I can see both sides to this

[NiceAndBreezy]

Mumsnetters I need your wisdom because I can truly see both sides of this.

I've been with my DP for 10 months, we'd known each other as acquaintances for a couple of years before that through a mutual interest. He has been separated 16 months. We are very much a couple, he stays at mine several nights a week, he's involved in my family life (my teenage DS, my parents, my siblings), we've been on holiday a couple of times and have plans for a future together. All round very happy.

His STBXW didn't want their marriage to end and has been very upset. She is quite close to his brother's wife, they live in the same small town (DP moved away) share a social circle etc. STBXW has tried to exert pressure on DP to return to her via DP's family and mutual friends and I know that DP's SIL has found this very difficult. SIL has come under pressure not just from STBXW but also the friendship circle. SIL has also borne the brunt of STBXW's emotional upset.

STBXW does not know that he has a girlfriend.

I've met DP's DD and her husband a couple of times (DD is not STBXW's daughter) and recently DP suggested to his brother and SIL that we meet up. DP's brother was fine and we did meet but SIL didn't feel that she could as STBXW doesn't know about me and SIL would feel awkward seeing STBXW socially having met me (I think she finds it difficult enough knowing I exist when STBXW doesn't).

My difficulty is this. DP doesn't regard it as any of STBXW's business that he is seeing me (especially as they have no children). I totally get and support this.

I can also see SIL's point of view and respect that. Everyone expects that STBXW finding out would cause significant emotional fallout and I can imagine a scenario where SIL is quizzed about how long she's known, whether she's met me, what I'm like etc. etc.

My concern is how long this situation will go on for. DP has no intention of ever telling STBXW and she is unlikely to find out by chance. They will divorce on the grounds of two years separation next summer so though that might be a watershed it's some way off.

It's OK (if disappointing) for SIL to refuse invitations to occasions I'm going to be at, that's her right. But I can't see anything changing very soon and if I am excluded from their family events for the foreseeable future I'm going to find that very difficult.

DP and I talk very openly and honestly about difficult stuff so I have no problem discussing it with him but I'm struggling with what to say. Is it reasonable to suggest that he should tell STBXW? 'Rip off the plaster' style. Get any palaver out of the way and enable everyone to get on with their lives.

I know he will be worried about the fall out and that she might start to be difficult about their divorce given that she needs to agree to it.

Or should I leave it and see how things work out over the next few months? SIL might come round, STBXW might meet someone else etc. etc.

I don't find uncertainty very comfortable (but I know that's my issue).

You’ve met his dd once, was she aware that you two are together? I.e. was this evident during the meeting? Yes, it was arranged specifically for her and her husband to meet me. DP and I were clearly together, holding hands, being affectionate, talking about things we'd done together and our holiday plans, what my kids thought about him etc etc

OP where is he when he’s not at yours? He lives in a flat share

Can you call him any time of the day or night? Not that you would do so but could you? Yes *

Have you been to his house? Yes

Met any of his friends? Yes, friends that were his originally i.e. from before he and STBXW were together

I’m guessing not as you say that they’re putting pressure on him to go back to his “ex”? Not the friendship group that's associated with his STBXW and of which his brother and SIL are part. He's not very involved with them any more as he's moved away, they are STBXW's support group and she's included in their social events so he declines invitations to anything she will be going to.

I would put money on his not actually having split up with her at all and them perhaps even being on a break but with the idea of getting back together. I can understand why it might sound that way but there's obviously a lot of other context that I'm not posting as it's not been relevant to the discussion.

His response was that he and his ex were no longer together, and given I wasn’t instrumental in their split, they either saw both of us or neither of us but that I didn’t owe anything to his ex. This is how it should be I agree.

But nowhere would it have been tolerated that I be excluded so that he could maintain his ex’s emotional wellbeing. That's essentially what I told him in our long conversation yesterday.

Think very carefully about what you’re setting yourself up for here. His loyalties are to his wife at this stage and not to you. You need to give that some thought before you get too involved. Yes, he needs to demonstrate where his loyalties lie.

Thanks for taking the time to respond in so much detail.

That thanks was to SummerGems

I was just struggling as I don't believe anyone has to tell their ex anything about their new life.

But that's kind of bullshit, isn't it? They're still married. They're still in contact. She might prefer to divorce him for adultery rather than wait 2 years for separation. It's not fair to deny someone information crucial to their decision-making for their own life.

