DP tracking his ExW and reading her emails.

[NameChangeAsThisIsBloodyAwful]

Urgh. This is really messing with my head.

So, DP has been separated for 2 years. Divorce in progress. He left. There are 2 older teenage DCs. We have been together 1.5 years, it's serious and we will be moving in together.

Basically, without writing a novel, there are a few issues at play here. He tracks his ex wife on Find My IPhone - he has the password. He says he does it to see where his children are (on same cloud), and so that he doesn't ever have to bump into exw. I've been unhappy with this as it smacks of not letting go, and of control - not to mention legal implications of invasion of privacy.
Thing is, it's not just for the kids. The exw had a night out on Saturday and he kept checking to see where she was and was frustrated that her phone seemed to be offline.
We rowed about it. I told him he needs to let go. He told me that he has let go, but because of the nature of the split - she took it very badly and it's impacted massively on his relationship with his children who took their mum's side and don't really want to see him, that he does it to feel part of the children's lives still...or something,

It's not only that. He regularly checks her email. He also has that password - she isn't technogically minded, and he set up all these things when they were still together. He says he does it see if there are any emails regarding a sport his eldest dc takes part in, as the exw is telling him nothing anymore. I think that is also completely unacceptable.

Further, he's been very reticent about telling her that he has a new relationship. I accepted that due to the precarious nature of his relationship with his kids and didn't want to rock the boat. However, at this stage we are serious about a future together. The other week we were spotted by a relative of the exw who reported back to her that we had been seen together. She text him to ask if he was with someone else, and expressed that he had promised to tell her if he was seeing someone new, and that it hurt to hear second hand (totally reasonable of her in my opinion) and that she (and the kids, she always involves them) would like the truth from him.

He text her back minimising everything, saying it was someone he had very recently started seeing and that it was far too soon to tell the children.
Lies. Total lies. We've been together since 2016. He has met my entire family and child many times. We have had family holidays together and we are going to be buying a house together.

He is just so scared she will use anything against him to create an even worse relationship with his children.

To say I'm fed up of all of this is a huge understatement. We also rowed about his reply to her text. I understand he would have preferred to tell her that he was in a relationship and not for her to hear it second hand, but he should have told her before, in my opinion. And now that she knows something, he should have been more honest. Not to rub her nose in it, but not to minimise me and make me feel like a nothing in his life.

The rest of our relationship is excellent, otherwise I'd not be able to cope with his.

I don't know what to do about this though. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or he is. I am looking for some advice on how to handle it.

There is genuinely something very wrong here. Kids will generally not refuse to see their father without very good reason.

You’d better hope he doesn’t have your Mumsnet password.

@namechangeasthisisbloodyawful

I'm here if you want to PM me. Please take some time to talk to someone in the real world who you trust. If you can't do that yet, then think about the things that you don't want to tell them. The things that they wouldn't understand. That's when I realised there was something wrong.

www.verywellmind.com/identify-and-cope-with-emotional-abuse-4156673

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/arguing-and-conflict/what-emotional-abuse?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqbLBj87x2wIVzIKyCh2Hkgl8EAAYASAAEgJ5OPD_BwE

I'm so sorry OP. Please think this thru and process it .

This has all been incredibly isolating to read so and making me question my entire reality to be honest.

It must be really difficult for you OP. Please try and talk to someone in real life. One of the organisations in Nje1's links in her post at 12:46 would be a good start.

I think it is reasonable to ask him to go to counseling for the sake of your relationship, so he can deal with all the past events and move forward. Discuss this with him and see what he says. Maybe this is fixable and he just has some unresolved issues like you say. If that's the case he must deal with them properly, things can't continue this way, it is incredibly unhealthy and worrying.

Be careful here. There are a lot of red flags as others have pointed out -
His children are almost adults - seems odd that they would cut all contact with him through no apparent wrong doing of his.

He left the relationship but is struggling to .. what exactly? Let go? But he left. Misses the family? Again, why did he leave then and apparently on such bad terms that his children won't speak to him. Kids that age will have their own opinions, I wouldn't place too much in the 'shes poisoned them against me' line.

It all just seems a bit fishy. And then the clearly completely out of order stalking behaviour, the excuses don't wash I'm afraid. What he is doing is very unhealthy, wrong, controlling. If he thinks this is ok what else does he do that you don't know about? What else might he do in future?

