Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Refusing to engage logically in arguments

69 replies

wormbook · 25/06/2018 13:51

There a theme to how my husband behaves when we're trying to resolve something, which is how he acts when I point out something that he can't think of a sensible response to.

Small things like this escalate: yesterday, lots of flies about, so earlier in the day, I'd ask that people keep the kitchen bin closed. After dinner, I was scraping stuff into the bin, when he came into the kitchen with more plates. I finished, stepped back and he stepped forward to do his, while I left the room. 10 mins later I returned to an empty kitchen and an open bin, so next time I saw him I said in a perfectly relaxed voice, "oh, don't forget about shutting the bin - there's raw chicken bits in there, and there are flies about".

Him: "I left it how I found it".

Me: "well yes, but that's because I was using it when you came in. You waited, then I stepped back for you to use it".

Him: "I left it open because I found it open".

Me: "Well yes, I just explained that. It would have been weird for me to close the bin lid when you were standing there so you could re-open it yourself! You commented a couple of hours ago how many flies were about, so we said we'd keep the bin closed".

Him: growls something about how impossible I am and how he can't do anything right and stomps out of room.

I don't understand why he can't just say "oh oops, I forgot", and the moment would pass. He sees me asking him to do things as controlling and critical, although he can't explain why those descriptions don't apply to him when the roles are reversed and it's him doing the asking. If I point out this is a double standard, he'll say/shout, "I don't know, I DON'T KNOW it just feels different when it's you!!"

He will not talk to resolve anything. He shouts, strops, sulks, walks off, makes declarations about my awfulness, uses sarcasm and exaggeration, while I'm just standing there quietly saying, "please, can you lower your voice, think about what we're saying, and talk to me". I really didn't think adults behaved like this until I lived with him.

OP posts:
GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 25/06/2018 13:54

He shouts, strops, sulks, walks off, makes declarations about my awfulness, uses sarcasm and exaggeration

He sounds horrible. Has he got ANY redeeming qualities?

Must be like living with an overgrown teenager. Do you have any children together? If not, DO NOT! You have way more patience than me.

Afterthestorm · 25/06/2018 13:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpecialAgentNobody · 25/06/2018 13:56

What a knob end. In my experience, this never gets better - only worse.

wormbook · 25/06/2018 14:18

We do have a child, who is 8. I did want more than one, but he said he thought I wouldn't be able to cope with more than one on my own for half the week (he partly works away), and if he ended up having to change jobs to be nearer home, he'd resent me forever.

It's things like when I point out the double standards that I find baffling - why he doesn't want to take a look at himself and wonder whether there's something going on. I have found therapy very helpful in examining why I think and act the way I do, but he objects to the idea of it, even Relate. He said he'll go with me if I make him, but honestly, I don't want to go to Relate with someone who has to be dragged there. That's not the role I want for myself. He got quite angry about it all.

Once, I asked him not to get angry at me for having a difference of opinion. His response was that: "why shouldn't I get angry at you!? Why isn't it your responsibility not to mind me getting angry at you?"

It's as if he can't he hear himself.

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 25/06/2018 14:20

The only good thing about this bloke is that he works away from home for half the week.

How do you feel when he's away, compared to when he's home? Are you glad to see him return, or glad to see him go?

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 25/06/2018 14:26

"why shouldn't I get angry at you!? Why isn't it your responsibility not to mind me getting angry at you?"

he said he thought I wouldn't be able to cope with more than one on my own for half the week

What an arsehole! Seriously! Why are you with him?

JaneJeffer · 25/06/2018 14:26

I would say "close the bin please" and then just walk away.

Afterthestorm · 25/06/2018 14:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FinallyHere · 25/06/2018 14:31

Why isn't it your responsibility not to mind me getting angry at you?"

I think you are a saint for not pointing out exactly why this is not your responsibility, its because no-one should have to like like that. And if he thinks that that is OK, you have some very serious thinking to do.

As PP has said, look after yourself. You matter too...

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 25/06/2018 14:32

So you’ve put up with this for 9+ years? How? I would have shoved a screwdriver in my ear to not hear his stupid answers by now. He sounds so ridiculous. How do you do it?

FinallyHere · 25/06/2018 14:32

should have to like like that. makes no sense, I meant 'should have to live like that'

VetOnCall · 25/06/2018 14:42

Jesus Christ, I don't often post on these threads but he sounds like just about the biggest arsehole in existence. I'd have killed the fucker in a matter of days if I had to put up with that shit. You can tie yourself in knots trying to understand him and why he acts like a total dick, but after all this time it's more than likely because he in fact is a total dick. I'd direct my time and energy to something much more productive, like divorcing him.

