husband vs father

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Hi all,

I'm looking for some perspective. this feels long, but I'll try and keep it as short as possible!

I'm an only child, my mum is dead, and I am very close to my dad. He has done and would do anything for me, DH and the kids. He and DH used to be really close. Dad has always been really handy, fixing cars, plumbing, he's helped DH with loads of projects, and they were good mates. DH really appreciated it, as we didn't have much money, and dad taught him how to do a lot of stuff. He lent us money whenever we needed it, and used to enjoy coming round for a drink.

When the kids came along, dad was delighted. He absolutely dotes on them, and has done all our childcare for years. When he was working, he paid towards our nursery fees, as he felt his MIL helped him. We started looking to move back closer to him, especially after he had a mild stroke. A house in his street came up to buy, and he gave us money to enable us to afford it. He said he did it for selfish reasons, to have his grandchildren closer, but it obviously benefitted us too. Since moving closer and him retiring, I have been able to go back to full time work, as he does all the childcare after school. This has obviously benefitted us hugely financially! DH works away a lot, so dad makes the dinners, helps with the homework, runs them to afterschool clubs etc. I really couldn't do it without him.

We used to go on holiday together too. My dad's friends are all still coupled up, and he still feels the loss of my mum.

However!
Recently my dad has started to develop some of the annoying habits that older people seem to get. He fusses about silly things, eg a dentist appointment takes up his whole day! He forgets things. He back-seat drives. He tells the same story over and over. He keeps us all waiting whenever we go anywhere. He talks about TV programmes or sport that we have no interest in. Sometimes he drives me mad, but he means no harm!

Over the last couple of years DH has been becoming less and less tolerant of my dad, to the point where he seems now to really hate him . Our last holiday together was a disaster, they ended up falling out a couple of times, and I accepted that maybe it was time for us to stop going on holiday together, as I ended up piggy in the middle and it was stressful

But a couple of months later DH got drunk and turned on my dad really nastily, asking him if he thought our house was his house and other hateful stuff. Dad went home, DH and I obviously had words, and I was, at that point, ready to leave him. Dad actually stuck up for him, said it was the drink etc! DH persuaded me that he was sorry, apologised to my dad, who graciously accepted, and begged me to give him another chance. I love him, so I did.

But now it's not working. Dad doesn't come over if DH is there, DH won't come somewhere if dad is coming My dad is pathetically grateful for any time I spend with him, but has never said anything about/ against DH. I spend time with my dad when DH isn't there. Dad still does our childcare, but goes as soon as DH comes home, pretty much.

This is breaking my heart. I feel like DH is being really mean, as he makes snidey remarks about my dad (to his face) and he knows it hurts me, but doesn't care. If I try to talk to him about it I get accusations of being a "daddy's girl" or that I love my dad more than him/ my dad and I have some kind of weird relationship/ my dad thinks I'm his wife. DH is not close at all to his family- he hated his dad (now deceased) and hardly ever sees his mum. I call his mum far more than he ever does, and I loved his dad too.

I think DH is one of those people that says nothing but silently seethes and resents, and then responds with hateful or passive aggressive shit. I can't seem to talk to him about this, but I feel the way he is behaving and seeing my dad more lonely than he needs to be is slowly eroding my love for him.

I'm very independent (as I said, DH has worked away a lot throughout our relationship, so the kids and I are well used to cracking on without him). Him and I generally get along, we can have a good laugh together when we aren't arguing about this, and have a good sex life. We aren't a very romantic couple, but that's ok. I have no desire to find anyone else, and I don't think he does either- he has had plenty opportunity to do so. I'm sure if I kicked him out he would find someone else, as he's still good looking (I'm not , have aged badly!).

I really don't know if it's worth ending my marriage or not. Would I be happier on my own, having torn the family apart? Am I unhappy enough to make it worth the upset to my children? My dad would be devastated, as he would feel responsible, and I know he is trying to stay out of our way as much as possible. Any insight/ advice/ perspective would be appreciated! I realise on here it is usually interfering MILs causing the issues, and I've tried to put myself in DH's shoes...but I still think he should just be kind. I think I would be.

