husband vs father

[caniteverwork]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some perspective. this feels long, but I'll try and keep it as short as possible!

I'm an only child, my mum is dead, and I am very close to my dad. He has done and would do anything for me, DH and the kids. He and DH used to be really close. Dad has always been really handy, fixing cars, plumbing, he's helped DH with loads of projects, and they were good mates. DH really appreciated it, as we didn't have much money, and dad taught him how to do a lot of stuff. He lent us money whenever we needed it, and used to enjoy coming round for a drink.

When the kids came along, dad was delighted. He absolutely dotes on them, and has done all our childcare for years. When he was working, he paid towards our nursery fees, as he felt his MIL helped him. We started looking to move back closer to him, especially after he had a mild stroke. A house in his street came up to buy, and he gave us money to enable us to afford it. He said he did it for selfish reasons, to have his grandchildren closer, but it obviously benefitted us too. Since moving closer and him retiring, I have been able to go back to full time work, as he does all the childcare after school. This has obviously benefitted us hugely financially! DH works away a lot, so dad makes the dinners, helps with the homework, runs them to afterschool clubs etc. I really couldn't do it without him.

We used to go on holiday together too. My dad's friends are all still coupled up, and he still feels the loss of my mum.

However!
Recently my dad has started to develop some of the annoying habits that older people seem to get. He fusses about silly things, eg a dentist appointment takes up his whole day! He forgets things. He back-seat drives. He tells the same story over and over. He keeps us all waiting whenever we go anywhere. He talks about TV programmes or sport that we have no interest in. Sometimes he drives me mad, but he means no harm!

Over the last couple of years DH has been becoming less and less tolerant of my dad, to the point where he seems now to really hate him . Our last holiday together was a disaster, they ended up falling out a couple of times, and I accepted that maybe it was time for us to stop going on holiday together, as I ended up piggy in the middle and it was stressful

But a couple of months later DH got drunk and turned on my dad really nastily, asking him if he thought our house was his house and other hateful stuff. Dad went home, DH and I obviously had words, and I was, at that point, ready to leave him. Dad actually stuck up for him, said it was the drink etc! DH persuaded me that he was sorry, apologised to my dad, who graciously accepted, and begged me to give him another chance. I love him, so I did.

But now it's not working. Dad doesn't come over if DH is there, DH won't come somewhere if dad is coming My dad is pathetically grateful for any time I spend with him, but has never said anything about/ against DH. I spend time with my dad when DH isn't there. Dad still does our childcare, but goes as soon as DH comes home, pretty much.

This is breaking my heart. I feel like DH is being really mean, as he makes snidey remarks about my dad (to his face) and he knows it hurts me, but doesn't care. If I try to talk to him about it I get accusations of being a "daddy's girl" or that I love my dad more than him/ my dad and I have some kind of weird relationship/ my dad thinks I'm his wife. DH is not close at all to his family- he hated his dad (now deceased) and hardly ever sees his mum. I call his mum far more than he ever does, and I loved his dad too.

I think DH is one of those people that says nothing but silently seethes and resents, and then responds with hateful or passive aggressive shit. I can't seem to talk to him about this, but I feel the way he is behaving and seeing my dad more lonely than he needs to be is slowly eroding my love for him.

I'm very independent (as I said, DH has worked away a lot throughout our relationship, so the kids and I are well used to cracking on without him). Him and I generally get along, we can have a good laugh together when we aren't arguing about this, and have a good sex life. We aren't a very romantic couple, but that's ok. I have no desire to find anyone else, and I don't think he does either- he has had plenty opportunity to do so. I'm sure if I kicked him out he would find someone else, as he's still good looking (I'm not , have aged badly!).

I really don't know if it's worth ending my marriage or not. Would I be happier on my own, having torn the family apart? Am I unhappy enough to make it worth the upset to my children? My dad would be devastated, as he would feel responsible, and I know he is trying to stay out of our way as much as possible. Any insight/ advice/ perspective would be appreciated! I realise on here it is usually interfering MILs causing the issues, and I've tried to put myself in DH's shoes...but I still think he should just be kind. I think I would be.