But that's kind of bullshit, isn't it? no, I don't think it is and nor do a lot of others, which you'll see if you're a regular reader of this board.

But I agree that It's not fair to deny someone information crucial to their decision-making for their own life.

Therein lay my dilemma. But anyway, I've come down on the 'she needs to know and he needs to tell her' side and he's agreed with me.

So she did need to know, but it's not bullshit that he didn't have to tell her. Right oh.

Sounds to me as if he hasn't properly made clear to his wife, that the marriage is over. Regardless of if they have DC I'd consider it common courtesy to tell your current spouse that

A you consider the marriage fully dead (I think you need to be prepared to discover that due to his confrontation avoiding tendencies he's said or done something that's led to wife thinking there's a possibility of reconciliation - eg claiming he 'just needs some space for now' or some such - or worse something like 'a part of me will always love you' - I've come across situations like this where the person in your dp's position has just been a coward and unclear in their communications/actions and its led to very messy situations.

B you've met someone new and that relationship is serious.

It's ALSO very unfair to (his sister or sil?) the wife's friend to be put in this position - that's absolutely not on. If I were in this persons position I wouldn't say "I'll tell her as gently as possible" I'd be livid with your dp, tell him to get a spine and tell his wife!

"I don't believe people have an automatic right to knowledge about other people's sex/love lives" but he isn't just 'other people' to her they're still married!

"I'd be wondering why he is so very keen that she doesn't find out" me too - not unheard of for separated married couples to end up keeping shagging. That might be why she thinks there's a chance of reconciliation. Op think you may need to be prepared to learn there's an overlap in when he started seeing you & stopped shagging her.

I too smell a distinctly unpleasant odour - mixture of fish & manure!

"friends that were his originally i.e. from before he and STBXW were together" so only those friends that have a greater loyalty to him, that would likely agree to covering for him, no other friends from since he & his wife got together...

Yea I call bullshit - prepare to discover you are/were the ow.

I don't believe anyone HAS TO tell an ex anything about their life. If there was no ongoing family connection then there would be absolutely no need in DP's case.

I've left long term relationships without feeling compelled to update my ex on my ongoing relationship status - once a relationship is over it's over, end of. Giving people this sort of information can lead to threats, manipulation, attempts to guilt trip, stalking new partners (in real life and online) etc etc. When you're used to sharing everything with someone it's a real change of thought process to stop, to realise that you don't need to tell they stuff that they can use against you, that your life is your own and nobody else's. Sounds like you've never had to experience this and I hope you never do. It's horrible. So yes, I stand by it, it's not bullshit.

No Graphista that's not how it is. But thanks for your interest.

My ex thought he had the right to police my life because we were still married - he didn't.

A you'd be wrong in thinking I don't know who's that's like

B ltr is not marriage, it's not the same.

C I and other pps think it is bullshit.

A. Then I would expect you to understand

B. The ltr I was referring to was a marriage.

C. Not being alone in your opinion doesn't make you right

Oh and the friendship group he shared with his STBXW is based around a religion he doesn't share. That's part of the reason for all the pressure he's received to reconcile.

He's quite content not to be part of it any longer because he's also away from the pressure to convert.

Understanding doesn't mean I have to agree, I had no way of knowing the ltr you were referring to was a marriage. Actually your recent response makes it very clear you're judging all this based on your experience with said ex, hardly objective.

No not being alone in my opinion doesn't make me automatically right but it strongly suggests there's a reason why I and others are thinking similarly - which indicates you may be wrong.

I suspect we've touched a nerve in suggesting his relationship with wife carried on after he moved out (not uncommon), that it was possibly ongoing at least at the start of your relationship with him and may even possibly now be ongoing.

His living in a house share (in his 50's?) also suggests a less than clearly permanent arrangement which if he's not been clear with her I can understand her thinking that means he's not completely given up on the marriage either.

Op why do you keep defending what he's done when you agree it's wrong.

This isn't an act of omission ie he hasn't mete not told her. It's an act of commission ie he had actively taken steps to keep the truth from her, even though that puts his own gf and sil in an untenable position.

That's what's different. And I'm not sure I believe his motives for it all to be honest

He's living in a flat share as the house he has with his ex is not yet sold. It's a lovely large flat in a great area owned by one of the guys living there, all are in their 40's and 50's. Nice and sociable, better than living on your own. I think he intended it to be a stop gap when he first left but he really likes living there.

