Do you think your children love you?Or,- do you love your mother?

[Fengshui]

This is just a rather depressed musing really.

I don't love my mother. I don't like her much either. She had untreated depression when I was growing up and was abusive-physically and emotionally. I tolerate her at best. I am 45.

I can't imagine what it is like to love your mother. I am closely involved with her, but this is mostly motivated by guilt and obligation.

I have two children, the eldest is nearly 9 and today when we were arguing (I would not buy him something) he said the most truly awful things to me.I realised that although I love my children desperately, completely and utterly, I do not actually expect them to love me back. Some of it is because I can't imagine anyone loving me but also I can't quite understand the idea of loving your mother.

I know my son knows I love him completely. I don't actually expect that back. I surround them in a bubble of love and concern and attention. I'm not expecting them to validate me in any way- but I wonder if it is even possible to be a mother who is genuinely loved by her children. Uncomplicated , non-guilt-based love.

I know that sounds rambling,but does any of it make sense?

I love my daughter unconditionally. I don't expect her to love me back, but I do demand respect and good manners. I think she does love me though. I have a lack of self-esteem and worry I'm not doing a good enough job. Which leads me to my mother.

Mum is a selfish, cold fish. I can be a selfish, cold fish. I didn't get much hugs growing up. My dad is the same. Nobody admits they love each other in my family. Even when my brother was seriously ill a few years back, a perfect opportunity to take stock, and my family totally fucked it up.

My daughter used to tell my parents that she loves them, and they get embarrassed and it gets awkward. They give her hugs but it's all very forced and lacking in feeling.

I have given up ringing once a week to listen to deafening silences at the other end. I email weekly and send the occasional WhatsApp message. They live 70 miles away and we used to visit often. But now we visit once a year. My mum is only interested in having my house when we are away (free holidays) and putting me down about my weight. My daughter hates going but it feels like we have to go out of duty.

My in-laws are always rowing, falling out, shouting and banging doors. They are noisy, but passionate and loving. They tell each other they love each other all the time. My daughter takes after them. I still struggle with admitting love, or feeling worthy of love.

I absolutely adore my mother - as in, would choose to spend time with her wherever possible. I do not have the same feelings for my father, who made it very plain he did not want children and did not like me. Nothing actively horrible or abusive, just the absence of the good stuff. So I can see both sides of this.

Your post made me feel really sorry OP xx

I love my parents (or I suppose I should say loved in the case of Mum, who sadly died a few years ago - but that feeling of love and being loved is still alive in me) because fundamentally they deserved it, they were good, warm parents. What they reaped, they sowed in my love for them. A lot of my love is internalised into my ethos and outlook. For instance, when Mum died at a hard time for me, my love and admiration for her bravery made me brave.

This doesn't mean they had no faults or that I didn't say horrible things at the age your son is. Like many young people I'll have done that because I needed to push boundaries and work out who I was and it felt safe to do so, and to be fair they may have been annoying sometimes! It isn't pleasant but it's pretty universal.

The kind of difficult upbringing you describe, that perhaps slowly deadened the possibility of an adult love for your parents in you, is light years away from the meaning of your child being horrible to you, when you are such a different parent. It's a harsh irony of what you've been through that you are forced to compare the two - it's so unfair.

I'm not going to say that your children won't find you annoying, or get grumpy with you when they are older ;) But the sort of feeling you describe that your kids have of being loved by you, that brings you together in a circle of warmth and connection, is much more likely to be what lasts. It is likely to be reflected both back at you, but also to feed and enrich your children's outlook.

I don’t live my mother either, don’t even like her. She EA me all my life and I’ve been NC for almost 10 years which suits me fine.

As for my own children I think they’ve all told me today that they love me. Even 14yo DD1 said Mum I really love you even though we fight all the time, it’s because we are so alike.

