My mother, my husband, the horrible fights. LONG

[DrowsyDragon]

I suspect my husband has a DW problem.

My mum is a very volatile person. She can be the kindest and most generous person. Once when I was rejected for a job I wanted she travelled for three hours to take me out for lunch just to cheer me up. She had an abusive mother though and can be extremely agressive and occasionally violent. My father tends to side with her. For example when I was a teen, particularly if she had been drinking stupid fights would blow out of all control and end up either with her saying extremely harsh things - I am fundamentally selfish, self absorbed and cruel. Or her getting physica - grabbing me, shaking me, standing over me while I plead for her to stop, occasionally hitting me and on one occasion throwing a plate that broke and cut my foot. My father intervened but the following day neither apologise and the attitude seems to be she went too far but I provoked it and I have to look at my behaviour too. I guess I have been kinda conditioned into accepting it.

Things improved massively during my twenties, though she doesn’t like my DH who has been my partner since I was 20. She believes he is rude, anti social and has autism. He is not the best with social occasions and doesn’t like just going along with whatever mum is doing but he does his utter best to get on with her nevertheless - buys her niche presents, tries to take interest in her interests. He’s not naturally the most chatty or confiding of people - she hates this, loves people to rely on her - but he has always been an brilliant partner to me and helped me to see some of the ways she has persuaded me to accept her more nutty behaviour.

Anyway, recently I had a baby, first and only grandchild, mum has been delighted. Behaving well to my DD, heavily involved, wants to care for DD one day a week when I go back to work, all agreed. There has been a low level thread of her criticising me (BFing too long, not sharing the baby with her enough) and criticising DH (not involved enough - not true, he works from home and has been an amazing support). Despite this we, plus my best friend, agreed to go on a family holiday with her and DF. On the late night, she got drunk and picked a fight about sexism in science. It blew up horribly. She reduced me to hysterical tears, my poor friend to a panic attack and accused my DH of wanting to bring about Gilead (ie handmaid’s tale). All this while my DD some how slept in the next room. The following morning she sort of apologised to me and my friend “all families fight on the last day of holiday” but has been blanking my husband. On the way home she pulled me aside to say she is going to “sort him out” or maybe I should just leave him and have children with someone else. I was changing my daughter at the time and told her that this was utterly unacceptable to say to me, especially in front of my DD. She called me a shithead. I just don’t know where to go from here. She’s always been like this. One horrendous fight every six months to a year but often brilliant in between but this targeting of my husband is so awful and upsetting, especially for him. She’s so good with my DD now but what about in the future. I just don’t know where to go from here. Please be genital but any advice?

(Obviously we are not doing a family holiday again with them).

That sounds really difficult, OP. You sound really thoughtful, and I bet everyone involved benefits from this.

Is your DM perhaps of a more feminist generation, and is struggling to see you living (what she percieves as) a sexist life? That can be very difficult for proud mothers who wanted to raise strong daughters.

Not excusing her, by the way! Just recognising a generational pattern.

I would reduce the phone calls to start with. Daily phone calls sound like a real chore. One supervised visit a week or fortnight sounds ok. Make it clear and be consistent with her that you will not listen to her attacking your DH. How can you pick a fight about sexism in science for goodness sake? Does she not listen to anyone elses opinion and always think she is right?

I found I can train my MIL up. Going no or low contact after her bad behaviour. Having lots of contact when she’s behavibg well

She was abusive when drunk when you were a child, and now your daughter is a child and she's abusive when drunk. I think she's had plenty of chances. You're thinking about giving her one more? And then doing something if she doesn't change? How many decades has it been that she hasn't changed? Will you really do something after this next chance?

But op, with respect, that "one chance" is with your baby, and your first job as her mum is to protect her.

Your mum is emotionally abusive (and the rest) and wants what's best for herself, not for your baby (wanting you to stop breastfeeding etc).

Don't give her a chance at the expense of your little one.

You've been trained to be a people pleaser - by your mother. And that's why you're having a hard time processing recent events. You have to break the spell she has over you OP (for it is just that) a means of keeping you under her control using classic narcissistic weapons of abuse where all is sunny, then just before you get too comfortable and content....enter the big devalue and discard wrapped up in a massive drama of her own making....then and rinse and repeat.
She's a bully, a control freak and she will do ANYTHING to get her fix of narcissistic supply from you and from your baby. Your husband is in her way though and so she's making a move to oust him from the narrative. Because its HER narrative, not yours or your little family. Hers.
She's a piece of work OP.
Time to get those big girl pants on!

Hello everyone. Been giving your comments and questions a lot of thought. I shared the thread with my husband as well. It’s been eye opening to say the least to see it from external perspective.

