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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this fair?

103 replies

Choccablock · 11/06/2018 21:58

Well today marks the day I start treating DH like he treats me.

I often feel invisible. He is glued to his phone/laptop/PC at all times. Breakfast is him sat on the sofa, laptop on lap, watching TV loudly, eating breakfast with one hand and often his phone in the other. (Yep, 3 screens at once...)
No interaction, I have to pretty much beg to have breakfast together at the table (and even that involves scrolling Reddit on his phone)

90% of evenings he spends in the office gaming loudly with his headset on. On the rare occasion he comes downstairs and Im watching TV myself, he walks in takes the TV remote, Huffs at the 'crap' I'm watching and changes the channel.

Twice this week he insisted we carried on with sex while the newborn baby cried and cried. I felt really horrible but wanted to believe he was right (he says if the baby has been fed/changed then baby needs to learn that it won't get attention everytime he cries)

So tonight he asked me for a sock so he could 'do his thing', expecting me to act all sexy and into his horny.... (Normally I absolutely would get into the mood. Even when I've had a shit day with our toddler/exhausted from pregnancy/ feeling fat andhideous post birth) But thought I just layed there and carried on ebay shopping. I kissed him back, but instead of getting 'into the moment' I held my phone behind his head. Kissed him with eyes open and continued to scroll through eBay.

Instead of working out what clothes left on the floor are dirty to be washed or clean enough to be worn for a second day (jeans, jumpers etc) I'll just shove them into his cupboard and he can work it out.

I don't know why I'm writing this. I just need a place to tell someone. I feel very lonely and sad. My husband is selfish, right? Or is it the postpartum hormones?

OP posts:
Singlenotsingle · 12/06/2018 09:27

That must have been a relief, NellMangel? That's the waytogo!

AFistfulofDolores1 · 12/06/2018 09:30

I've never not been in a relationship.

Try not being in one. It might change your life.

Singlenotsingle · 12/06/2018 09:41

You need to talk to him, tell him how you feel and that things have got to change. You need to be treated like a real person, you need attention, interaction and consideration, otherwise this relationship may not have a future. I don't think it's at breaking point just yet, but it's close. What's with the changing the TV channel? (If I'm in the lounge watching something that DP isn't interested in, he watches something on his tablet, with his earphones on).

It would be a shame to junk the whole family set up if he can change.

And give him a supply of socks! You can't put the used ones in the washing machine! Gross!

Choccablock · 12/06/2018 09:46

singlenotsingle thank you
You've made me feel a little more positive. I think it's close to breaking point. But he has no idea.

I don't want to junk in the whole family. We are just starting out, it's all so new and we are finding our place still. We have finally just bought our first house and had our second child. I'm struggling to work out how to fix this situation I have found (put) myself.

I am not very clear and concise (as I'm sure you can read from my posts!) So I think I am going to write it down in a letter of some kind and give it to him face to face and talk through it with him.

OP posts:
AgathaF · 12/06/2018 10:05

You need to talk to him, tell him how you feel and that things have got to change - he's an abuser, I'm not convinced he's going to listen.

Chocca, by all means try talking to him, or giving him a letter. But please, have a point at which you will say enough is enough. You shouldn't be living like this.

LB2203 · 12/06/2018 10:10

You're not stupid, you were just targeted.

Everybody has some good qualities, good moments. Nobody is 100% terrible 100% of the time. But that doesn't mean we have to accept being mistreated, because sometimes they bother to (pretend to) be kind and loving towards us.

Do you treat people you love the way he treats you?

None of us are perfect, it's part of being human. But there is a huge difference between human imperfections and wilful mistreatment of the other people in our lives.

A decent but imperfect human would listen to your concerns and discuss them with you.

A decent but imperfect human would apologise for their mistakes without blaming you. They'd learn from them and take care not to repeat them (and I don't mean for a day or two, I mean long term).

A decent but imperfect human would help care for his sons. He would cherish his baby. He would be asking you how he could make your life easier. He might make mistakes or be unenthusiastic about changing nappies, but he'd be there, part of it. He wouldn't be able to listen to his newborn baby crying and prevent anybody responding.

A decent but imperfect human would never force you to continue having sex when you wanted to stop. He would listen to you and respect you, and be sad to realise he'd hurt or upset you.

I understand that you're not ready or comfortable to label his behaviour as abusive. That's fine. It took me a long time too.

