MIL feeling second rate

[Akaroacanon]

I read a lot on here about the MIL. It seems to be quite negative a lot of the time and this makes me feel so sad. I’ve also read on gransnet so many stories from heartbroken MIL’s who either do not see their GK’s, or see them under very controlled circumstances.
I’m the mum to two sons. I love them just as much now as all new Young mums love their babies, but of course, with the years our relationship has adapted and there is more wisdom and more space between us. I should explain, they are now grown and recently married, and becoming parents themselves. I sense that that they still feel a strong love for me and want me in their lives, but of course, their wives do not, can not feel the same. So, as a for instance, the mother of the bride goes dress shopping, hen-doing, arrangement planning etc. the mother of the groom is offered a token task. (I made a cake for one, and did some sewing for another.)I think it’s called “managing expectations “. It hurts a little, but it is nothing compared to when the children arrive.
A new grandchild is born, and I feel so much love, and joy, for the happy new parents, relief that all went well with the birth, and gratitude that they have so much love for each other and will be great parents. Then there is a void. I’m not allowed to meet the baby before her mum who is flying in. To protect her feelings. She stays a week. After a few text messages, gently asking if I can just have a five minute peep, I am, I feel, reluctantly, allowed to meet her, and hold her for two minutes, on the promise that I will only stay five minutes as they are tired. I do understand. I understand they need quiet family time, bonding time, settling feeding routine time. I was, after all, a mother too. But her mum is living in their home, I live 5 minutes away. It has been days. They feel like an eternity. I know that this is how it will be. This is not my first grandchild. I bite my tongue, I babysit, I love them, feed them, offer to help when I can. But I will always be a visitor, because I am the mother of sons. Now you might think I am the overbearing type. I’m not. Or the bossy type. Nope. I think I’m quiet, bookish, educated and kind. I am non-judgemental, have a messy, child friendly house where children can run and play and just be. I’m honestly the easiest Granny you could wish for. We do beach trips, cake baking, den building activities. It’s fun. But, I have, and I guess always will have, the lack of daughter syndrome. I have sons, they take care of their wives as I helped them learn to do. So now, I have to take the back seat. I know I should not feel sad, I know I should be ok with it, that’s just normal. But I get sick of being managed. And Christmas again will be with her parents.

Yep, as @Carrotmama says, my MIL would describe herself as you have. To me she's an overbearing, controlling, manipulative cow. Truly awful.

That sounds bad,sorry. I'm not saying you are awful but you've made this all about you and you haven't really said much about your DIL except as breeding vessels. You clearly don't have the relationship with them you would like. Have a think about that and see if you can work on it.

It’s normally the son when it comes to lack of contact but always blamed on dil. I even remember my sil begging me to get dh to go “home” more as since he met me he changed. What changed was that he had someone he wanted to spend more time with than his parents and sister. I told her quite honestly that he was a grown man and I couldn’t force him to do anything even if I wanted too. I think they eventually accepted it but I do think men also blame the dil sometimes too as to not hurt peoples feelings saying actually no I don’t want to do that with you. My dh got caught out with that one at work once when I bumpped into another’s member of staff I had no idea what event I had apparently said he couldn’t go to.

The dils Mum is visiting from aboard I’m sure you will get plenty of time to visit soon but maybe they just don’t want someone else holding the baby all the time and feel that’s all you want to do.

When my mum visited me as a new mother - she wasn’t overwhelmed by the newborn so much; she cared about how I was. She offered to wash up, do laundry, make tea.

MIL arrived and ignored me entirely and wanted to coo at the baby (and hold her for HOURS) while I waited on her hand and foot and tried not to get upset because I just wanted to hold my new baby.

Guess who I prefered having around in the early days...

Based on my ex mil, who I got on well with, I'd say focus on building a relationship with the dil's separate from them being your DIL, mother to your grandchildren.

What do you have in common with them? When you NATURALLY have the opportunity to, have a chat with DIL about things in common, ask how THEY are doing, say they can come to you for a blether any time about anything they like (don't say advice or support as that may imply you judging they're in need of it).

