DH's sister upset about him wanting to be a known donor

[lifeisarollercoasterbaby]

About 3 months ago some good friends of ours approached us to ask if DH would be a known donor for them, using IVF. We were very surprised by the request, but had several catch ups with them to understand how it would work and the implications, and after much debate decided it was the right thing to do - we both initially had concerns but they were answered and now we're both happy with the process and to go forward.
DH will not be 'dad', but will be a family friend that the child can ask questions of as they grow up, on the research they have done this is good for the child (has been confirmed to us by a child psychologist).
Recently they contacted us, saying that they'd got some advice and that we should inform DH's immediate family - essentially his mum and sister. Our friends said they were happy for his family to have contact with the potential child, but they wouldn't be considered 'grandma' or 'aunty' etc (same as the fact that DH isn't Dad).
So we told them, face to face, explaining why we'd come to the decision.
Enter - disaster!
DH's mum is calm but worried about the impact the potential future child will have on our family... fine, I can understand that - there is risk involved.
DH's sister is angry, hurt and very upset - mainly saying DH is abandoning the child and denying her the right to be an aunty to the child. She's accusing DH of being cold and unloving. She's saying she will love the potential child as much as she loves our own two children and will not accept that she can't see him/her on birthdays, christmas etc.
We've tried talking to her several times but she's now saying she can't sleep, it's affecting her work & life, we've upset her too greatly, we've caused a rift in the family, etc etc.
This has obviously upset DH (and me!) a lot as during her upset periods about this she has said some pretty nasty things about both of us and although she can be a handful, she's his sister and he doesn't want to cause her pain.
Now we had to have IVF and had to consider donor sperm for our treatment, which is maybe why we think about this differently to her. To us, family isn't necessarily genetic - it's so many factors that genes are only a small part of.
So now we're in a dilemma - do we put his sisters feelings first and say no to our friends (even though it feels like emotional blackmail) or do we go ahead and let her hopefully get over it in her own time...
Thoughts?

Have you got a brother too?
It’s intetesting to me that you would be constantly wondering what if was this child, or what if it was that child? When this child will have no connection to you whatsoever. But it will have your sister in laws DNA, eyes, hair or temperament.
When the child grows up, she may be interested in your husband and your sister in law for example, much more than you.
So although it’s a decision you need to think about as a couple, peoples heritage can be extremely important to them.

No, the SIL is causing significant problems within the family due to her unreasonable behaviour

However she’s chosen to express it, it’s not unreasonable for a person to be distressed at having a blood relative, child of their sibling, that they can have no contact with.

You say that your DH would never volunteer to do this just to keep his friends happy. Not sure why he wants to do it then, apart from his friend's happiness what other possible motive could he have?

Because he - probably particularly as someone who struggled to have his own family - thinks it's a good and altruistic thing to do? Plenty of people donate to unknown people for the same reason. I think all OP meant was that the friend wasn't putting extra pressure on or manipulating him into this.

However she’s chosen to express it, it’s not unreasonable for a person to be distressed at having a blood relative, child of their sibling, that they can have no contact with.

People can be 'distressed' about anything they like, but it doesn't mean that they can try and threaten and blackmail people or throw tantrums and say hurtful things to get their own way; nor does it mean that anyone is obliged to take a blind bit of notice of what they want.

Just as an aside - if you nearly needed donor sperm to conceive, surely that means our husband's sperm is unlikely to be "good" enough for IVF?

I should have added to my original post that I think what your DH is doing is a wonderful thing and I hope it all works out well for everyone. I have friends who have used the same process - their son is now 10 and it has all worked out very well, as they had carefully planned. They went on to have a daughter a couple of years later, using the same donor.

The children are aware of who their biological father is and happy with things. They see him 2 or 3 times a year, but he is just viewed as 'Uncle X', a family friend who helped their parents conceive them and stays in touch like any other family friend. He doesn't have children of his own though and will never have any in future (he's gay and married with no intention of having kids), which makes it less complicated.

nor does it mean that anyone is obliged to take a blind bit of notice of what they want

No, they’re not obliged to consider the rest of the family at all. But that in itself may cause problems. And if you remember my original point was the matter was already causing significant issues in the family and it’s not born yet.

Roomba, a 10 year old will have a very different view to a 15 year old or a 20 year old, they're not out of the woods yet.

I’m well aware anonymous donors can be contacted by the child at 18. The men who donate sign up for that.

What is the OP going to do if the child wants to contact her DH (and ditto what is the DH going to do) well before that time? What if they are 6 or 7?

wagil - I've spoken extensively to donor-conceived children and, providing they are aware of their origins from the outset, they don't appear to suffer any longterm psychological damage from being donor conceived. It's secrecy and lying that's an issue.

