because of my poor executive functioning) and my communication can go off track sometimes causing confusion and worry.

I am able to accept that other people think differently from me but I do often feel like an alien.

Electra: But it certainly does not follow that every person with AS has difficult behaviour or is difficult to live with.

Indeed, but THIS thread is about managing when a partner's ASD is difficult to live with.

The people whose relationships are rattling along nicely, unaffected by a partner's ASD, are elsewhere!

In the interests of agreeing that everyone with ASD is different, my DH is über organised. I am the less well organised one.

Like you, His communication goes off track, in that he doesn't realise he needs to communicate a lot of the time.

Yes I completely understand what you are saying pickle of course.

My ex dh had many behaviours that I can identify with. He still wouldn't acknowledge that he has AS. He was so unmovable in his opinions that it had a bad effect on my wellbeing. And when I fell out of love with him as a result it was all projected as being my fault. If I tried to talk to him sometimes he would simply say 'shhhhhhh' and then walk off. When we were trying to name our children I would make suggestions, all of which he would reject but suggest none of his own. He could have flu but he wouldn't tell me. So I'd be wondering why he was lying in a room unable to get up. When our daughters were little the oldest one was doing an ABA programme (since she's severely autistic) which meant that dd2 and I spent our lives living in an upstairs bedroom even though we could well afford a bigger house and he refused to move because he didn't want to spend more money. I could go on and on! He has an IQ of 150 and therefore thinks he knows better than everyone.

So yeah, I do understand how it can be. In my own case I am aware of my limitations so I try to think about things like communication but occasionally I fall short because it doesn't come naturally to me. One of my daughters is NT and it's a total mystery to her that certain noises or sensations make me anxious.

Oh Electra, naming the children! Yes! All DH could say was 'no', it drove me mad!
In fact, he's generally incredibly cautious and no is his default response in most situations.

Electra I think because you have a diagnosis and you are very self aware you should be much better placed than someone who is not. DW certainly is very self absorbed but not very self aware.

I would say I’m more like Electra I’m that I have poor boundaries, often don’t know what people are meaning and find it hard to say no, I’ve always been easily manipulated in the moment - in hindsight it becomes clear as I replay conversations. My mum is selfish and has a habit of saying hurtful things (laughing off my salary and pay rises as trivial despite not having worked outside the home for 40ish years), about my weight and looks as a kid - she’s not a narc though and she does care about me, she’s often bad in the moment and will never say the right thing but good overall.

The person commenting on asking for help and being treated badly upthread - I’m glad you are distancing, I always feel reproached for any bit of help wrt kids and often do get actively reproached at the next point when DH is grumpy. I worry he portrays me to his work colleagues as some sort of incompetent he has to keep saving, whereas the crazy part is he does very little most of the time.

My ex husband of 24 years had/has undiagnosed Aspergers (our son has full blown Aspergers). Despite being a very gentle man and a seemingly ok dad, as he got older, he became more reserved, never coming to parties or balls or weddings etc. Sex life was rubbish and I could never put my finger on why....until.... he came out as a transvestite. I had NO idea for 24 years that his hobby fixation was not trains, fossils or collecting antique thunderbirds puppets, but was instead my underwear, stocking and dresses!
I can joke about it now that we are divorced (for other reasons) but at the time, it hit me like a tonne of bricks. I do often wonder if had he not been an Aspie (and incredibly introverted), he may have been able to tell me earlier on in our marriage and we could have "perhaps" managed to incorporate his need to be dressed as a women into our relationship.
Living with Aspies is hard work, then again, it's also hard for people living with spouses who have addictions, DV problems or even PMS....

I think as more people get diagnosed and hence the more understanding they/we have the better things should be. I suspect though that as AS is a genetic condition that there will a lot of middle aged folk without a diagnosis who also had difficult childhoods because a parent was also undiagnosed and behaved badly. I know this is true for DW.

Electra - but Aspergers isn't just about communication or socialisation. It's about not having theory of mind. The communication and socialisation are more like symptoms if that and certainly ones that can be measured. It's virtually impossible for someone who cannot truly grasp that other people think and experience things differently to them (the group of people with Aspergers I was referring to - late or ignored diagnosis, never mind pre diagnosis) to have behavior that is easy for their partner who does have theory of mind. How that manifests behaviour-wise will certainly be different as everybody is different. It would be unlikely that it is empathic, accepting and facilitating/nurturing of the other person's differences and generally flexible. Maybe in some cases, but it's a) highly unlikely and b) not what this thread is for.

But this is again a situation where someone with Aspergers comes on the thread, picks up a loophole in wording to point out "not all people with Aspergers are like that" and then talk about themselves. If you have good self awareness that's great. That will make some aspects of your life easier, but if you truly think that not all people with Aspergers are the same, why should your experience be any more relevant or important than those of the people we live with? Or of our experience of them?

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh - and I know it is - but this pattern is something I deal with on a highly frequent basis in my daily life, incidentally from someone who would also come on a thread like this and say he has a good level of self awareness. As would his father and other of his relatives. Hence why I'm on this thread. Self awareness isn't only about knowing yourself, it's about that and knowing yourself in relation to others. None of the people in my intimate nor extended family really get that. Maybe you do get that, in which case again, good for you and your relationships.

This is a good point Dafta.

I realised I was autistic after years of not fitting in, being in abusive relationships and having spells in psychiatric wards having been wrongly diagnosed as bipolar. I sought a diagnosis myself. And when I was finally assessed the people who diagnosed me said they were in no doubt at all that I'm autistic.

I'm sure my dad has autism - I do believe it's mostly genetic. He was a very distant parent who had no time for me.

Daft totally agree. I also think it's important to factor in when statistics come out saying there are increasing numbers of people with ASD. Given that it wasn't really diagnosed until recently, i don't know how they can say it's increasing. The number of diagnoses are, but there's no way to say that there weren't undiagnosed cases before. My DH can see two generations in his family before him who very likely had Aspergers but there was never a diagnosis. These people certainly exist(ed) though!

Changer

'Self awareness isn't only about knowing yourself, it's about that and knowing yourself in relation to others'

Yes. I realise that. I think it is necessary to point out though that if you've met one person with autism you've met one person with autism. There is already enough misinformation about ASCs. And I object to the idea that there is a link between autism and narcissism. When one is a developmental condition and the other is a personality disorder. You can't post a thread about 'autistic people' and then expect autistic people not to read it and not to have an opinion.

Just having a difficult day with communication today. Every conversation is a struggle.

DS comments every time DH smiles because it's so rare.

Hi Electra I think I might be responsible for mentioning the two term in the same sentence. However I don't see any link between them. Yet again to be on the receiving end can be very similar.

Oh and when I was 'talking about myself' and my own self awareness I did not mean that I know exactly what I'm doing. But I ask people close to me to tell me if my communication is poor and if I keep repeating myself, for example. So what I mean is that I can accept I'm different / don't always fit in. Therefore I rely on people to give me guidance. And I don't have a hissy fit when they do.