Do little things that DIL will appreciate that don't necessarily benefit your son/grandchildren.

Empathise & sympathise when necessary.

I too think you're focusing on negatives rather than positives. Eg You say one dil's mother flew in following birth of grandchild - that suggests their mother lives a fair distance away, which you means you live nearer and probably see your son & grandchildren more often than dil's mother does. You list a load of fun activities you do with dgc - lots of grandparents don't get to do that, either because they don't live near enough, or they're not fit for it, or they're estranged (sometimes their own fault but not always).

The reason most of the posts are negative is because people with positive relationships with their mil's have no reason to post, they don't need advice or reassurance.

"We MIL’s were once new mums too. We had the same sore bits, swollen bits, tired out and frazzled moments as you" yes - and who did you turn to? In all likelihood YOUR mother, less likely your mil.

I too agree with the misconception that it's dil's fault men see their mothers less when in a relationship. My ex was horrendous for not making the effort with his parents, if anything I probably increased how much he called/visited. Since our divorce he barely has a relationship with his own parents, in part because he made a pigs ear of contact with dd which meant they missed out on seeing her too. But also partly because (totally acceptably) his 2nd wife doesn't see why she should have to constantly remind him to call/see them.

In my case it's my parents who were/are a nightmare! But unusually so (I hope) as I grew up in an abusive, very unhappy home so don't really want much to do with them - which they rail against. My in laws saw my dd first because I felt safer with them.

Yes to maybe op assessing herself differently to how she actually is - my mum is a martyr - she'd tell you my childhood wasn't as bad as I make out, that she is a lovely mum who just had a lot to deal with, that she is easy going, undemanding and helpful. She isn't she's bloody hard work! Helps on her terms only (mainly throwing money at a situation), and whenever I or bro have a problem makes it all about how it's making her life harder. Sis (gc) gets a LOT of support without question - but then also regularly threatens withdrawal of grandchildren if mum isn't playing by her rules.

I wish my MIL was how you describe yourself to be.

I truly have the MIL from hell, but i wouldn’t say she is difficult with me specifically - she is difficult with everyone.

But the general difference I see in successful and unsuccessful relationships between DILs and MILs is whether the communication, even the subtle communication, goes through the son or the DIL.

There are so many MILs who - so as not to make their DIL feel they are overbearing - think they will give their sons information which contains even the remotest opinion / advice on raising baby/Breast feeding / life and expect them (or maybe don’t even expect them) to communicate it in the best way possible for their DIL.

These MILs are under the delusion that their son is some fantastic diplomatic communicator, capable of conveying the exact message with all the emotional subtlety and options and non judgement that they meant. Whereas most men will just say:

“Btw MIL says it’s really bad to give the baby formula, or something.”

“Spoke to MIL today and she gave me the dates she’s coming”

“MIL asked if baby has worn that dress she bought yet and if she hasn’t whether we want her to take it back to the shop”

These are guaranteed to make a particular sleep deprived DIL feel judged/pressured/MIL talking behind their back/ganged up on. And then DILs can hold on to this hurt for years and read other behaviours into it especially if their MIL continues to communicate messages through their diplomat son.

Fufulina is spot on and my mil is actually a lovely person. With my mum it was about her daughter had a baby- she was there for both of us. She never took the baby off me unless asked, she sliced up my steak so I could eat one handed. Mil it was about her sons baby. She relished that I had to go eat dinner so she could hold the baby. No malice, she loves me, but I’m not her daughter while my child is her sons baby.

My MIL was the best! She saw us (usually me and 3 kidos, occasionally my dh) about 5 times a week and was there if we needed anything. The children used to stay about 3 nights a month during term time and loads more in the holidays as they all loved it. She took them out on a Saturday afternoon after her shift at work and generally spoiled them rotten. She became ill, I took her to all of her appointments, advocated for and helped with cleaning and shopping (she lived with a pretty useless husband). She truly was a huge part of all our lives and has left a huge hole that will never heal. We all loved her tremendously

My mum not so much, despite me encouraging her (we love her of course).

fufulina exactly the same. My mother came to visit after my babies were born to take care of me primarily. My MIL and I aren't as close, why would I want her there helping me to the toilet after c-sections.