Abusive men aren't outwardly abusive all the time. There will be moments where they seem calm, loving, happy. Moments where they buy unexpected gifts. If they were cruel all the time they would never be able to get their hooks into anyone. Nobody would accept someone who was cruel all the time from day one.

But when there are time where they're not cruel, not controlling, and instead make us feel special or loved or noticed or appreciated or laugh with us, it gets harder. We love them so we want to believe that the 10 minutes of kindness amidst the hours of being ignored and mistreated and upset are the "real them".

We want to believe that if only we try harder, do more, achieve perfection, don't stress them out with our neediness, meet their sexual needs, listen to what they tell us to do, don't question them... that we will get more of the person we fell in love with. That we'll get the "real them" back.

Unfortunately the real them is the person who believes it's ok to mistreat people who love you. We can't change them, because they don't want to change. This works for them. They get what they want from it. The fact that he doesn't want to change is evidenced by the fact that even when he tells you he will he doesn't bother for more than a couple of days. That's not somebody who is trying to change or intends to change.

You mentioned that you don't think you could cope as a single parent. But other than him doing a few odd jobs, it sounds like you already are. He doesn't lift a finger for your newborn and even stops you caring for him.

Don't you think being a single parent might actually be easier than that?

There'd be nobody to stop you, nobody interfering in developing a bond with your baby. Nobody making your doubt your own instincts, or undermining your own judgment about how best to care for them.

Somebody already asked you if you want your boys to grow up thinking this is a normal and acceptable way to treat the women in their lives.

Do you want them to grow up thinking this is how they deserve to be treated?

That when they cry they don't deserve to be comforted?

That they can't rely on you to be there for them when they need you?

Recognising that you deserve better, and your sons deserve better, that none of you deserve to be mistreated, that you won't tolerate it... Recognising that the future you want is not compatible with living this way... It doesn't mean you stop loving him. I know it's not that simple snd we can't just switch off our feelings. But sometimes you have to love yourself more than. You have to love your boys more. You have to value your own life and your boys' lives more.

It's ok to accept that you will always love him, but that what is right for you is that you don't live like this anymore. That you need your future to be different and you're going to take steps to achieve that.

You don't need to have decided that you want to leave. You just need to be prepared to think about your future openly. That's enough right now.

I understand calling Women's Aid might seem too much. I understand too what it's like when people start telling you you're being abused and it seems ridiculous and impossible and dramatic. I've been there. I was adamant those people were being unfair to him and I felt I should defend him, and remind them that I shared responsibility, that he wasn't all bad. But I still started seeking out information.

The Freedom Programme will never tell you that you have to leave. They won't tell you what to do. But they will share information with you. They can tell you what abuse really looks like (not the dramatic images in the media, the really obvious violence, but the subtle, gradual, drip drip drip of abuse), they can tell you what a healthy albeit imperfect relationship looks like. They can tell you the impact all this is having on your sons, and how they have the potential to bounce back from it if you do leave. They can give you tools for your future. And they can validate what's happening to you without any "I told you so" comments or judgement.

They have a website, freedomprogramme.co.uk, if you just want to dip your toes in. (Which is what I did to start with, and then shook my head and said "this is just a misunderstanding". But I had questions, and I wanted answers. I wanted to understand why other people saw abuse where I didn't. So I accepted a place on their course.) They also have a phone line and email address you can use to contact them. They won't tell you to leave.

You don't have to have any intention of leaving to go on their course, and if you do go you won't have to share anything you don't want to. It's not like AA on TV where you stand up in front of everyone and tell them about your life. I think the only words I spoke my first few weeks were to confirm my name when I arrived, and hello/goodbye. I just sat and listened.

I actually repeated the course a second time, because the first time around I was in such shock that what they were describing reflected my life so accurately I couldn't process it. I was hard, but I used to promise myself a treat afterwards for each week I sat through. I am extremely glad I went.

From the practical side, lots of them take place during the day with a crèche, so it will just seem like you're going to a children's or play group. It's not advertised where you are or what you're doing there.

Failing that, there is an online version. Although if you can I would encourage you to go to a course at some point too. You can take a lot more from it.

It's just a place to gather information that might help you. Knowledge really is power. It's up to you what you do with it, but I reckon you're far stronger and much more capable than you give yourself credit for.

LB2203 · 12/06/2018 10:17

Deciding that you and your sons deserve better than to be mistreated isn't "junking in" your family. A family doesn't involved on person mistreating all the other members of that family and causing them harm. A healthy family unit doesn't feature abuse.