OMG- so sorry for the length of that

Your poor dad he sounds lovely and even the annoying habits really aren't so bad.

Your DH is being a massive prick and is the only problem IMO. I'd pull him up about it. Get him to acknowledge that this is completely unacceptable behaviour to treat someone who has been nothing but generous, loving and helpful to you both like shit.

I'd tell him it has to stop and he has to fucking grow up and treat your father with respect or the relationship will fall apart.

One thing struck me about your post, there’s no mention of staying for love or of any feelings for you DH other than you sometimes having a laugh together.

Your dad sounds wonderful, and it must be so special for your kids having such a close relationship with a grandparent.

To be brutally honest, I find your husbands behaviour and attitude utterly appalling. Your father is aging, that’s what happens to humans! He has the usual foibles that any older people have and it sounds your husband is being unnecessarily horrible about this.

I don’t really know what advice to offer, but in your situation I think I would be reassessing the relationship. I feel you are looking at the loss/benefit the wrong way. As mentioned above by another poster you don’t talk about love or feelings for your DH. You talk about him easily moving on but I don’t think this should factor in your decision.

You sound like you are intelligent and independent. You work and have a good support network around you. Try to imagine your life without your DH, does it look like an unhappy life? Based purely on what you’ve said (and of course I don’t know any real details or the reality of your life) but it sounds like you’d still be happy if you and your husband parted ways. You don’t have to be with someone, and sometimes it’s best to be alone for a while.

My other concern would be that I feel your DH has shown his true colours, and you don’t know if one day you may be on the receiving end of this attitude. If you were to fall ill do you truly believe he would be there to look after you?

Sorry you’re having a tough time

Let's turn this around.
Imagine your MIL basically arranged for you to buy a house on her Street, "for selfish reasons". Imagine every day you come home from work and your MIL is sat there. Imagine whenever womanly advice is needed, your husband approaches his mother and not you. No matter how generous your MIL had been and no matter how close DH was to his mother, it would start to grate.

I'm not saying that your father has done anything wrong, just that you should try to empathise with your husband a little.

Your dad sounds amazing but I can see how your dh may have gotten a bit fed up. I would sit them both down and tell them both how much you love them and how it is difficult for everyone and come to some kind of peaceful agreement. Your dh also needs to know that your dad isn't going to be there all the time and your dad needs to be made welcome. So what would be something that everyone is happy with? Also maybe agree on some joint holidays and some separate holidays. I think you understanding where everyone is coming from and orchestrating an agreement would help tremendously.

However much I loved a parent or friend etc, i would hate them to be there all the time. And I'm very sociable.

I would have trouble loving someone who couldn’t even like someone I loved so much.

Human being irritate each other. Your DH sounds hugely intolerant and selfish, and seems to be conveniently forgetting that really you owe your dad a great deal.
You sound as though you realise it but you are so lucky to have all that practical and financial help.

I would absolutely not be tolerating all the passive aggressive ‘daddy’s girl’ shit either.

How old are your kids? I wonder what they think about their grandad being treated like shit?

Really appreciate all the replies! Disquieted, yes, I have thought of that, and I do see why my DH might be a little frustrated. I think this is exactly what has happened with DH.

I sometimes think that DH is jealous of the relationship me and the DC have with my dad, especially as he works away (although not so much now). We have routines etc that were put in place when he was away, and we tend to fall back into them.

I guess not a lot of love for DH came through on my post, because I'm not really feeling the love for him right now. A couple of years ago, I'd have said we were one of the most solid couples I know, really happy. I think DH loves me, although he doesn't like to say it!

Oh OP, that's so tough.

I have a v similar relationship with my own father and would struggle so much if I found myself in your position. Your poor dad sounds so sad and I think your DH is being very cruel. I wouldn't hear a word against my own father; he deserves the love he's always given me.

I picked up on this comment of yours re your H:-

"DH is not close at all to his family- he hated his dad (now deceased) and hardly ever sees his mum. I call his mum far more than he ever does, and I loved his dad too".