Having said that, I think using a known donor is fraught with complications as this thread shows - and no child has even been conceived yet (and may never be!)

Hang on a minute, what are you going to tell your own children about this? It could have quite a big impact on them to know their father is effectively having a baby with someone in another family.

DH and I will continue to see these friends at the frequency we currently see them (couple of times a year) and when the child is of the appropriate age they will know he is their donor and will grow up with that being the norm. So yes there might be some awkward questions as the child reaches the age where they can understand and we’re both happy to deal with that when it comes.
Our friends have even offered that same level of contact (once or twice a year) to DHs Mum & sis if they wanted... which I think is very good of them and will help with questions again from the potential child.
I don’t have a brother, but I do have a sister and I’ve tried to relate to how I’d feel if she donated an egg - to be honest I’d be surprised but again don’t think I’d feel this strong family connection that DHs sis and Mum seem to feel.
And yes, when I said DH isn’t just doing this to make them happy what I should have said is that he isn’t being pressurised into this. He feels it is the right thing to do for many reasons.

I think the main thing that this has highlighted is that your SIL is absolutely someone you should be very wary of allowing too close to your family.

Her entitlement is breathtaking. No, it isn't any of her business. It's very worrying to see the extent of what she believes are her 'rights' over you and your DH, your relationship, your family.

Those who compared the situation to deciding to abort a pregnancy make a good point. Would anyone ever assume that being an extended family member gives them a say, as theoretically, they are 'affected' by the decision in 'losing' what would technically be a blood relative? The notion is insane and utterly nauseating.

This is on the same level - it's absolutely a totally private decision between you and your DH. Her argument is nonsensical - she may as well argue that your decision to have only two children has denied her the chance of a third niece/nephew. The child will not be her niece or nephew whether she likes it or not, because that decision has already been taken - in the same way you and your DH, for example, decided to stop at two children.

Extended family members just do not get to have a say in the decisions a couple make about their big life choices on the grounds of being 'family'/ 'linked by DNA' - it doesn't give you a say. It just doesn't. SIL has no respect for this. I can only assume that if you were to try and move abroad she would have the same reaction. You aren't allowed. I'm your sister and that gives me a say in your personal, private life. NO.

You shouldn't have told her, obviously, and the one thing I would take away from this is -never include her again. Never tell her stuff, because what she will take from that is, they're telling me because I have to know. They're running things by me. I'm involved. I get a (hysterical, selfish, knee-jerk) say in it.

What I would do now is discuss the issue with your friends and then cut SIL out. Make the decision as it should be made - entirely without reference to a completely incidental person.

And then, if you decide to go ahead, lie to SIL. Sadly, this has shown that that is your most sensible option. It really is nothing to do with her anyway and I would put at the forefront here the people who matter - you and your friends. She's shown she can't grasp the position she is actually in - ie not a decision-making one - and she has already expressed that she will interfere - so, she gets cut out completely.

And watch her after this. Make sure she isn't too involved with your kids especially. Nice aunty, yes. Decision maker and pushy sticky beak - no.

No, if you go ahead I would absolutely advise that your DH's mum and sister know nothing about it.

It's a delicate situation which, handled carefully and the way you and your DH and friends seem to be approaching it - could work out well.

Your MIL and SIL are light years away from this and it sounds as if your SIL would purposely set out to upset the apple cart. That really can't be allowed to happen. That could cause a massive amount of damage to a child. The only reason I now think you should definitely pull out is if your DH doesn't feel he can go ahead without them knowing.

I'm astonished at your SIL's assertion that she'd wade in and demand contact. Again, one lesson to take from this is to bloody well keep her at arm's length with your own family.

No, if you go ahead I would absolutely advise that your DH's mum and sister know nothing about it

It's a really bad idea to set up secrets in families. The truth will always out. Secrets when they come out cause all kinds of damage.

The SIL’s reaction aside for a minute, this makes absolutely no sense.

Here we have a couple who are so desperate to have a baby that they are prepared to go down the donor route. Ecxept they are wanting to go down that route with someone whose own sperm count is so low that they themselves almost weren’t able to have children of their own. That doesn’t look like they are so desperate to have a baby to me, in fact it looks as if they’re going to throw your dh’s sperm at it just to see if it works out or not. Not only that, they have asked him to do it.

Now while I absolutely know that many couples do just try to see what happens, the infertility route is vastly different as it is incredibly stressful to go through. People generally only go down that route if they are absolutely certain, and there’s no way I’d be happy for my husband donating sperm to a couple who clearly haven’t thought it through, given he will know the child but won’t be in its life so to speak.