By all means give him a letter. But take note of how he responds to it. If he blames you, dismisses you, cites hormones, turns it around on you, promises the earth but then continues unchanged... That will tell you everything you need to know.

Deciding you won't tolerate being mistreated anymore, or that you don't want your children growing up witnessing and affected by it, isn't giving up, it isn't destroying a family - it is protecting and safeguarding and nurturing your family. It's one of the bravest things anyone can do.

Choccablock · 12/06/2018 10:26

LB2203 I've read your post twice and I really appreciate your time and compassion
I'm sorry to hear you have been through a similar relationship.

I am going to look up this Freedom Program. I have to go to an appointment this morning. But this course sounds like something really helpful. My head is a web of confusion at the moment and it sounds like The Freedom programme might help.
I need to know if my relationship is normal. I worry im overreacting and making a bigger deal of things.

I will reply back later xx

OP posts:
AlwaysVacant · 12/06/2018 10:53

Being a guy makes reading mumsnet very depressing sometimes. I really hope some of you out there have happy, "normal" relationships with nice people.

From a male perspective OP your partner sounds an absolute weapon. Neither you nor your children deserve that treatment and you're all missing out on the many positives a decent father can bring.

HollowTalk · 12/06/2018 11:01

It's an eye-opener, isn't it, AlwaysVacant?

letsdolunch321 · 12/06/2018 11:23

I don’t understand the attraction of having sex with a man like your partner OP !!! He has no interest in you or the dcs - the situation will only get worse, it is what he thinks is normal.

Trust me on this, my exh had very similar traits - it was all about him even when my then 8yr old ds told his daddy “you have so many other interests before you think of your children” Course daddy was put out by this comment - but nothing changed Confused

He is a selfish, self obsessed narcissistic specimen.

If he needs to release himself he should do it in the bathroom and tidy up after himself. Wanking into a sock - disgusting behaviour, does he think he is part of Kevin & Perry!?!

MrsBartlettforthewin · 12/06/2018 11:36

my mum is a no-go. Her and DH dispise each other. To talk to her about this would confirm all her nasty OTT beliefs about him and would probably say "I told you so". She would encourage me to divorce him. But I don't want that. I've never not been in a relationship.

Has your mum always had nasty OTT reactions to things or is it just towards your H? Is it actually that he has separated you from your mum by making out that she hates him doesn't understand etc?

You also said you had no real friends has it always been like this or is it since you met your H?

What ever you decide to do please see that his treatment of you is not normal. No caring man would insist on continuing sex when their partner clearly didn't want to.

hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2018 11:42

Listen to your mother!
She is right about this one!
Talk to her. Tell her she was right and you need her help and support now to get him gone!

Being single is great.
No-one to pander to.
Eat what you want.
Drink what you want.
Watch what you want on TV.
No conflict in parenting.
Smoothly run household.
No extra washing.
No extra cooking.
No extra cleaning and tidying up.
The whole bed to yourself.
Quiet time for you to read or do a hobby.
It's pure bliss.
Trust me!!!!

sugarnotsweetener · 12/06/2018 12:08

The bit about your baby made me so so sad. As an adult you need affection, this is one of the things you want from your husband in your OP - you want attention ad affection from him.
A baby still needs those things too, it isnt a case of he has a clean bottom and a full tummy let him cry. He needs his mummy (both parents preferably) for cuddles and attention and affection, it is still a very basic need. Your husband putting his own sexual release before that is just awful - i really would not be able to get passed that at all.

Choccablock · 12/06/2018 12:21

When I do ask him to talk. He says "go on then- what do you want to talk about" then gets cross that I don't have anything in mind to discuss. Or says "I don't have anything to talk about"

I just want to talk to him sometimes. About nothing in particular. Just conversation, anything really. Im not a particularly chatty person at all. I just want to connect. It seems the only way we connect is through sex.... And I'm realising that I will go along with anything sexual because it's the only way we connect...

Although literally 5-10seconds after sex he will roll over and reach for his phone. This really hurts. (He says it's a natural after effect of sex for a man. When a man finishes, he has done his bit and that's why he doesn't want to touch/ cuddle any more)
He says if I want to cuddle, make sure I do it before be have sex. That way he will be interested.

God the more I write it down the worse it sounds. Sorry if I'm sounding whingey and obviously don't reply if you don't want to.

OP posts:
HalfDutchGirl · 12/06/2018 12:36

He sounds truly ghastly Chocca. I like to see the best in everyone but honestly I can't see anything nice about your DH at all.