Why do you call his mother?. You feel that is your role because your DH for his own reasons does not see his mother very often?. Why do you feel responsible for them?. Why did he hate his dad so?. What have been relations like between them, what sort of childhood did your H have with his parents?. You also stated that you loved his late dad, a man who your H himself hated; why?.

All that is I would think part of the reason why he is acting as he does towards your own dad and to some extent you now. You also need to ask yourself some tough questions too.

OP so sorry you are going through this

I have almost the same scenario as you my mom died nearly 20 years ago and I am very very close to my dad I have just had my first baby and due to our proximity to my dad have depended on him a lot. DH doesn't like it but fails to see that he does not help me in the same way my Dad does we also have a bone of contention between us as at Christmas his mom was rude to my Dad and has not apologised so I refuse to be anything other than civil to her (and that's hard). I have. O words of wisdom really but as another poster said upthread I wouldn't hear a word against my own father; he deserves the love he's always given me. Good luck OP

Old people can be annoying, but your dh is being a selfish prick tbh. Your life (and his) would have been a whole lot harder without the help of your DF.

When you talk about your DF there seems to be lots of love, friendship and affection, I’m not getting that about your dh.

I guess you can see it from both sides. Can you ask your dh what he needs to change in order to drop the attitude.

Your DH sounds a dick

I think most people would probably feel like your dh does with an IL who is that enmeshed in their family and marital life. It sounds like you’re dad means well but truly it would drive me batshit if my mum or MIL were around that much, on holiday with us, etc. In our case, both our dads passed away when we were young so I get wanting to take care of an older parent. But I think your dh is probably feeling what most people would feel about it and it’s simmered under the surface a long time, and it’s just now come out in not the best way. Can you spend some time just focusing on family time and your marriage and maybe keep your relationship with your dad separate for a bit? I don’t think you should be thinking of ending your marriage over any of this (unless there is more to it), but perhaps focus on time with your dad one on one or when your dh is away so they each have their time with you. And perhaps help your dad build up his own social circle and interests a bit too?

I don't mean to sound harsh but it comes across that your Dad is your priority (your family unit is you, your dad, your kids) and Dad has been involved in decisions about the way you live your life and the major choices you make about where to live, holidays, whether to move, how you manage the kids, and childcare.

You "sometimes think" your DH might be jealous. spot on! I would be getting snippy by now too.

And you think your views about family are right and his are wrong. So you call his mum for him. Again, why don't you let him be an adult and equal partner with views different to yours rather than mirroring your parents and imposing your/their ways?

And now, when it's clear DH is getting hacked off, you are considering ending your marriage. What about changing your relationship with your Dad so your husband and you remain a priority unit. Your Dad seems to get this more than you. But you're most worried that your Dad might be upset about your marriage breaking up!!

This can't have been so sudden though. Did DH ever suggest things were getting too enmeshed? Did you hear him or change anything? Your love for your Dad shines through and that's nice but it also comes across that you have much time or liking for DH at all!

I think your H is a mean bastard

Now your dad is getting a bit irritating, he wants to get shut of him despite all the help and support he has provided over the years

Maybe your dad's mental health is fading a bit. He's had a stroke, ffs. If your dad broke his leg or something would your H resent the "imposition" of some of the assistance now going the other way ?

He needs to take a good long look at himself. This is one of the few times I would recommend showing someone a thread.

Your dad sounds like such a great human being and your DH isn’t half the man he is

That's really hard op. Having DF as your childcare provider, means he HAS to be meshed into your family. I'm sure this has been amazing over the years, saved you a fortune and not have to worry about who is looking after your kids.

Any one of our DP's being that close would drive me crazy, but it sounds like he's aware of that and trying to leave quickly, it must be really hard to watch. I feel sad about it and I'm just reading about it.

Whether he's grating on DH's nerves or not, he needs to grow up and talk about it like an adult, not dig and make sly remarks, especially not to your DF about you having an inappropriate relationship! Would he leave his kids with anyone he genuinely thought could harm them?