I think the posters saying she wants me and DD back to herself are right to some extent. Often when DD was very little (she’s still under a year), she would tell my DH to drop us with her so she could take care of us and he could sleep. To clarify, the scary outbursts, either violent or excessively nasty had become very infrequent in the last five years. This was the third in that time and we had had disagreements about DD without getting to the place where she is unreasoned so I thought she had made progress. Hence the childcare arrangement which is due to start at the end of my mat leave. After reading this thread DH and I have started discussing alternatives. I am a bit scared though. She would take that as a very offensive step. And, mad as it sounds, when she is supportive, it’s like love bombing, she is so generous and supportive.

Those of you saying once is too much and to think about it from D’s side not mine, I can’t thank you enough. I don’t think my perspective was right and you have helped me.

PramCush you are right, my mum was very feminist and very involved in a lot of political struggles, not to mention her own mum was abusive in the exact same way, up to criticising my mum to me and punishing my mum by withdrawing affection. I have myself been very worried about being angry with or near the baby. I make sure I hand her to DH or put her somewhere safe and take a minute to compose myself. I have been so worried about not repeating my DM and DGrandmother’s pattern I have not really thought so much about my mum’s dynamic with DD

I also feel very exposed by some of your comments! I am a people pleaser and I have been desperately running around trying to make everyone happy without much serious thought about boundaries. I wanted to make DM happy and reward that she was so supportive through my pregnancy and dd’s life so far that I agreed to the holiday despite the warning signs and yeah. That’s not gone well. The first time our relationship got seriously bad I was in my early teens and I think part of me is still just desperate to please and placate her and get the patient and loving mum of my childhood back rather than one I partially fear. I think a lot of my Dad’s support for her comes from the same place. She has a blow up like this maybe once a year and it’s terrifying and we both want back into her good graces, neither of us sulk or hold grievances like she does. But this is all my problem. It shouldn’t be DD’s.

DH says it shouldn’t be mine either but I might have to start with DD. While thinking about this post, she called up all warm to ask about DD and offer to buy some clothes as DD is just going up a size and it’s hard to associate Dr Jekyll mum with the Hyde bits. But yes. I need to protect DD and DH and take the consequences of that. I am terrified but thank you all. Going to go have a bit of weep now and try to keep this clear.

It is a hard thing - but you really can't trust her with your dd. This toxic family dynamic is what she knows and how she is, and you have to be the one to break the cycle for your dd.

She's your mother so she us your responsibility. Either get her to behave or stop spending time with her. It's not fair to subject your DH to this.

I would insist she also apologised to your DP for the holiday behaviour. That would be a sign you won't tolerate this.

I know someone exactly like this and if it wasn't for the fact her daughter doesn't have a child, I would have asked if you were her. Everything's the same, right down to the same sort of argument and the same generosity.

The person I know is divorced from a friend of mine. She has two adult children and is always, always falling out with someone. I hear about her constantly from my friend as they see their children together. The thing I've noticed is that when the woman kicks off, everyone goes quiet, thinking it's the quickest and easiest way around it. After a couple of weeks she's back in touch as though nothing's happened. Nobody ever confronts her.

I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I think all three (dad and two offspring) should confront her together and keep up a united front. "We love you and want to keep seeing you, but when you do X, Y and Z we don't want to see you again." and "You spoil so many special occasions - if you do it again we won't see you on those occasions."

I know the result would be indignation, a fight and a huge sulk, but I do think the words would resonate and her behaviour would change.

Sorry... I meant DH.....not DP.

If she can't respect him.. she shouldn't disrespect him. That's basically telling you that you chose a useless man in how she treats him.

Don't let her get away with it and don't seek her approval.

If his mother behaved that way to you... would you agree for her to look after your baby?

She's behaved awfully...that comes with consequences.

Has she apologised yet to your husband?
I agree with others look at your child care options but I would also lay down the law your not going to accept those kind of attacks on your husband and your priority is your family unit. If she won't apologise then explain quite plainly that's its not a healthy environment for your DD as she will pick up on the tension and therefore until she can be civil you will be reducing contact.
It's harsh she will probably launch another attack but stay strong in the knowledge that your in the right on this

I've had problems with my own mum, OP, who can also be incredibly kind and supportive. To be honest, I would much rather my daughter have a relationship with her wonderful granny - warts and all, imperfect though the relationship may be (from my perspective) - than to not have that relationship. I don't think any relationship is going to be perfect, and that's OK.

It's easy to be a loving and generous control freak when you have everyone dancing to your tune as your DM does, the challenge is to be loving and generous while accepting that other people have different priorities, ideas and preferences. She withdraws her love when she meets an obstacle to her demands - that's not love, that's tyranny. My DC have my love and support however they choose to live their lives. My love for them, like any half-decent mother, is not conditional on them submitting to my demands. You really need to see your DM for what she is. She has you trained like a dog - behave and you get a biscuit, misbehave and you get a beating.