Sorry op. I hope a good resolution comes out of this for you.

My goodness, you’re both as crazy as each other. I can’t beleive for one minute as a mother you’re even co sidering putting your child in so much danger.

Stalking is illegal and you’re both doing it. You’re complicit and sitting watching him do it. Words fail me. She and her children are in great danger and you’re complicit in watching him behave this way.

I was a fucking lunatic after my ex left. He'd ring to change dc contact for the 95th time and I would lose the plot. He'd withhold cm and I would be fucking livid. And I could be because for the first time in years I knew he couldn't beat the shit out of me if I kicked off. I hadn't learned the grey rock thing by that point; I could not shut up anymore. Many exes are crazy - I was more than driven to it. He apparently recorded my conversations so he could take me to court for full custody. He doesn't even see dd monthly now. I was the mental ex and I wouldn't take him back for all the money in the world. She might be crazy - by the sounds of what he's been doing, he is kicking her crazy 's arse.

I am sure this is all hard to hear but his version is just that, his version of how their relationship ended.

My ex convinced the OW that we weren't married and the only reason I was still living in the house with him was I was moving overseas soon and he was just being such a wonderful man to let me stay until I had my move sorted.

The truth was, he was still looking me in the eyes, telling me he loved me and we had just got back from 2 romantic holidays when I found out about his 2 year affair.

Some people are very good liars. I believed in the beginning the stories he said about his ex and while not best friends, I truly feel for her now. Of course I got a big dose of reality when after the separation I found his 1st divorce papers detailing physical, emotional and verbal abuse to his 1st wife and children.

You are now sitting there while instead of spending quality time with you he is obsessing and stalking his ex.

If you aren't careful, you could be like the OW in my story, I actually have a photo taken from inside her car and you can see her as she was sitting spending a Saturday night outside my house helping my ex "check up" on me to make sure the house was ok....

OP hasn't actually told us why their relationship ended. I stronly suspect that she doesn't actually know th ereal reason. What a mess OP.

You really do need this man out of your life. He is bad bad news

I think the OP might know very well why his previous relationship ended.

She ‘s known him very well for a very long time, well enough to be completely sure his version of events is correct, and yet is so completely separated from the rest of his life that she had never met his children, his wife, etc.

How many scenarios fit?

You might be right Slapdash

This must be very hard for you OP. I agree with others - please tell someone in real life.

It isn't just that he clearly is still fixated and upset about the split. It is how he reacts to this. He seems to have no sense of appropriate boundaries and feels his children and ex wife are his to track. This is very worrying.

I'm not sure how counselling will help? If he goes to individual counselling maybe it will get him over her properly. Maybe eventually he will understand that he is controlling and possessive beyond the norm. That is a long road and I don't see much in it for you.

Honestly, I think you need to think about extracating yourself as soon as possible and - one woman to another - I would then tell his ex wife that he is tracking her.

And, OP, at the least, slow everything way way down. Don't move in together. Don't buy a house. Even if you don't want to split right now don't enmesh you and your children and your finances any further with this man.

So OP why won’t you say why he left? Is it because you were the reason?

Let’s be honest, you happily talked about how she is mental, how she turned the kids against him, how all he wants to do is keep track of his children’s whereabouts hence why he is justified in looking at her emails. All this is heavy, heavy stuff and yet you won’t tell posters why he left even though they have repeatedly asked.

Is it because you were the OW? It is isn’t it?

Really feel for you @NameChangeAsThisIsBloodyAwful . Genuinely.

BUT I feel for your child being led down the path with this man more. You have seen a lot of worrying flags - and you have carried on driving past them for the 'benefits' of this relationship. What those are I am not sure.

Your DP is not making good decisions - for whatever reason - and you are devaluing yourself and your child sitting on the sidelines of this behaviour while it continues.

You do deserve better. You sound shocked reading this feedback. If I was you I would take at least a couple of weeks out of this relationship and have a very serious think. It's really, really not good.

Forget about counselling for him. You could benefit from counselling yourself.

He told you the stalking checking up was to avoid bumping into her ..You believed that..and were okay with it... .until he was so frustrated about not knowing her location when he was at home with no chance of bumping into her. Then you clicked that it really wasn't about the kids...and that's what's brought you to MN. That you know he's obsessed with his Ex ... and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

That means he's reading her social arrangement...knew where she was going in advance and probably who she was going with .