I love my mum but she’s very reserved - difficult to “know”. I really want my children to know me, certainly by the time they’re grown. I really don’t know much about my mums thoughts/feelings/hopes/dreams even now 🙁

my mother was at best dutiful (I was fed and watered, clothed) though she was emotionally unavailable, uninterested in my education, aspirations, preferences,

she once actually said she is not interested in my life when telling me she finds it boring to have a phone conversation with me

she doesn't actually know what I do for a living, as in specialism/field but generally knows what my job title does,

I, in turn, am dutiful, though dp says I go over and above what she 'deserves', and try to make her life more pleasant ( gifts, lunches out, outings, occasional holidays even though she plays all of these down and minimises any enjoyment she derives,)

I dont love her, but I think I'm still, even though I'm nearly 60, trying to get her to love me, the way she absolutely and without reservation, loves my brother.

I think she just doesn't like women, including her own daughter, but I cant cast her off for that.

I love my mum because she's a great mum. I love my kids and my kids love me. Doesn't mean they don't say hurtful things sometimes!

I think many autistic kids lack empathy and don't understand love at all. Those I know are abusive to their parents and are difficult children to raise.
NT kids are equally capable of saying and doing mean things. It's how they learn about relationships, boundaries and forgiveness.

Oh OP, how sad he managed to hit your most sensitive button just by throwing around a concept he has been taught at school and doesn't even fully understand!

May I recommend the book "Running on empty" by Jonice Webb? The concept is that even children who have had the most abusive upbringings, one of the most long-lasting and painful effects is the inevitable emotional neglect they suffered as a result, and how it affects them into adulthood. I found it so deeply validating, as my father was emotionally neglectful for sure, and sometimes also a bully and verging on verbally abusive. But it was the emotional neglect that caused me so much pain. This book helped me validate what he did was wrong, but start to take some responsibility for my own emotional self-care; it re-trains you to notice and pay attention to your emotions, which our parents were incapable of doing, or chose not to do.

But children can love their parents. I loved my mum (she sadly passed away). But think about what age it took for you to know real love (for your DH, your friends, your children). Love is a huge concept but I have no doubts you are a wonderful mother and your children will love you. Perhaps the only gift we can take from being treated shittily as kids is that I think most decent people learn to go the complete other way and be so loving and attentive... (Other than those who repeat the patterns, god help their families).

Stay strong, you are doing great (and well done for not buying him another treat, the little scoundrel - that is not abuse!! )

Green th lacking empathy thing is a bit of a myth re autistic kids.It is more that they process things differently and manifest it slightly differently and people assume they feel little when IME with DS1 he feels things so deeply it is overwhelming for him. DC1 is actually incredibly empathetic. He becomes frightened and distressed if someone else is hurt or cries and tries to make things better by giving them his precious toys and games.

Just wanted to say that because that myth is quite a hurtful stereotype for people on the spectrum.

DS1 actually has no idea what it was he said to me or what it really means. He was throwing it out there as his understanding is quite simplistic. We had alot of talking last night, and he does not really get it,but understands better now how words can really hurt.

Thankyou every single one of you who posted. It has helped immensely. It might be time to go back to counselling because my parents are both getting older and the pressue has begun about us moving to be closer to them etc to look after them in their old age.

Someone up thread asked me about my father.....tricky there too. They stayed with us recently and I had not realised how much he puts her down. He used to be the parent who largely protected me, so the scales fell a bit there. He undermines her.

My children are all in their 40s and I have several GCs. The nicest compliment I have ever received was this. When they were out drinking together one night, they said that they wanted to raise their children in exactly the same way that they were raised. When this was repeated to me I burst into tears.

I spent the whole of their life worrying that they woukd dislike me once they reached adulthood. have 2 sons and a daughter and I wanted to make the most of them as I just assumed that when they grew up they would not want to know me.

The truth is that we are all really good friends. We visit each other, we all help each other out and have occasional holidays together. They are very close to one another and their children are close to their cousins.

I understand your post fully. I learned fro my Mother everything that you should never do.

Sorry I posted to soon. She was the worse sort of mother ever. Sly and underhand with her remarks and actions. However all my friends and relatives thought she was the great. She was a consummate actress and I was labelled as precious and too sensitive

Just to give one example, I was a skinny kid and found eating quite difficult. My breasts did not grow until I was 14, but she did not buy me a bra. She always dressed me very young for my age. At a family party, where I was wearing a white tshirt , with 5 uncles, aunts and assorted cousins she said loudly, “Thank god she is growing a pair of titties at last. I began to think she was a boy”

Fortunately my own children where never take. In by her. Although I never told them how awful my childhood was, I think they sensed it.