If this couple were absolutely committed to having a baby there is absolutely no way they’d just be taking a passing shot with someone whose sperm count is below average to the point they almost had to have donor sperm for their own children. They’d be doing everything possible to maximise their chances. For that reason alone I would be advising your dh to not even think about going there.

emerald
Wow... ok. So we know they absolutely have thought this through. As I said in a previous post my DHs sperm count improved significantly since making some lifestyle changes. Since those changes we’ve had one round of IVF, they collected 7 eggs of which 5 became viable embryos, this has given us two beautiful DCs. So we know his sperm are working through ICSI, and our friends are aware of this too and are going to use ICSI too.
It costs far too much money to just chuck sperm in and see if it works!

I personally think it's a terrible idea but it's your life and actually has nothing to do with you. I am not that surprised that it is upsetting the people who will be closely blood related to a child they'll never see.

When you were thinking of a donor for yourself OP, did you consider if any of your friends might be a possible candidate?

When it is relatively safe and easy to get a sperm donor who matches the criteria you want, I can't understand using a male friend who's married with children. Why add that complication if you don't need to?

I do believe that the decision is absolutely your DH's and yours to make, but your MIL, in particular, will always think of the grandchild she doesn't know, that's just human nature.

It's a really bad idea to set up secrets in families.

But that's just it - it isn't a 'family secret'. It's their personal business.

Would you describe a couple deciding to terminate a pregnancy and not telling wider family a 'secret'?

Or if the DH had decided to donate sperm anonymously instead - so same outcome - and his sister went batshit over it? 'My brother's sperm is my business' - jesus!

The mistake here was telling them at all. It is absolutely none of their business and is NOT 'family' business - the child that might be born of this would belong to and be the child of ANOTHER FAMILY.

They have no right to know about personal nuclear family decisions whose outcome actually will NOT affect them at all. Except in the head of one entitled SIL who has already asserted that she would be prepared to doorstep the legal parents of this child and start talking about her 'rights'. She will not be family.

The mistake here has been OP and DH being advised to even give the nod to considering this the business of any wider family - the implicatons of that mistake are now being played out.

All I can say is, thank God there is presumably no adoption within the close family - this SIL would not handle that at all well, I can imagine.

While I do think that the SIL’s response is disproportionate, even if the DH had donated sperm to a stranger it would become her business if the offspring of that donation decided to contact him or more importantly, to find their wider biological family in eighteen years time.

While people say that if a child is born to a couple as a result of donation they will only see those parents as their parents, this is incredibly naive, and in fact the reason why anonymous sperm donation has been removed in the UK was precisely because of many children’s wish to explore their heritage when they grew up.

I knew a few children growing up who were adopted, and all of them without exception wondered about their biological family, even those who were absolutely content with their adoptive parents. But very few of them felt they could discuss it with their adoptiv parents as they felt it would be hurtful to them. I would imagine that the children conceived through donor conception would be no different, bearing in mind that it’s only relatively recently that children became less available to adopt as babies for instance, meaning that most won’t have had any memories of a life before being born or entering into what is essentially an adoptive world.

The mistake here was telling them at all. It is absolutely none of their business and is NOT 'family' business - the child that might be born of this would belong to and be the child of ANOTHER FAMILY.

Why is it the business of the OP, who will neither be biologically related to the child, nor carry it in her womb, nor care for it as a parent, but not the business of the DH's family, who WILL be related to it?

I wonder why it's advised to tell close family. If I was the DM or DS, I would rather not know.

It’s not like a termination Fizzy which could feasibly be kept between the couple. This scenario is more like one partner having a secret child within their social circle.

OP says herself that research shows that the optimum scenario is that both sets of parents are open and honest with the child from the start. They can’t be fully open and honest if one part of the family doesn’t know and needs to be kept in the dark.

How on earth do you realistically think this could be kept secret now?

Friends suddenly have new son who’s the spit of DH. Friends have to be kept separate from SIL and GPs, can never be invited to the same events. No photos of this child can be seen by rest of the family on FB.

When he gets older he may ask for a closer relationship with his bio father, which may include being invited to family events, or to get to know his aunt and grandmother, which puts a bomb under the whole thing.

People do have the right to know if they have a living blood relation, which is one of the many reasons why UK donor children are now able to search for their bio parents.

I wonder why it's advised to tell close family. If I was the DM or DS, I would rather not know.
Because the child will likely want to know their biological relatives at some point and it might be a bit of a shock if they just turned up.