This is seriously obsessive behaviour.

There is another person on MN who reads her Ex Hs emails. I think it's wrong...but nobody has the guts to tell her this. Yet she'd be livid if he was doing the same. It's a total invasion of privacy and such behaviour sheds light on the character of that person, more than the Ex who she constantly rants about.

It's inexcusabl/illegal to stalk and read private mail.

OP he's obsessed with her ...It's nit about the kids. I can see him at work checking where she is.

He'll know everything she buys online... that's so very wrong and you must know this .

This is a quite shocking thread, for a number of reasons. I hate how it's turned quite quickly from supporting the OP to abusing her.

OP, I'm going to give you credit for knowing your DP better than a bunch of strangers on the internet. But equally, I think that now you've started to look at his behaviour with a critical eye, you can't leave it there. I think you need to deliver an ultimatum. He needs to hear from you how unacceptable the stalking and the email reading are and he needs to stop it now. He also needs to get professional help with his feelings about his ex - it's quite clear that for whatever reason he hasn't let go/moved on, on the grandest of grand scales - and he needs to be honest with a counsellor/therapist about what he's been doing and deal with the consequences.

But you need to take action too. You need to take a big fat step back from this - no moving in together, no house purchases, no marriage plans. The best case scenario here is that this man is really pretty fucked up. He hasn't moved on from his marriage and he hasn't committed himself emotionally to you. In the circumstances you would be mad to see this as a relationship with a future at the moment, and depending on how well he rises to the challenge of sorting out his problems, you need to be prepared to walk away completely.

Just thinking about practical things you could do to help this situation -- could you send an anonymous email or note to the ex-wife and children, suggesting that they should change all of their passwords as you have reason to believe that their accounts have been accessed without their permission?

He is not free to marry you. Back off, tell him to sort himself out, use the time to sort your head out. See how it looks after he is divorced.
Keep running shoes handy.

Sorry OP you are deluded.

Good luck you are so going to need it.

Just thinking about practical things you could do to help this situation -- could you send an anonymous email or note to the ex-wife and children, suggesting that they should change all of their passwords as you have reason to believe that their accounts have been accessed without their permission?

I’m not sure that’s such a great idea since he is probably reading the OP’s emails too!

A relationships of only a year and a half shouldn't be creating this much anguish and confusion. Why make life so complicated. If it isn't working or it isn't fun then it's time to move on.

The ex wants him back and he cannot stop thinking about her.

Not good for you.

Nonoyesyes - well done you for showing some empathy with the op rather than judgement and blame. I can understand people’s frustration and anger over what this man is doing, however, expecting someone to step out of the fog immediately and accusing them of being crazy, complicit and a risk to their child when they can’t is just unreasonable and hysterical. C’mon people, where’s the compassion?

Op take some time to reflect and do it at your pace. Please don’t take the abuse to heart. You sound like a caring, patient person and your child is lucky to have you x

I've come back to this thread hoping for an update with my details.

The fact that these older teens won't see him is a major red flag. If the mum had been manipulating them when they were younger, the children would have immediately called their Dad and asked to live with him as soon as they had their own private communication means like phones/laptops. There are lots of stories on here where the xw uses parental alienation to keep the kids away but the kids call when they are older asking to live with Dad. There's definitely stuff that your partner is hiding from you. Take it from me, a mum to a 17 year old who won't talk to his Dad, you can't tell teens what to do. Wanting to know where his kids are is bollocks btw- my 17 year old goes out alone 99% of the time and a good chunk of it is school.

I have looked at the social media of people that I've broken up with. Not stalked or hacked them btw! Once a person is over the relationship, they don't feel the need to look. Trust me, I've been there. She is taking up a piece of his heart and mind. How can you believe that he fully loves you?

People get angry after a long term relationship breaks down. Especially if it's unexpected or the other person can't articulate why. If your partner was shady or lied while with her, the relationship with you will compound that and make her angry. Does he accept responsibility for his part in the breakup?

Does he talk about his relationship with the kids. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that if he's good with your kids that he must be good with his too. While experience can make us better parents, don't forget that he has to be on his best behaviour with your kids in order for you to stay.