I agree with a PP who said this sounds more like sadness around not having had a daughter, as you lament no wedding dress shopping, etc.

If the baby is just a few days old you need to calm down and relax. Children grow up and want to know their grandparents, they will build their own relationships with you. I know my MIL had some weird fears that I was keeping my oldest away from her (by breastfeeding and putting her down for regular naps, how dare I). They aren't babies forever but the fact is a newborn baby needs its mother more than anyone else. A 3 year old, 5 year old, etc. will be very different.

I felt so sad for you when I read this, maybe because I am coming up to a similar age myself. I do thank goodness that I have a daughter as well as a son everyday as I know (DH is one of three boys) that boys very often are not the same as girls with this kind of relationship.

You sound lovely, just keep doing what you are doing. You have the advantage of being closer geographically to your son that his wife does her mother.

Your sons are conforming to social expectations in terms of how they support their wives at this time. MN is pretty clear on this topic.

Exactly the same here as Fufulina. Nine years on, it's still the same. My DM when she visits will offer to wash up or lay the table or put the kettle on, as well as play and read and snuggle with her DGD. My MIL sits there expecting to be waited on and she expects her DGD to be presented to her, like she was as a baby. Expect now DGD is nine she struggles to relate to MIL because she doesn't like being a show piece and MIL makes no attempt to talk to her about school or her friends or her hobbies. She just wants to fuss over her without having a meaningful relationship. It's bizarre.

I've seen numerous posts on here that say once a man is married or in a relationship he doesn't need his mother just his partner. Doesn't seem to apply to women though.

I'd speak to your son and tell him how hurt you are. There are some lovely DILs out there but there appear to be many many more that aren't and believe their husbands family is dispensable.

I realised that year that I was doing all the relationship building with my MIL and I was tired and busy, and it was extra wifework that I did not ask for. So I left it to my husband this year and we haven’t seen her since Christmas!!! I feel awful about this, it’s not how relationships work in my side of the family but he hasn’t asked her to visit/arranged some dates for us to visit and she hasn’t either (I’ve even given my husband dates of convenient weekends) but nada. She probably feels I’m a terrible DIL but it’s her relationship with her son which is the problem.

It amazes me that anyone, family or not, would feel entitled to visit new parents and baby within the first fortnight after birth. Some people of course will welcome visitors within hours of the birth, but many people just want private time to bond with the baby.
DIL might be feeling vulnerable, depressed, in pain, anxious about the baby, or she might be having difficulties in establishing feeding, she might have mastitis, or breast discomfort that means sitting round topless, she might be bleeding heavily, have a painful or infected episiotomy wound, or be suffering from urinary or fecal inconvenience. And she is perfectly entitled to her privacy and choice about who she sees throughout her recovery.
Even if she has a good relationship with her IL's, she's not necessarily going to feel comfortable sharing this time with them. I'd much rather discuss my haemorrhaging uterus with my own mother (despite not getting on too well with her) than my MIL.
I'm not sure that I hear too much concern for the feelings of the new parents in OP's post....

The amount of vitriol being spouted at the OP for wanting to meet her sons child and feeling sad that she has missed out on life experiences due to never having a daughter is quite shocking. Her post came across as very compassionate and understanding but so many posters are trying to suggest the OP is either being narcassist because her post comes from her perspective (almost every post on here does so is every poster a narcissist?) Or she must be overbearing and have done something wrong.

boxsets.

Likely because of how we are raised to fit with gender stereotypes, but less women are willing to do all the wifework now.

Mum always washed his clothes/cooked his dinner/delt with appointments/family gatherings etc

Man moves out into place with gf/partner/wife and again man expects the new women of the house to do all this.

I refuse to be the one doing it all so I leave his relationship/gatherings with his family upto him and as such they don’t really happen.