I feel really sad when I read about the love people have for their mother and feeling loved. I have never really felt loved by my mother, and i don't really love her . I feel sadness and guilt about the relationship or lack of it that i have with her. I don't feel we really know each other. She has never been a support to me, and i have always felt she's more interested in herself than anyone else.

I love my mum. I was lucky, I got an amazing mum. I also love my kids. The 2 loves are not the same. I (like most parents) would put my kids safety and well-being above pretty much anything else. My love for my mum is knowing that she feels that way about me.
I had slightly difficult births, and although the inlaws were lovely, they were focussed on the baby. My mum cared primarily aboutme. (Freeing up husband to focus on baby as per my instructions!)
I would make sacrifices for my kids that I wouldn't want or expect them to make for me. Mum loves me the same way I love my kids (mine are primary age so no conclusion as to if I've done a good job yet!)

Yeah, I love my mum because she's awesome. I like to think I grew up a decent guy, and I always felt my parents were one of the main reasons for that. I felt that my ability to be a kind, decent person came from them.

Then I met a girl, we'll call her S. Just a friend, I call her the little sister I never had. We go for a drink now and again just to unload all our shit on each other. She's amazing. But her mum is shit, and selfish, and gave her a hideous childhood. S ended up getting custody of her heavily disabled little sister when it turned out her alcoholic mother had allowed one of her stream of alcoholic flings abuse the little sister.

S had a baby recently, her first. She is going to be an amazing mother. Her partner is great and seems really good father material. That baby will have a fantastic childhood.

I had it easy. My childhood was warm and loving. Being a decent person wasn't really an effort for me - the examples of how to be that were present for me for day one. I always think it's so amazing when someone like S, or you, gets the opposite - a cold, unloving mother, and instead of developing the same character, rejects it and instead lets it drive them to be better. I always wonder if I could have been that strong. I just don't know.

Yes I love my mother. I even love my father, although not nearly as much, because hes hard work to be around and a bit of a narcissist, but I do have love for him.

Im pretty sure my kids love me. They all seem to, and want my attention and they all talk to me and want to be around me. They also tell me.

my mother has never loved me. i have known this since i have been old enough to know anything. i used to crave her love.

she is old now, and we have been no contact for 12 years. i still wish she’d loved me. but, she doesn’t, and i learned from an early age to squash down the hurt and not let it show.

my life has been a mediocre one, at best. i have never been very good at anything. so, she was right in the end. heh.

No, I don’t love my mother. I became conscious of that around the age of 8-ish I think.
My kids are primary school age and I’m confident they love me.

My own mother was violent, physically and mental abusive towards me, tried to foster me out, sent me to boarding school for kids with issues (I’ve no idea what my issues were, I was on a social services child at risk register thing), sent me to paternal relatives every school holiday,...
My other 3siblings were not treated like this. They are my half siblings.
She married again.

She has explained that she had a hormonal imbalance which caused her temper and behaviour in my childhood, and that her own mother was never physcially affectionate towards her (so I presume she never bonded with me as her firstborn baby).
Does not explain why her hormonal balance didn’t extend to the other siblings though

Anyway, as a consequence, I left home early at 18 and rarely stayed in touch or visited family. I was always much closer and connected to my paternal family - Aunt, Grandparents.

A couple of my siblings accuse me of being cold (and ridiculously embellish that to me being a sociopath or even psychopath) because I have no feelings for my own mother. But you wouldn’t, would you, if someone has treated you badly for your whole childhood.

They don’t seem to remember much about how I was treated, one of them was too young probably, and the middle one used to sit there blankly whilst I was hit, (she’s grown into an adult bully), and my brother used to defend me against my Mum sometimes, stepping between us when she was trying to hit me. I presume he’s just in denial about that as an adult.

