Ex DH has basically ruined DD's life by being a Disney dad

[CocoAndRose]

I've name changed for this as it will probably be quite identifying.

I have a DD who is 20. I split from her father when she was 11 months old as he was emotionally abusive and also became physically abusive when she was born. He told me when I split up with him that he would do everything to ensure that DD hated me when she was older and that he would do everything possible to make life as awkward as possible for me.

Over the years whenever she has seen him he has stuck true to his word, as have his family. He always let her do whatever she wanted, whether that was to sit in the bath for 8 hours, eat nothing but chocolate for 48 hours, or wear a swimsuit and no coat in the middle of winter! He would never make her brush her teeth or have her hair brushed, and would tell her to do naughty things when she was with me, such as "always run off in shops when mummy is paying at the till".

As she got older he carried on with Disney dad and also constantly would run DH and I down to her (I met my DH when DD was 3), and tell her that my other DD and DS weren't her real siblings . He also still encouraged her to do naughty things and just be generally disobedient, and of course because she was allowed to do anything she wanted at her dad's house, she refused to take any notice of any rules at home and at school. He told her that "education is for snobs" throughout secondary school and to muck around at school as school is for fun and the main thing is that you're happy. He has also always told her not to go to university as it's "for snobs" and "useless".

She did ok at school, but nowhere near as well as she could have done as she is a lovely bright girl. She then went to college to basically muck around and has so far done three different courses in three years and failed them all as she just mucks around. She also, upon leaving school, moved in with her dad as she didn't like us having rules at home.

So now she is 20 and has a very, very part time job in a shop (I'm talking 8 hours per week or less), and just spends the rest of her time dossing around at her dad's house. She has been spoiled by him and has quite a bad attitude and just doesn't want to work and wants everyone else to subsidise her. I've tried to help her find other jobs, or to try to find a suitable college course but she doesn't want to as life is for having fun apparently! I've suggested she goes travelling but he vetoed that and then she didn't want to go after he gave his opinion!

I'm just so fucked off with the whole situation. Ex has basically ruined her life really. Like I said she is a bright young lady and could have a really good career or could go travelling and really see the world, or even just have a full time job.

I'm just so angry about it all!

Hm my guess is she'll be looking for a boyfriend to carry on subsidizing her. It's what she's been taught to expect. It might work out okay for her.

People do mature enough to critically assess their childhoods, their parents and their lives thus far. It’s not necessarily a case of it being inevitable that she’ll transfer the dependency to someone else.

The only trouble is that it might take ten years to gain the necessary perspective.

Thanks Battleax. My children's father is a very manipulative high functioning alcoholic who has very weak boundaries and thinks nothing of getting pissed in front of his children, offering teenagers in the family (not mine yet) alcohol in a pretend harmless way eg "FGS just let the lad have a pint!" He's very convincing and has destroyed me and blackened my character over the years to anyone who would listen and they have believed him. However he keeps it all under control just enough that I can't justify keeping the kids away from him. How could my children understand and learn to manage those complex behaviours when they have to see him, if I don't acknowledge their concerns and give them coping skills to deal with him? They know it's not right, if they try to talk to me or upset by his behaviour and I just sit there refusing to acknowledge or validate their worries then I am not doing my job as a parent, which is to help them manage difficult situations and protect themselves when he pushes at their boundaries.

highhorse what a spiteful post! No need for that at all!

Thanks to everyone who has been helpful, constructive and supportive with their replies. I'm glad some of you can see where I am coming from on this.

I was thinking how alike OP and my past were. The details are different but very similar back story.
XH didn't pay child support, was barred from seeing DC. He waited till they were adults and re-appeared. I thought I had raised people with decent abilities to reason things out but apparently not. He is retelling history and they are believing his words.
There is a lot to do with who a child keeps company with. My DC were at a decent school but as soon as they were able to go out alone they seemed to search out the most awful people, some of the facts on this are on records with the authorities.
Like Blue Anchor my DC are living in areas I would never have even taken them into. The state of houses is quite shocking. They are now heavily involved with in lifestyles they never saw with me.
All of this is encouraged by X.
I totally agree that they are adults and should be let to realise how stupid they have been. The problem is that there are young children living in their lives in these circumstances and that I am not happy about at all.
I have no idea what to do. DCs have been seen abusing me and trying to destroy me. I have to leave them to their choice of lifestyle, the worry is the young children. It is sad for them because it is not their choice and they seem to like some of my ways that they don't get at their home.

coco

I totally understand what you are saying and have been in your position.