He asked me when a family members of his birthday is the other day, I have no bloody idea, thankfully it was easy to find out on social media but he expected I would have it on my calendar but he hadn’t bothered to put it on his. He even expected me to book his hair dressing appointments which can be done via text or before you leave. He finally does it now after having to wait too long for a hair cut because I’m not his PA.

Carrottmama and Sharplilly, there is nothing in the op to suggest the poster is overbearing, she comes across as being considerate and compassionate. You two in the other hand seem determined to put the boot in and paint her as something she's not. I'm sorry your relationships with your MIL's is so bad but maybe if you weren't so quick to jump to huge conclusions and attack people it would be better.

OP you sound lovely and caring and I am sorry you feel like this. I imagine my MIL felt a bit like this too. But the thing is. After having a baby, you feel physically bartered and exhausted and vulnerable and not really up to meeting people. Under any other circumstance I highly doubt you would be expected to see visitors in that emotional and physics states which can last days. So for me, it wasn’t about ‘meeting the baby’ it was about my recovery. No I don’t want MIL and FIL and other people coming to see me whilst I have a catheter and haven’t had a bath for several days and am bleeding and sore and tearful. No one wants visits when they are like that. Unfortunately they just want their mum (if they have a good relationship with her). And as kind and lovely and non judgemental as you sound, I still don’t want ANYONE seeing me like that if it can help it.
It is hard on mums if boys. But not as hard as pregnancy and childbirth age on the ones doing it, and really at that time the ones doing the childbirth and recovery have to be prioritised.

But it does sound like you know that and you sound like a brilliant MIL and so hopefully it’s just a small phase that baby won’t remember in the grand scheme of her childhood and having granny round the corner. Maybe the other granny feels left out that Daughter has come to live near you and so they are trying to manage those feelings as well.

And for what’s its worth, I agree about the wedding stuff. Why did your son not take you suit shopping or include you in helping choose best man or ushers etc. Why was DIL the one who was managing what jobs you were involved in?

My relationship with MIL is nothing like this - but then my mum died before I had DS. I do wonder sometimes if MIL finds that makes things easier (though she is absolutely lovely and would never be glad). I only have DS so I hope I have as good a relationship with my eventual DIL as I feel MIL and I have.

For what it's worth, both my dad and MIL and FIL arrived within a couple of hours after DS was born. I was pretty out of it and couldn't have cared less.

I'm my experience it is natural that MIL tend to miss out on things like dress shopping etc if they don't tto have much of a relationship with their DIL. But the restrictions re grand children only occur when someone has been unreasonable. We never did anything like this with my MIL (although I will admit to not wanting to spend time with her myself, she's been quite horrible to me, but I am happy for her to spend as much time with Dss as she wants, she came to the hospital fist time I gave birth, was the first grandparent to hold both children etc. My FIL on the other hand is categorically unwelcome in our house and is only allowed to spend time with gc supervised due to the way he has treated us. As far as my parents go my mother was never involved in our family in anyway. My father is the preferred grandparent by both myself and DH because he has been nothing but wonderful to all of us (PIL have both been abusive towards DH). If you are in this situation either you got unluckg with unreasonable DILs or you are the unreasonable one yourself. Where everyone is reasonable this kind of thing doesn't happen.

Bumping - mum of teen DD and DS here...

Chill pizza - you are a hard woman. Men forget important dates. My OH turned over in bed last year, his phone had been pinging FB alerts and asked me "Is it your birthday" others had already sent their regards. Yes I was mad, but not surprised. We have children in their thirties he still cannot recall their birthday dates. He would forget his own birthday to be honest. So I organise the cards, but I make him buy the presents.

Ploppy you have reminded me, we did all the wedding stuff to do with groom, best man, ushers, that was fun fitting them out, but I never saw DILs dress until wedding day. Not sure her Mother had any say in it either, she had decided long ago to plump for a Disney wedding dress. Many brides to be do not get their own parents involved, if you live with your husband to be, you tend to do your own thing.

What I did find surprising was how many brides and grooms, saved up for their own weddings rather than parents paying.