I won’t feel a loss when she dies, but it will be sad to think she lost a relationship with her firstborn.
She tries to redress the past and has been a good Nanny, but she still has that nasty side which manifests as sneaky passive aggressiveness and meddling, she allowed my violent ex to lodge with her for instance, knowing he’d strangled me, put me in hospital, etc. and colluded with him on an online hate campaign against me on social media, but she’s certainly calmer in her old age.

I already anticipate the tension at the funeral from a couple of my siblings who won’t undertsand why I feel nothing, and the drama from one of them (the bully sister).
I’ve never tried to fix the issue of my childhood, never tried to explain it to my siblings, their childhood was probably more stable than mine and there’s no way I’m going to change their rosy view of their own mother. That’s unfair and unnecessary.

I don’t feel damaged, but I’ve attracted violent romantic relationships in my life, and I’ve been subject to theft and bullying from one of my sisters.

Anyway, I’ve made a conscious effort with my own children to be the mother that mine wasn’t. I’ve never laid a finger on them, they’re warm and affectionate to everyone around them, and they’re still relatively on apron strings at their older primary school age. Importantly though, they enjoy a normal relationship with my mother. Just about.

Sorry to hijack, I’m debating whether to press send on this post or not as it’s so long, but maybe something will resonate here with someone.

Your original post resonates with me. My mother is a narcissist. I am now no contact with her after it all got too toxic. The nc has been about 14 months. I am 49. It took until I had my own children to fully see my mother for what she is. Sadly, she was emotionally abusive, and manipulative, and still would be if she got the chance.

I worried constantly when I first had my eldest that I would be like her. I've calmed down a bit since, he is now 11. But it's always there, that dread that when they grow up they will have some kind of awful memories of me and judge me like I judge her, when the scales fall from their eyes, like they fell from mine.

But, but, I don't think they will. I love them and surround them with it, like you. I tell them how wonderful they are, how loved and loving and kind and good they are (not all at once and not in all circumstances of course!!).

Then I worry that I'm too much the other way and I will suffocate them!

But I won't, I really won't. And neither will you. They will have lovely memories of their mum doing her best. It's just an oddity for me, and for you too it seems, that we have different memories of being mothered by someone who probably shouldn't have had children.

I often think of that Larkin poem, that I won't fuck them up in the way she fucked me up. It will be some different kind of fucking-up of course, but as long as it's nothing like my childhood from that point of view, then it's all good!

Hi OP. I am sure your children love you very much. We can say the meanest things sometimes to the people we love.
I loved my mother very much. She was beautiful. She wasn't perfect by any means but we had a good relationship. She didn't have a good relationship with her own mother however and was rejected. If anything it made her very conscious that she wanted to have a good relationship with us.

I feel just as you described. I adore my children but I assume they loathe me. I have never experienced love. My mother always told me everyone hated me and even though I understand that was a cruel thing to say, I still believe it.

My seven year old DD tells me I am a mean mummy, I obviously don’t love her and that she hates me whenever I put her on time out for bad behaviour. I don’t let it phase me because I absolutely know she doesn’t mean it and is venting in anger. Most of the time she tells me how much she loves me and that I’m her best friend etc. My other DC don’t say things like that to me but they tell me they love me daily and vice versa. Overall we have a positive relationship and I should hope it’s not one built on resentment.

Children say nasty things and act out with the people they feel safest with. My DGM was told this by her GP in the early seventies when her young DS (my uncle) was acting out at home but not at school. My DD is the same, she is an angel at school and only really acts out at home for me. It does just mean they feel comfortable and safe with you.

I don’t have a great relationship with my Mother and never have. We don’t have very much in common and I find her fairly negative and difficult to be around. She never tried to understand me and much of my childhood either consisted of me being ignored or me doing outlandish things purely for her attention. If you emotionally support your DC, they won’t feel that way towards you.

I don't love my mother, I don't think I ever did, I can't remember as a very young child ever feeling loved and cherished by her, just bullied, antagonised, taunted and mocked.
Now I have my own children, I shower them in love, and I feel loved by them.
She wants to be a grandma, but I keep her at arm's length, I don't want her damaging them and triggering me. Only recently she told me I was a horrible, difficult child and she tried her best.
to all of you

Kelly I could have written your post word for word.