It sounds like a serious conversation between you both is needed. I've been with my DH 33 years and, from the beginning said "if you ever sulk and not sort out a row, it's a dealbreaker", and he hasn't. my parents wouldn't talk for weeks at a time and I'm not prepared to live like that with anyone.

Good luck op, I can see you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. 💐💐💐

Thank you so much for all the responses and the viewpoints. There seem to be two sides: those that think my DH is an arse and those that think he has been pushed to snapping point by my family ties. I alternate between the two my self!

To answer some questions. I call DHs mum because she is elderly too, lives a way away, and I like to make sure she is ok. She also enjoys talking to the dc and I put them on to her. She has a bad habit of sending money through the post for birthdays etc, so I always call (or get the kids to call) to say that we got it and thank you. She never sends a card or calls for DHs birthday . I like her, she is very different from me and their family have different dynamics. I had a great childhood, DH not so much.

I think all this has made me see a mean streak in DH. He's often not kind to me or the dc either, just daft things, teasing us, but sometimes it's hurtful, and sometimes I'd just love to see him do it say something kind, iyswim? He is very good at the practical stuff and takes a lot of pressure off me that way, and I've always said that's how he shows he loves me, but sometimes now I'm just wishing for some kindness, a little compliment, a hand hold. But he's never been like that, so I can't really moan.

"turned on my dad really nastily, asking him if he thought our house was his house and other hateful stuff"

I think it's interesting that you call this outburst "really nasty" and "hateful". It doesn't seem that way to me, just an outburst telling a few home truths.

You say you've tried to put yourself in your DH's shoes, what have you done? Because from your OP the only concession you seem to have made is to not invite your Dad on family holidays, which is not exactly meeting DH halfway.

It was quite aggressive at the time, as DH was very drunk.

I have honestly been trying to see it from DHs POV. As well as not going on holiday, I've stopped inviting dad out with us to events. He still looks after the dc after school, makes dinner and such, so I feel bad that he scuttles off when DH comes in (before me, so I don't see him). Actually the dc are getting older and don't necessarily really need childcare the same, but I just can't stand the thought of "right, we don't need you any more, off you fuck"

Don't get me wrong, sometimes my dad drives me crazy too! Sometimes if DH isn't here I'll be home listening to music and dad will come in and switch the tv on to watch something I don't want to watch them moan that he can't hear it over my music!! I have sometimes been short with him. Then he goes home and I feel bad because I know one day he won't be here, and what if...

OK, so not inviting him out to events is a compromise, but bringing GPs out to most events is not the norm for most families either. And it sounds like your Dad is still over at your house every day?

How often does your DH come home to your Dad in the house? I feel for your position but you surely recognise that you are asking your DH to put up with an extremely unusual level of involvement from your dad.

The thing is that if DH is home (not every night) he is home before me but not before schools out. So my dad is here with the kids, as we need an adult to be here. They could go to his house, but all their "stuff" is here, so it's easier for dad to come here. So yes, he does come home to dad in the house about 3 days a week, because dad is looking after the kids until he gets home.

Its interesting my family have the same set up in the sense that mum lives next door helps with kids. Getting older complains a lot, nags a lot,takes over a lot and tells the same story a lot.
We werent always close she took off when I was 17 and so her lectures grate on me a lot.
However dh who comes from a very close knit family tollerates her a lot better than me and despite his failings as a dh and her condemnation of his behaviour his upbringing means he would do anything for her and always involves her tells me Im overreacting to some of the things she does to the point wherr I get frustrated.

However that is not him being weird that is me due to past issues that mean my tollerance level is low.

As such I think your dh is acting like a prick but its down to his view of family dynamics learned from childhood and he needs to recognise that and adjust his attitude its not your dads fault that your dhs threshold is low nor should it be your dad or your problem your dh needs to suck it up and put on his big boy pants.

However that aside it sounds like the bigger issue is how you and your dh interact as it sounds like your dad aside your relationship itself is a problem.