DP tracking his ExW and reading her emails.

[NameChangeAsThisIsBloodyAwful]

Urgh. This is really messing with my head.

So, DP has been separated for 2 years. Divorce in progress. He left. There are 2 older teenage DCs. We have been together 1.5 years, it's serious and we will be moving in together.

Basically, without writing a novel, there are a few issues at play here. He tracks his ex wife on Find My IPhone - he has the password. He says he does it to see where his children are (on same cloud), and so that he doesn't ever have to bump into exw. I've been unhappy with this as it smacks of not letting go, and of control - not to mention legal implications of invasion of privacy.
Thing is, it's not just for the kids. The exw had a night out on Saturday and he kept checking to see where she was and was frustrated that her phone seemed to be offline.
We rowed about it. I told him he needs to let go. He told me that he has let go, but because of the nature of the split - she took it very badly and it's impacted massively on his relationship with his children who took their mum's side and don't really want to see him, that he does it to feel part of the children's lives still...or something,

It's not only that. He regularly checks her email. He also has that password - she isn't technogically minded, and he set up all these things when they were still together. He says he does it see if there are any emails regarding a sport his eldest dc takes part in, as the exw is telling him nothing anymore. I think that is also completely unacceptable.

Further, he's been very reticent about telling her that he has a new relationship. I accepted that due to the precarious nature of his relationship with his kids and didn't want to rock the boat. However, at this stage we are serious about a future together. The other week we were spotted by a relative of the exw who reported back to her that we had been seen together. She text him to ask if he was with someone else, and expressed that he had promised to tell her if he was seeing someone new, and that it hurt to hear second hand (totally reasonable of her in my opinion) and that she (and the kids, she always involves them) would like the truth from him.

He text her back minimising everything, saying it was someone he had very recently started seeing and that it was far too soon to tell the children.
Lies. Total lies. We've been together since 2016. He has met my entire family and child many times. We have had family holidays together and we are going to be buying a house together.

He is just so scared she will use anything against him to create an even worse relationship with his children.

To say I'm fed up of all of this is a huge understatement. We also rowed about his reply to her text. I understand he would have preferred to tell her that he was in a relationship and not for her to hear it second hand, but he should have told her before, in my opinion. And now that she knows something, he should have been more honest. Not to rub her nose in it, but not to minimise me and make me feel like a nothing in his life.

The rest of our relationship is excellent, otherwise I'd not be able to cope with his.

I don't know what to do about this though. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or he is. I am looking for some advice on how to handle it.

No context justifies abuse. Many victims of abuse offer up reasons why it ha]ens. I did so myself. But abuse is abuse. It is simply unbelievable that he has moved to this level of coercive control so readily after leaving the marriage. And towards you as well as his XW. He is coercing you into accepting his illegal stalking of her and also into agreeing to keeping your relationship secret by making you feel sorry for him, and responsible for his "recovery". That is just what we know about. That added to his DC refusing to see him suggests a skilled and practiced abuser. And a dangerous one.

None of the stuff about how his XW matters. It may be true or not. She has almost certainly been a victim of his gaslighting.

You need to get out. You need to help her. I suggest not contacting her but asking WA for advice here. The only way he will stop is probably by due process. He is a very dangerous man.

You only know what he has told you about his divorce, his kids and his ex. As you know OP there are always two sides to a story.

It is obvious you don't see this as a severe a crime as the rest of us....but it you do one thing please notify the ex.

Please tell her to change all her passwords on PC, email, social media, phone & banking (even if you do this by an anonymous message notifying her that her passwords have been compromised) she will not necessarily link the breach to your DP.

I wouldn't tell her because it may increase the risk to her. She may well still be emeshed in the abuse herself . He doesn't need to be tipped off.

The more I read of this, the person i feel most sorry for is the OP child.
Poor lamb is going to be moved in with this man, no choice in the matter.
How can you not want better for your child, let alone yourself.
What are you going to do when the exw finds out and informs the Police?
You can't say you didn't know and he will drop you in it to normalise his behaviour.
I didn't think it was wrong as namechange new about it and didn't think it wrong You'll look great to everyone with a partner and sd to your child that has restraining order and possibly Police record.
No way would any decent parent put their child through this just to be a bit on the side until something better came along.
God, it's disgusting.

No she shouldn't tell him she is telling the ex. I think it would put her at significant risk of danger and harm.

The ex needs to be warned though. Maybe women's aid can advise. Maybe notifying the police is the safest answer. I don't know. I'm genuinely at a loss as to how someone can sit and watch this happen.

A significant problem is going to arise when the ex starts seeing someone new. This man isn't going to accept it. I guess that's why he's tracking her on nights out. It's going to be a major danger point for the ex wife. She really needs to know what's happening to her so she is prepared as she may come to real harm.

OP your update is frankly gob smacking.
He is NOT the victim here. The women HE LEFT and IS STALKING is. You are minimising and justifying all of this.
More fool you if you continue with this relationship. You are now complicit in the criminal activity against another woman and you have let a man that you know is a liar and an abuser into your child's life. If your self esteem is so bad that you think this is a good relationship and he is a good man, that's one thing, but to put your child through it is another altogether.

He questions himself every day what he did wrong that the kids don't want to have much to do with him, and I can't answer that either, I just don't know.

They're teens and therefore not as easily manipulated as small children... They probably didn't just refuse contact for nothing.

However, let's assume he doesn't know what he did / thinks his actions were justified... Just like stalking and invasions it privacy are justified?

Delusional isn't an attractive quality...