If I had to see my dh’s Dad that much I would go absolutely bonkers! And it sounds like he was right when he said your dad treats your house like his house. However, your dad has given you so much help over the years.
Hard one, I can understand if he feels a bit jealous/displaced, you clearly would choose your father over him. Which I’m not stiff is wrong!
His own relationship with his dad is interesting, what was he like that your dh hated him and you loved him?

I can see both sides. It sounds like your dad has done nothing actually wrong, but his excessive presence is definitely a huge issue for your husband. Your comment about "I like her, she is very different from me and their family have different dynamics. I had a great childhood, DH not so much" comes across as pretty dismissive. What caused him to have a "not so great" childhood? His over-reaction to your poor father's normal behaviour is likely a direct result of his own upbringing. I really do feel for you and your dad, but I think that there's something more behind your husband's reactions that aren't just him being unreasonable or unfair. He needs to stop treating your dad badly, but needs understanding himself too.

If your DH hadn’t been quite happy to have your dad doing all the childcare and being so involved I might be able to see his point, but given how much your dad has done I don’t think the continued digs and snide comments is helpful. The drunken blow up was awful but at least he’s apologised, it seems to be the continuation that’s so horrible.

I’m probably massively projecting, because my Mum died last year and my dad has needed (and got) a lot of support. He’s lost without my Mum and our kids are a huge part of what is keeping him going.

I’d be devastated if DP went for him that way, or was continually nasty and made him feel unwelcome. He wouldn’t, but that’s how I’d feel if he did.

ILs can be a minefield, but it sounds like all of the aggression and nastiness is coming from your DH and putting you in the middle and making your Dad feel rubbish. You and he coped all that time while your DH wasn’t there and he’s not even a bit grateful for the help your dad has given over the years?

I’ve put up with A LOT from SIL over the years and have (and will continue to) bite my tongue for BILs sake (PILs died many years ago). I think your DH should do the same, after all he was happy enough with your dad doing his job when he wasn’t there, so the least he can do is not make your dad feel unwelcome.

I realise that’s not the popular opinion on the thread, but honestly? If my DP went for my widowed dad the way yours did? I’d leave,

I’d also note that he wasn’t having a go when your dad was helping with money or childcare, so he was happy enough with that, now he’s back more he wants the man who stepped in to do his job to leave because he’s outlived his use?

When you put it like that....

There are zillion of threads about overbearing MIL, who tell DILs what to do, always involves, helpful but then expecting things back, giving advice that is not asked for etc... Your OH is experiencing the same frustration with your FIL and you're finding yourself in the same position many husbands find themselves with torn between the mum they adore and their wives who want their MIL as far away as possible.

I don't think your OH is mean. I think he has tried hard to keep his own feelings to himself because he knew how important your dad was in your life, but it got the point when it's been getting harder. Unfortunately, it is very common for people to age drastically after they retire if they don't keep a good adult social life. It sounds like your dad relies a lot on you and your children to bring him happiness and it's understandable that your OH would find it suffocating.

I think it might be the right time to gently encourage your father to try to find things he could get involved in that would make him happy that doesn't include you or your kids. There are many holiday companies that now cater for single older people, same with activities, colleges etc... Your children must soon be coming to an age when they will be able to go to him rather than him needing to come to yours.

It's a hard place to be stuck in the middle and you should be there for your dad, but your OH needs to feel that his home is his, and so is his family rather than feeling he has to share it all with your dad.

Your DF has helped practically and financially. Your family would have paid out thousands in child care etc. And you even had help buying a house. All this was fine and dandy to your DH whilst he was away because it absolved him of responsibility and left him with money in his pocket.

Now he's decided your DF is annoying? Disgusting.

Wonder if he'll find you annoying when you're old and repeat yourself.

Fair enough he has lost his relationship with your df, but he needs to bite his tongue and be civil for your sake. You df is already doing his bit to meet him half way. If he can't do this out of respect for you, then it doesn't say much for your relationship.