FilledSoda · 25/06/2018 14:44

You won't fix him , no amount of logic will make him suddenly see the error of his ways.
He's a dick.
Do you want to divorce ?

wormbook · 25/06/2018 14:50

Back when I still felt we should collaborate to try and work it all out, I made the mistake of showing him examples of how what he does looks like EA; now that's he learnt some of the language, he turns it on to me! He likes calling me a gas lighter. I did go to a Relate appointment on my own and described some of the lighter stuff he did (ignoring me when presented with facts, mocking) and she said he sounded controlling.

It's been almost 15 years. I used to be very insecure and had very bad self esteem, and was grateful to be in a relationship. Now I don't have bad self esteem. That's probably why it no longer works!

OP posts:
Onemansoapopera · 25/06/2018 14:53

How about "close the fucking bin?" And dispense with the amateur psychological dissection between you both? Quick and easy.

thelatestone · 25/06/2018 15:00

My Husband sounds similar. He has only three responses to issues I raise; Deny the reality of what I am saying, attack me (verbally) or defend himself.

Like you said, why not simply apologise or say 'sorry I forgot' why defend every little thing no matter how obviously indefensible. What's wrong with being a fucking grown up?

H won't look at himself either. When I try to point out patterns in his behaviour, he accuses me of 'remembering every little thing and letting nothing go'. Yes, I can't let it go as you keep on bloody doing it.

I sympathise.

wormbook · 25/06/2018 15:02

Have to go get DS from school now.

Thank you for the thoughts and advice. I am going to think over some things.

OP posts:
thelatestone · 25/06/2018 15:23

You can tie yourself in knots trying to understand him and why he acts like a total dick, but after all this time it's more than likely because he in fact is a total dick. I'd direct my time and energy to something much more productive, like divorcing him

Yup, this,this. this. This is what I have wasted years of my life doing, trying to understand him.. Ultimately, it doesn't matter why he is like this. He is, he won't change and I deserve a better life than this. I am planning a way to get out. You should too.

Onemansoapopera · 25/06/2018 15:32

Nobody should change. If you don't fit, you don't fit.

mummmy2017 · 25/06/2018 15:38

Stop doing thinks for him then use his own arguments against him.
Put the lid down just as he is about to use the bin. And say I know you don't like me to leave it up as it confuses you.
If he says you can't cope with 2 children tell him yes you see that from when he is home.

Candypinkstars · 25/06/2018 15:55

Immature with mummy issues.

The reason it 'feels different' with you is he feels like a child. Hence you (parent) will have to drag him (child) to relate.

He won't change until after you've left. A few years after if he ever does.

Hont1986 · 25/06/2018 15:57

"oh, don't forget about shutting the bin - there's raw chicken bits in there, and there are flies about"

I'm not saying that this is how you said it, but I can definitely see that coming off as a passive-aggressive telling-off. And if that is how he perceived it, then it would get his back up and get a defensive response.

The rest of the description of him makes him sound pretty bad so I am sure that it is all coming from his side.

Shoxfordian · 25/06/2018 16:09

Life is just too short for this shit

WesternMeadowlark · 25/06/2018 16:22

"I don't know, I DON'T KNOW it just feels different when it's you!!"

So a psychopath, then, who doesn't see other people as human beings. I'm being semi-serious, not armchair-diagnosing. Though Candypinkstars' idea about the parent-child dynamic is an interesting one.

But of course it doesn't really matter. It's amazing what psychological issues you can deal with and live with - in yourself or someone else - if the interest in managing/recovering from them is there. If that interest isn't there, they can be quite small and you're still screwed. And his don't sound small.

From the angle of trying to improve things with him, there's no point trying to figure him out, because you could be dead-on and he still wouldn't give a damn. You can't problem-solve with people like this, because they never see that you're on their side. Or perhaps their side looks very different to what you think, and consists of them never having to show any consideration or admit they're wrong.

If you want to figure him out, I'd suggest you restrict that to being part of your recovery after ending the relationship, and something to refer to when helping your child understand what went on when they get older.

It sounds like you've really grown as a person since starting this relationship, which is brilliant. I think the stress of it will probably affect your health if you stay, though. He is abusive, but if you're not comfortable describing him that way just yet, or you're in a more generous mood, you could look at this as you simply having outgrown him, and him not being interested in growing with you.

Disquieted1 · 25/06/2018 16:28

In every argument each person believes they are being reasonable. All the same, I think there's something missing here.
Based on the first post I was thinking 'Big deal. If you wanted the bin closed, just close it. No point in having a pop at him over something so trivial.'

Then the second post says he's questioned your abilities as a mother; you have had therapy; he accuses you of gaslighting...
All quite a big step up from the original post about the bin lid!

What's really going on here?