He showed you who he is / how he treats people.

And yet you choose to stay with him. You don't have children together, no financial commitments, it seems like you're financially independent... And yet you stay.

I suppose you'll need to be vigilant about your passwords for the rest of your life. But if that's what you want...?

Nothing we can do to change that, obviously.

Good luck, I suppose.

Sounds like you're going to need it.

Btw, the fact that you won't tell the ex-wife or their children (seems like he stalks them as well)?

It makes you complicit imo. I hope it won't escalate (when she gets a boyfriend, e.g....). That would make you culpable as well imo.

Idk, maybe I'm being too harsh. But this is imo the reality of your actions / inaction.

Poor lamb is going to be moved in with this man, no choice in the matter

I don't think that's a risk to be honest. He doesn't want the ex to even know about the op and is blithely lying she is nothing to him, so he won't want to be living with the op. That's too easily discoverable.

But otherwise I agree, I feel sorry for the kid, because she's being involved in this against her will. I also feel very worried for the ex wife and she's at risk.

Hopefully the OP child will say something at school when they are actually living together and the school will contact the authorities.
It seems the only chance for the OP child to be protected from all this, because she isn't going to protect her child.

I'm not a naive woman. I'm separated myself, though have a much more sane relationship with my ex

Probably because your ex doesn't stalk you. Or invades your privacy...

People don't just wake up one day with a completely changed personality / decide to cross multiple lines...

This is who he is.

He could treat you like this, in the future.

Run.

What he's doing is illegal it's harassment and you are colluding in it. Wtf us wrong with you? I've had an ex do this time it's horrible and it escalated very badly for me while his new non girlfriend, that's you btw, aided and abetted him. Woman up and tell her and the police or you are as bad as him.

OP I would like to add that it is very rare on Mumsnet that replies are all in such strong agreement.

Please don't minimise the significance of this.

Well, it sounds like you aren't planning on telling her, presumably because you think it could get him into serious trouble, with the police. If you're keeping quiet so that the police don't get involved, then this is not actually a relationship worth being in, is it? In which case you might just as well alert her to what is going on. Unless you are OK with having a boyfriend whose actions could realistically get you into trouble with the police.

From your silence on the subject I would also imagine that you haven't met any of his friends or family, or anyone who would be able to vouch for him or corroborate any of his story. However lovely he may otherwise appear despite the large "Stalker" sign on his forehead, you need to carefully consider whether you want your daughter involved with someone whom you have personally heard telling lies (in this case about your relationship) and otherwise know very little about for sure.

I will continue to be the lone voice that says your dp needs support and understanding to get through this, not castigation.

Yes, he needs to stop doing it. Yes, he needs to tell his ex about you.
But his actions speak of a man who is hugely damaged by the repercussions of leaving his ex and his children. Without knowing more about their relationships it is irresponsible to suggest he was controlling before the separation etc.

Has he tried counselling? Have they tried mediation?
Are they actually divorced?
Does he communicate at all with the children? These are the things that need to be looked at.
Stalking is doing him no favours at all as if any of them find out that will be the end of any chance he had.

And on a practical note, the sporting activity that dc does, can he not get details of the events sent to him as father?

terrier if you found out an ex and his girlfriend had been tracking your movements through your phone, reading your emails, knew when you were and weren't at home what you were doing and with who would you be ok with it? Would you still be saying poor love he needs a but I'd love bombing he'll be fine?

According to the British legal system, he does actually need "castigating", as he has committed a crime. Whether he also needs support, e.g. from a mental health professional, is not really relevant to OP as she has only been his gf for 18 months.

@terrier Would you be this understanding of your ex partner stalking you?

I will continue to be the lone voice that says your dp needs support and understanding to get through this, not castigation.

Then further down:
Stalking is doing him no favours at all as if any of them find out that will be the end of any chance he had.

If you acknowledge that what he is doing is stalking, then you need to appreciate that it is not appropriate to be sympathetic and supportive to "help him get through this".

Here is a link to a very good leaflet from the Suzy Lamplugh Trust which explains that risk assessing stalkers is complex and they can escalate at any time. It also points out that trying to reason with a stalker is not a good idea and is also unlikely to be unsuccessful. This is because stalking is not normal behaviour - it is an obsessive fixation. By following your advice the OP could be placing herself and her young child in considerable danger.

But by all means do continue to suggest that the OP needs to "fix" him with her love and understanding and ignore the fact that it's not her responsibility, it's not the sign of a healthy relationship and that he's breaking the fucking law

Jesus OP, I think you've got the picture by now but this is horrendous!

He's stalking his ex-wife and either already is or most likely will do this to you in the future.

The rest of your relationship can't possibly be excellent, he is a stalker, and very very weird, don't minimise it!

Op you can't possibly have a balanced grasp of what's going on because you only know what you've been told by him. You may well have heard her angry as helm on the phone, but you don't know what other tricks he's thrown at her. Adult kids would not side with their mother and not want anything to do with their father unless something happened. If he wanted a balanced relationship with them (separately) he'd not be hiding your relationship. There's much more to this than you think. Even without the creepy stalking this guy is not what he seems. Stop making excuses for him. He's not even treating you properly, let alone her. Wake up and smell the shit!

Run.

Because the worst thing about him stalking his ex is the effect it has on him.
FFS.

My ex was doing all this to me after we split. I posted about it on here but was told the legalities were a grey area. I am heartened to read that most of the commenters here think it’s as unacceptable as I did. He also replied to one of the emails pretending to be me!!!