I think a parent can certainly have a major influence on a child even if they see them less than the resident parent. The dynamics of relationships are so complicated I think it’s entirely possible that he has done what the op believes.

I agree that good parenting can be undone very quickly by bad parenting.

Ex used to be a real Disney Dad, still is a bit but it took a major falling out between us before he stopped just letting the kids do what they wanted (out of laziness, not malice). They went 2 weekends a month but the effects would last well into the middle of the week after they came home. Rudeness, tantrums, bad sleeping patterns and two of them had problems with digestion as he let them eat junky stuff that he knew they shouldnt (doctor proven) rather than make an effort to cook decent stuff.

It is better now, as I say, but it ook a huge blow up. And his is from a man who would never deliberaely saboage them or our co parenting. If he was spiteful and wanted to ruin my relationship with them, I can see how easy it would be especially when they have mobiles etc and she can ring Daddy whenever Mummy says something she doesnt want to hear and he encourages her to behave badly.

Sadly I also agree that all you can do is wait it out until she hopefully comes to her senses.

Your post is every abused woman's nightmare, OP as are all the 'well you should have done something, then' posts.
My heart goes out to you.
The only hope I can offer is that she is still very young and my be able to break free yet.
Those of you who clearly don't know what the f you are talking about - either f off or find out before you comment.
OP, hang on in there.

I absolutely understand the influence that these kind of people have on their children. I've witnessed it first hand. What a grade A knobhead.

Coco. No advice but a handhold.

And I think that sometimes the NRP is more of an influence on a child.

RP is always there, can be relied upon and trusted. The NRP in many cases (sounds like this one) cannot. In order for Daddy to be nice to her she has to do what he says, he may not have been directly abusive to her but having heard what he has said about the OP, she will have picked up on the fact that the only way to keep Daddy happy is to do as he says.

I do think that that was a major issue with my kids. They didnt kick once at their dads, he always said that tanrtums must be my fault as they never did it for him. I think its because they never felt safe enough to do it, whereas they could with me because they knew that I would still be there to hug them and love them.

As I say, things are different now, but if Ex hadnt taken on board what I was saying to him then I could be in the same situation. There but for the grace of god.....

Exactly the dynamic between my dc and exh pyong. They feel they have to please him more than me as his love comes with conditions.

Hard to have an influence when she is being allowed to run wild, give a child an inch they take a mile especially with another adult encouraging this. It sounds like there is not much you can do now she is too old. How dare someone say it's a cop out. I personally would have stopped all contact with this waster father when she was very young. No one would have argued with this as he was abusive and hard to say to what extent.

If he wants to subsidise her and turn her into a bum, good luck to him. Keep your distance, she'll come back to you eventually.

welhelooo hits it on the head. But is being too nice. These fuckers have only conditions - no love at all - and the poor kids can end up twisting into contorted shapes to win something that just isn't there.

Its easy to say she shoudl have stopped him seeing her, but the legal system was a LOT different 20 years ago. I know because my DD is the same age and her father (yes yes, different to my ex H, so shoot me) was an arsehole. His threats luckily came to nothing and he lost interest when she was 3. But back then there was barely any acknowledgement of physical abuse and absolutely no recognition of emotional abuse or parenal alienation. The Op would have got nowhere in court and probably would have been reprimanded for spiteful herse;f.

if I don't acknowledge their concerns and give them coping skills to deal with him? They know it's not right, if they try to talk to me or upset by his behaviour and I just sit there refusing to acknowledge or validate their worries then I am not doing my job as a parent, which is to help them manage difficult situations and protect themselves when he pushes at their boundaries

Quite right. That is exactly what I had to do with my dd.