I wonder if he has really already mentally checked out of your marriage, and is doing the age old thing of goading you into being the bad guy and ending it.

I agree with a few others. I personally couldn’t cope with my in law being that involved and coming on every holiday, however much I liked them.

But, your H was fine with this and never said a word until your father started to develop a few annoying, but common, habits. It feels to me that he was okay with it when there was a clear benefit, but now when your dad needs a bit more support, he suddenly is too involved and needs to back off. The worst part for me is your father providing free childcare and then feeling he has to rush out of the house as soon as your H gets home.

I think you need to sit down with your H and ask him how he is feeling about all of this. Let him give his side even if it seems unfair. I think this is important because it will let you know what his expectations are about things going forward and then you can decide how you feel about that and what needs to happen next.

Your dad sounds great, but I think your DH did the damage and it won't ever be what it was.

Can you explain to DH how this feels for you and that maybe sime relationship counselling would be beneficial?

I am so torn. On one hand I want to be a "good wife" for DH, and on thd other hand I want to be my self. It's really about the kids, and how it would affect thrm.

Oh dear. You say so many conflicting things about your relationship. I wonder if you even realise the depths of anger you seem to feel towards your DH for putting you in this pisition. My husband sometimes gets arsey about the amount of time we speand in blocks withmymum. We all go to a particular area together and she is with us pretty much 24/7. It can be difficult and she does sometimes drive me bonkers, but she has helped us lots too. It's non negotiable in our house- me and my mum.

She is getting old now, and has Parkinsons. None of us will be here forever. I would never forgive my husband if he got in the way of me seeing my mum and she died soon after. It certainly sounds like your dad cherishes you more than your husband does. Tell him to suck it up. Your dad is entitled to be with his family and he has earned that right, every time he looks after your kiddies, helped with household stuff and helped you buy a house.

i want to be a good wife on the other hand Ibwant to be myself

Red flag there dear. Being a good wife shouldnt mean you cant be yourself. A good wife is loved for herself the two things arent mutually exclusive.

Having a third person in a marriage is always frustrating, even if you love your dad he isn’t your DH’s Dad and it seems your DH is finally at the end of his tether. You need to focus more on your immediate family including DH.

Your DHs mother doesn't send him any birthday cards but acknowledges everyone else's?

If you can't be yourself with DH, there is a serious problem in your relationship with him. Your father is the catalyst not the cause.

I agree that you should have a full and frank discussion/counselling with DH. He sounds like an unpleasant and actually quite cruel 'user' to me. I understand that your priority is your DC, but children can and do adapt to break ups.

Could the DC go to your father's house after school and DH cook the dinner uninterrupted?

I don’t think it’s as simple as just being frustrated with his FIL being over-involved. At least from your telling it sounds as though he was happy for him to be around lots when all the giving was coming from the FIL, now FIL needs a bit back (though only really patience/tolerance) your DH has decided FIL has outlived his usefulness and is no longer welcome. Which is not nice.

That being said, older people can be frustrating so I would understand him needing a bit of a break sometimes, or occasionally needing to let off some steam with a bit of a rant to you, but being constantly nasty is not on.

BUT... I wonder if his animosity towards your Dad isn’t at least partly a symptom of a problem in your relationship with your DH. Do you have his back? It seems quite revealing that you loved his Dad when he hated him, and it seems he has reason to not be close to his Mum, given that she doesn’t even make the effort to acknowledge his birthday, yet you still make the effort with her. Maybe he feels like you always support your Dad, but don’t have his back in the same way. Which could definitely breed a lot of resentment, perhaps it’s just easier to direct that at your Dad than at you.

(Unless there really is no reason for him to dislike his parents and that’s also a sign of him just being nasty)

That being said, if your DH can’t or won’t talk about what bothers him (perhaps couples counselling would help?), things won’t improve and him always being passive aggressive and acting in ways he knows he hurts you, will not be a good environment for your children to grow up in anyway.

What is dreadful here is the lack of respect your husband has shown your father.

I’m sorry but your father has stepped in to fill a great role within your lives and it looks like he has been trying to compensate you and the children for a lack of grandma.