To those asking about apologies she basically refuses to do them these days. She conceded she hadn’t acted in “a particularly grown up way”. Everything sounds so much worse written down.

In addition to childcare I am going to try and tell her quite how bad her behaviour was. See where that goes. So might be back wailing afterwards.

How often do we read threads where there is friction with a MIL, and the poster is told, "You have a DH problem, he should be supporting you" (quite right, too) Switch genders, and your DP could be hearing, "You have a DW/DP problem, she should be supporting you"
But raising the topic when feelings are running high is not the best moment. Maybe explain you misgivings to DF? It's good that you have the insight to be considering what's best for DD, and look on the bright side - DP sounds like a keeper! Build your future with him!

DH is brilliant. He’s been so patient and supportive. ( I mean he still has the normal run of flaws but yes.). I need to keep in the front of my mind that he and DD come first, not DM.

Your mother is a narcissist and you need to find ways to deal with her. Your father is facilitating her behaviour.

I would not leave your child with her for childcare - can you imagine her abusing your daughter as she has abused you.

You can’t control these people. You can only control your own feelings and reactions. Your mother is toxic - being overtly nice and then nasty is traditional abuser behaviour.

I urge you to read up on the subject and find ways to deal with her. This is a good start.

www-psychologytoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201802/daughters-narcissistic-mothers?amp&amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQGCAEoATgA#origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk&prerenderSize=1&visibilityState=visible&paddingTop=54&p2r=0&horizontalScrolling=0&csi=1&aoh=15316395782865&viewerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Famp%2Fs%2Fwww.psychologytoday.com%2Fus%2Fblog%2Ftoxic-relationships%2F201802%2Fdaughters-narcissistic-mothers%253famp&history=1&storage=1&cid=1&cap=swipe%2CnavigateTo%2Ccid%2Cfragment%2CreplaceUrl

Oh and one poster above said ‘your mother is your responsibility’. That’s not the case at all. She’s her own responsibility and her actions have consequences.

Your DM is abusive and more than a little crazy. No way would I be leaving my baby in her care for one day a week! Just look at how she raised you - with verbal and physical abuse that you were then conditioned to accept and blame yourself for. The very best thing you can do is keep her away from your baby unless you are there to keep an eye on her crazy behaviour. She's manipulative and abusive. Please get some therapy to help you see that clearly and in order to protect yourself and your DC in future. You're so used to abuse being the norm and brushing it under the carpet that you aren't able to see it for what it is.

As for your poor DH - your DM can see that he's the voice of reason and she's worried that he might reason you out of having contact with her in future, due to her nutty, abusive and violent behaviour - if only he'd been able to do that already! But she's determined to get him out of your life so she can reclaim her position of dominance. FGS get some help OP!

This thread is so sad to read OP but you should be really proud that you are aware of the pattern of behaviour in the past and are so determined to protect your child from it. Have you considered having any counselling? You mention that the comments on the thread are making you see things differently and that's great but it may be helpful to have ongoing impartial support that can help you work through it all

I think part of me is still just desperate to please and placate her and get the patient and loving mum of my childhood back rather than one I partially fear. - and, of course, this is the pattern of abusers, OP. It's how they work - the poor abused want so desperately to get the 'nice' one back, that they do anything, bend over backwards, brush under the carpet, squash their own feelings down down down, so that the abusive side doesn't appear.

And they do it - because it works! You do whatever is necessary, including handing over your own child, so that the abuser is happy and appeased.

No one challenges her, because the monster will appear. The tears, the screaming, the crying, the violence, the tantrums - you are conditioned to avoid all this at all costs. BUT you should not be frightened of her now - you should be standing up to her. You hold all the power now - you have something she wants (the baby) and it is your decision who cares for her. A bit of straight talking might get through to her (expect all the tears screaming crying etc) but at the end of the day, it's your child, and if she wants access to her, then she does it your way.

It's hard, but otherwise her behaviour will continue into and onto the next generation.

This sounds very similar to my mum. She had an abusive upbringing too. It resonates very much with me the idea of the lovebombing interspersed with the guilt trips and engineering rows over nothing. Mine also got much worse (or it affected me more as I couldn't accept it/sweep it under the carpet as much) once I got married and had children. I think the "competition" of other people in my life made it worse. So the generous love bombing rampd up, but so did the other shit.
I had a thread about it here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1565077-My-mother-hates-my-husband-long
and ultimately we went low contact, but she pushed and pushed and pushed and it all culminated in really really bad behaviour and we are now no contact, have been for 4 years.

I'm not advocating no contact especially, but I will say that she is damaging and toxic to your child. Think very carefully about how she will affect not only your child directly (and any future children, think favourites, mine favoured my first outrageously even though she'd always insisted it was an awful thing to have favourites), but also indirectly through poisoning the child against you and/or your DH.