I do think though that OP's dd is not particularly doing anything wrong. I didn't finish school and go to university until I was nearly thirty. I did not harm to anyone with my lifestyle, just pursued my interests, which eventually led to wanting to re-enter formal education.

Can I just ask - out of curiosity - if your daughter had ended up being an absolute model citizen would that have been all because of him too?

You can't blame all her bad qualities on him, and all the good on you. You'll both have had influence...good and bad.

Agree that 20 is way too young to write her off though. Stay supportive... sounds like she's just finding her feet

I feel for you, really. But more fool you for allowing him to play the Disney dad and not ever saying anything to her to make her realise what was going on. You didn't want to talk badly about him? So the ONLY voice she ever heard, growing up, was his, denigrating you. YOU let that happen, but firstly not defending yourself, and secondly, not making it clear exactly what sort of a person he was.

That sounds really difficult to deal with.

If she is bright and underachieved, I’d be trying to get her to re-take school exams. Depending on how bad, either GCSEs or A Levels. But I wouldn’t open with that , I’d open with “what career would you like to do”. Then get qualifications in relevant subjects. She sounds ill equipped to embark on adult life

Some nasty comments on here! I was your daughter, and I'm quite pissed off as an adult with how my dad let me behave as a child and teenager. many regrets, many missed opportunities.

Fortunately I had to move back with my mum and managed to get back on rails before it was too late. Of course my dad thinks I've only done so well now because of his parenting.. So thankful now for my mums contribution to my growing up.

Anyways, not a helpful contribution but I believe your story!

Why don't you leave her to her own devices she's not a little child anymore she's an adult.

How's your contract with her do you see each other a lot speak with each other?

I too do believe that children can put NRP on a pedestal especially with a full blown controlling demanding Disney nrp and it becomes a battle at times to steer dc back down to reality that RP isn't going to continue this bs.
Manipulative ex's can cause a lot of emotional turmoil within a young dcs mind during a short window of contact.
My own dc at times would be bombarded with guilt inducing emails/messages between contact. The pressure at times was immense. Dc felt guilty for enjoying any time that their 'df' wasn't present for.

Op your dd is an adult now of sorts and it suits her to hand over the reins of adulthood to your ex for now. She has more growing up to do. She will eventually want a life of her own with maybe a partner or if she sees friends progressing on with their lives away from parents!
And at that point she'll want to move on and away from your ex and forge a life of her own.

Keep including her in your own family life and in time she'll come to the realization that her father is holding her back!

So you had absolutely no influence over her?

Did you think to seek professional advice when he told her to be naughty and run away from you at the till?

Did she not see her friends working hard at school and realise education has a purpose?

Did you no think for one minute as she was growing up and tell her what her dad was up to?

So you had absolutely no influence over her?

In my case, yes but clearly not enough

Did you think to seek professional advice when he told her to be naughty and run away from you at the till?
I am that professional - but if I wasn't what kind of professional advice do you expect??, seriously??*

Did she not see her friends working hard at school and realise education has a purpose?
Yep, in my case he saw all of his grammar school friends working hard, gaining top uni places, as did his siblings and as did I.

Did you no think for one minute as she was growing up and tell her what her dad was up to?
Yep, did that too explaining in age related terminology as appropriate using my professional knowledge and back ground...

Sandy...satisfied that it made no difference? He wanted his fathers acceptance, he wanted to be like him, he wanted an easier option and his father supported all of that.

Blue anchor
I have read both your post.
Sounds awful and u feel dortiu but I have to say - it really does sound like your boy simply takes after his father.
Surrounded by academic success and a strong worth ethic at a grammar school. A mother that represented very different values to his father. And yet he still has ended up where he is.

Yes the NRP has an influence. But school, peers, friends, resident parent and, most crucially, own character - are overwhelmingly more influential.

It’s a difficult pill to swallow.