It's not his fault if STBXW reads anything else into it.

I'm defending the fact that his behaviour doesn't mean what some people are saying.

I've concluded he needs to tell her and its not just my self interest making me think that. I've discussed it with him. He's agreed he needs to tell her and he's going to.

I'm not sure what else there is to say.

He knows he needs to face up to it for the good of everyone involved STBXW, SIL, me and him and he's agreed to act.

Anyway, no more defending. I've already included more info than I intended - I still struggle to rein in my need to explain myself to others!

what will the backlash be?

she cannot leave him or chuck him out again can she?
it seems everyone but her knows, and is accepting so friends and family are not going to be turned against him
will she write him out of her will?? (facetious!)

I do see that really, as you say, it's no ones business how/when/who he moves on with, but she must be told for the sake of closure otherwise you are all going to be tiptoeing around her forever more, and that's going to be fun at his funeral.

I'm assuming posters have RTFT but maybe not.

I came on here to help sort my thoughts and feelings out. I did. I told him I thought he needed to tell her, we discussed it. He agreed and agreed he'd been avoiding it for an easy life but it's not fair on everyone else. He is going to tell her.

He sounds like a bit of a coward. I can see his point if it may rock his divorce a bit, but that's life, and it's a bit weird to have a normal life with your family but pretty much cover you up on his side. What happens from now on will tell you a lot.

I just talked to my DP about this given he was on the other side of this kind of thing, including down to there being religion involved, and his immediate response was that when he and his ex split he shut down any kind of talk of reconciliation very quickly so to make it clear that there was no chance of them getting back together, because there was no chance. Why has your OH not done that to friends and family at least?

Do bear in mind OP that they’d been split for six months before you came on the scene, so he’d had ample opportunity to make it clear to her that it was over even before he got together with a secret girlfriend.

Actually my DP has a friend in very similar situation to your DP. On trial separation from his wife, living separately, and only now after about eighteen months have they decided that the marriage is un-saveable and they will be getting divorced. To my knowledge he hasn’t been seeing anyone in that time but if he had there’s no way he would have felt at liberty to tell his ex about her.

And after eighteen months telling her wouldn’t be a huge ordeal, they’re split after all? Divorce about to be applied for? What’s the issue here?

The reality is that the issue is she doesn’t know that they’re irreconcilably splitting. There can be no other explanation than that. Even if they’re separated on paper, an ex who has no children with someone, who has no relationship with someone any more doesn’t need that level of consideration and thought before telling them that they’ve moved on and are in a relationship with someone else.

To the poster who says she might want to divorce for adultery, she wouldn’t be able to do that if she and the dp had been split for more than six months before he got involved with someone else. And tbh that is just semantics anyway and makes no difference to e.g. the settlement etc so there is little point if the split was genuine.

You've only been in a relationship with this man for 10 months .
I'd say chill a bit and enjoy the early days of your relationship .
It's only my opinion and I respect everyone is different .... but you should still be in he dating stage not meeting every single member of his family circle and making sure his ex w is aware of you .

If he's not comfortable I wouldn't take it personally it will all happen at the right time .
I really hope and plan ( as does he ) for a future with my DP and buy we've only been together 18 months, so enjoying getting to know each other first .
I hope it works out for you really .

@SummerGems thanks for your post. I'm off on holiday today, just finishing packing and getting organised. I didn't want you to think I'm ignoring it but I might not have time to respond today.

@Tinkerbellx Thanks for your post to and your good wishes.

@Tinkerbellx but there is a vast difference between not having met your partner’s friends and family and actively having to take steps to ensure that the ex doesn’t even know you exist.

In my case I never met his family for around eight months due to distance, and it didn’t really need to be a thing anyway. But if he’d said to me that I needed to stay off of facebook because his ex might find out and that they were still friends on there but we couldn’t be massive alarm bells would be ringing for me in terms of how much of an ex she believed she was.

If after sixteen months of separation the ex is still hopeful of them getting back together there are reasons for that. And at the very least, she’s not been told that it’s not going to happen, and there are reasons for that too.

And what happens —if— when he tells her? Is he going to say they’ve been together for ten months or that they’ve just got together? There aren’t any children involved, they don’t live together, so there is nothing she can do if he tells her that he’s moved on. Unless she still believes she’s not an ex in the true sense of the word.