It is not (in my experience) natural for someone to immediately after sex reach for their phone and again (in my experience) not want to cuddle afterwards.

You're apologising for being whingey?!! Don't be daft! You have every right - you are worth far more than being with someone like him.

AgathaF · 12/06/2018 12:45

You're not being whingey. The things he does are shocking to someone not in your situation, which is why you've had the responses you've had. No-one wants to think of another person having to live this live that you're living. Of course you want to talk to him, to connect. That's what being in a relationship is about, whether it's as partners, child/parent, siblings, whatever. But it doesn't sound like your sex life with him is even remotely about connecting either. Rather, it's about him getting his own way, using you, putting his own wants (because they are wants not needs) way before anybody else's. Has he always been like this? How long have you been together?

Choccablock · 12/06/2018 13:24

halfdutch I'd be really interested to see if others have this issue with mobile phones immediately after sex. At first I thought it was so rude. But just got used to it.

We have been together 8 years. Only married 2 years. We are relatively young- late 20s, early 30s.

I think he has always had the tendancy to be like this. But it wasn't so bad before we were married.

It has nothing to do with my current relationship with my DH. But in my past relationship my favourite thing in the world was an after sex cuddle. It was so intimate and relaxing. I wish I could do this with my husband but he isn't interested.

I don't want to be with my ex at all (I haven't even heard from him or about him in years). But he was far better at communicating. And now the honeymoon period seems to be over with my DH. It makes me think back at the things I miss in previous relationships.

OP posts:
AgathaF · 12/06/2018 13:28

At first I thought it was so rude - it is rude. Unbelievably so. And cold and uncaring.

Do you have friends you can talk to about this? What do other people apart from your Mum think about him?

Choccablock · 12/06/2018 13:32

I'm too embarrassed to talk about it in RL
I have one friend who is in the same position in life (married with a child). But I don't want to burden her with my issues as she is having a tough time in life right now.

My other friends are either not very close or a completely different stage in life.

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 12/06/2018 13:35

I'm a completely different stage in life than my 2 best friends but I know and I certainly hope, they would come to me if they needed to sound off or want some advice.
Don't shut people out because you feel 'embarrassed'
You have nothing to be embarrassed about.
It's all on him!!!!
The sooner you realise that, the better.

AlwaysVacant · 12/06/2018 13:50

It's an eye-opener, isn't it, AlwaysVacant? Yeah. Not a pleasant one.

For the record Chocca, if I reached for my phone straight after sex my wife would wing it straight out of the window.

She'd be right to do so!

SlothSlothSloth · 12/06/2018 14:09

Oh Chocca you poor thing 💐

What I’m getting from your posts is that you have very low self esteem. I therefore understand that leaving him might feel impossible right now. That’s okay. You don’t need to leave him immediately. But you DO need to leave him at some point, at least if you want to be happy and if you want to save your children from replicating this kind of relationship.

Whether it’s a month, a year, or three years from now, leaving needs to be your aim. Stop worrying about little games that make things “equal” because this relationship will never be equal.

I know much has already been said about the awfulness of the sex/baby situation, but just to add that asking for a sock to wank into while you “act horny” (presumably without actually feeling horny) is also NOT a normal sexual interaction and the fact you mentioned this so casually in your OP makes me think you truly have no frame of reference for a healthy and mutually rewarding relationship/sex life.

Please try to channel the energy you’re currently spending on vainly trying to get his attention into focusing on yourself. Are you financially independent? If not, start by thinking about ways you could be. Do you have hobbies and interests outside the family? If not, work on cultivating them. Build your confidence and leaving will gradually become less and less daunting.

Good luck, Chocca. You and your children deserve the very best. Never forget that.

Wtfisthis11 · 12/06/2018 14:10

For the record, no the phone thing after sex is not 'normal' or 'natural', it's him being rude, dismissive, selfish and showing no regard for you or your feelings, he's telling you you've served your purpose Angry

2blueshoes · 12/06/2018 14:29

Bettybaggins shit in his sock first 😂

Seriously though, op, all the things you are saying are the things that need to change.

If he asks you to be all sexy while he meets the sock, say no, tell him you don't want to do that (never mind ebaying at the time, that didn't work, did it). You need a serious conversation about all the things that piss you off.

It's not ok for him to change Chanel when he comes in the room, you can find something you both want to watch. If the baby needs you, the baby comes first - non negotiable. There are times he needs to put his phone down, meal times are one of them.

Good luck op 💐