I hear you in that he has a few annoying habits but don’t we all? After everything this man has done for you all you are complaining about him chattering on about subjects that interest him but not you?

Imo you can’t shove your dad out in the cold because basically he adores your family and you have willingly accepted his practical support for years.

I think you’d break his heart if he was unable to continue to play a useful role within your lives.

I’d never say ltb over this but I think you need to consider the fact that your husband is jealous of your father and maybe he is worried that you and the kids prefer your dad to him. Your dh sounds bitter.

He should not making you feel like you have to choose between them.

My heart breaks a little for your father. I can’t really explain why

"The annoying habits older people seem to get"

WTAF!!!!

No, it is not a normal, inevitable part of ageing. You have noticed changes in your DDad, and it is wrong to lazily ascribe them to his age. Not least because it means you will not be looking for any other reasons (illness, stress etc) all of which can strike at any age and stage in life. If you think he might be ill - an MH condition such as anxiety, or a form of dementia, then get him to a GP. Don't write off any symptoms as normal because of age.

What you have right now is however a DH issue. I can see why he snapped - you describe the level of involvement your DDad has in your family life in ways that seem unusually high. It's not a common set up, possibly because if the stresses it brings. So I think your DH might be quite reasonable to have become thoroughly fed up with it, especially if he wants to see himself as an independent adult, not someone still dependent on a parent (and not his own to boot).

But he has handled his 'camel's straw' moment really badly. In vino veritas and all that, but as you say there's a mean streak in there. Because, now the outburst has occurred, he's not looking at how to deal with it - to minimise impact, to learn from it, to work out the healthiest way ahead.

What do you think possible good outcomes from this point wouid be like?

Imagine if you worked away a lot and DMIL stepped in and brought up the kids. Don’t think I would be too happy with that, and def not having her 2 doors down.
It’s also unfair on the DMIL who should make their own life as a widow not live life through you. This is what has been allowed to happen.
The family seems to be you, DF and DCs. How long has this been - are the DCs about to leave Home.
And stop the keeping in with Dhs mother. You could speak to DH and ask about his childhood. Amazing it’s never come up? And point out to him that you need DF as a childminer so what’s to be done.
You’ve called all the shots so far re childcare etc tell DH you cannot read his mind - you need to have some serious deep conversations about the future

I was mostly team Dad until i read this bit dad will come in and switch the tv on to watch something I don't want to watch them moan that he can't hear it over my music

Why would this happen? How do you respond? I could not be happy with that behaviour from my own parents, never mind inlaws.

Is it possible that your father is around your house a lot, even when he isn't providing childcare and that he expects his wishes to override yours? No amount of childcare and deposits to buy would be worth not being able to call the place your own.

How does this fit with being torn being yourself around DH? Is part of being yourself expecting your father to act like this. I really feel for DH if your father has been behaving like this in your home

If I had to see my FIL every single day I would go crazy. He's a lovely person, there's not really anything wrong with him. But it would just be too much for me. Most people on here would never agree to coming home to their MILs every day!

DF should get his own life whilst he is still well and able. Some childminding but not all childminding.

Appreciate all replies, lots of interesting viewpoints. Had a long conversation with DH yesterday on the back of posting this. He realises how much this upsets me and is going to make more of an effort. Meanwhile I will try to make more time for us, maybe even get away a weekend (dad will be happy to take the kids!)

I do understand DHs background. He hated his dad because he cheated on his mum. His mum made DH deal with the OW when she came to the door (DH was just 10 or so) His mum and dad stayed together but we're always fighting, and he and his sister left home as soon as they could. His dad was always lovely to me, I think he felt bad about his relationship with DH but DH could never forgive him. I became quite close to his dad when he was dying, because I could talk to him about his fears instead of telling him he'd be fine. He was funny, and actually a lot like DH.

And yes, I agree with pps about dad getting his own life and I am encouraging him to do that. He does have other groups of friends and hobbies, but some of his hobbies (running, motorbiking) his age is making problematic.