Help me to get my alcoholic husband out. I'm struggling to move things along!

[Tiddleypops]

I need a little help /talking to /kick up the bum! And I know mumsnetters are the masters of all of the above

I'll try (and fail) to keep the background brief!

I told my husband in February, that I want to separate. He's a 'functioning alcoholic' - and various other issues financial abuse, emotional abuse etc. Despite my best efforts to help him overcome his issues, all that happened is he got worse anyway and I developed major co-dependency issues (textbook case, I know this now!) He's on a path to self destruction that I can't save him from and I know that our young DS and I need to live separately from him to prevent further damage to me or DS.

Anyway, since that first conversation, I have had to have the same conversation again, because - after an initial phase of him being remorseful, threatening suicide and life not being worth living etc., he has moved onto be so completely immersed in denial that he just won't accept it's over (predictable really but I wasn't expecting it!) So we went through it all again and I reiterated that there is no going back and nothing to save in terms of 'us'.
Despite it being spelled out to him he's saying he can't let me go etc and just going on as normal (just without physical contact and not doing things together).

I want him to move out. Our home, mortgage etc is all in my name, I pay most of the bills anyway and am primary carer for our DS, and so for me and DS to be the ones to move out would be a lot more difficult, expensive, and not to mention completely unsettling for DS (unjust also!) I can buy him out.
He earns a lot more than me so could afford to set himself up easily (for now, until he eventually allows his drinking to take his job as well. I don't want this to be my problem).

The problem is, how do I ask him to move out?! I already know the obvious answer is to tell him to move out!! But I'm finding this as big a hurdle as the first time I told him we were over and I think I just need to hear it from outside my own head to help me actually action it.
With co-dependency it's very difficult to stop doing the things I've always done, protecting everyone from his mess, providing way more than I should etc. I'm very accustomed to burying myself and just having to react to him. Although I've managed to detach emotionally, I'm still being a doormat. I'm also scared of him to a point, at some point he will get angry and he's the master of deflecting all blame and issues onto others.

Every day that passes is another day wasted that I am not yet on my path to recovery from this toxic relationship.

I need to grow a backbone and get on with telling him to go (and then crack on with divorce proceedings if he refuses?) Any practical advice on how I actually do this would be gratefully received!

Don’t be so hard on yourself, this is a really difficult situation. I don’t have any magic solutions but maybe incremental baby steps is the way to go. Commit to a series of these over a planned time period.
Eg
Could you declare you are going to help him find a place as it would be good if suitable for DS? Start sending rightmove ads? Could you start planning separate finances and book ‘meetings’ (in morning, presuming your DH drinks later) to discuss whilst DS is elsewhere? Is there a relative or friend of his you can say you want to tell in the hope he could stay there for a short period to give you some space?

For me it would be easy and I'd just kick him out.
However, you aren't quite ready to properly let go yet.
With co-dependency and the conditioning over the years means this will not be easy for you.
Can you afford come therapy/counselling?
Please also contact Al-Anon, if you haven't already, and get some support from them as well.
Do you have family and friends around you?
If so then the first step is to tell them all about it.
Make it real and get it out there.
Put a plan together with timelines.
Keep a dairy of his behaviour.
Womens Aid could also be a good support for you.
They can certainly point in the direction of specialist counsellors in your area.
Writing here was your first step.
Put a step plan together and put into action your 2nd step.
You already know you have to get him out.
So get the support services to help you with it.

Tiddlypops

You have made progress but you still have a fair ways to go.

What legal advice have you sought re both starting divorce proceedings and getting him out of the family home?. It doesn't look like you've done any of this so why is that. The dreaded codependency again?. He clearly does not think you are at all serious about leaving him, after all you are still together in this house of horrors.

Who is more important here ultimately; this man or your son?. I would think it is your son.

If you have not already contacted CODA (see link below) re your codependency issues I would urge you to do so asap for your sake as well as your son's. What you describe is not the relationship model he wants to be learning from.

www.coda-uk.org/

"Every day that passes is another day wasted that I am not yet on my path to recovery from this toxic relationship".

The above you yourself wrote here should be your mantra now. Your own recovery from this will only properly start when you are no longer together, it will not happen or even start until then. Also your own recovery from this will take years, not months. Womens Aid and the Rights of Women are also well worth contacting; they can and will help you here if you contact them.

Thank you for all the advice.

I have got friends on side. They know what is happening and are there for emotional support. I have told a family member - he's my more practical support! I have also been to see a solicitor. As far as the house is concerned (we have no other assets), I would almost certainly retain the house when we divorce especially since I am able to buy him out. He also advised I can't make H move out before this. So if he won't go, then I will have to start divorce proceedings. I think I have to tell him to go first - he may agree that staying in the same house is not going to be sustainable. My friends think he will refuse to go.

I've found an Al Anon meeting near me (couldn't find a CoDA meeting nearby but still a useful resource), and I intend to go in the next few weeks. I'll try Womens Aid too. Counselling sounds like a plan, I want to get my head fixed.

I've just opened a new bank account ready to start untangling finances, so I think I need to make that plan

You've taken some steps - well done. Getting your financial ducks in a row and making sure you have all the key paperwork stored safely (i.e. not in the house) is essential. Speaking to Al-Anon will also help a lot.

But telling him to leave will absolutely be the hardest bit. There's no escaping that - you will have to get through it. I did it with my alcoholic STBXH and in the short term it made things much harder - he ended up with an emergency rehab admission after threatening suicide, he became impossible to live with, in the end he expressed a desire to kill me (this was with the DDs in the house) and I had to call the police to have him removed. So be prepared for tough times.

But the upside? Honestly, a shadow will lift from your house when he has gone. Your life will be so much better. With all the help around you, you will be able to start rebuilding your life - and that of your children. Focus on their future and wellbeing.

Thank you @pointythings, it's really good to hear from someone who has been here and it's out the other side. I dream of the day that shadow is lifted. I just spent an hour snuggled up with DS chatting and making up silly stories. We'll get there, the two of us. Thank you, I feel more determined now to get this seen through.

It will be the hardest part of the process and when it's done the relief will be massive, so please do see it through. The alternative is unthinkable. Your DH may well threaten to harm himself but he is an adult and his choices are not your responsibility. Your son on the other hand needs you do do the right thing for him.

@tiddleypops your story could have been mine. I asked my partner to leave early this year, functional alcoholic with anger issues. He just drank more secretly and was in denial. I then sent him loads of potential places and he did nothing about them. I moved out temporarily (though this might not be the solution for you) but was it had got unbearable . In that time, I sent him a place which ticked all his boxes and even arranged viewings. He couldn’t really say no as it was pretty ideal and grudgingly accepted it.

Honestly now, life is lonely at times but a huge weight has been lifted. It’s now all about me and my children, not the additional worry of what effectively is another child. My ex is also on a path of self destruction, which upsets me but ultimately he needs to figure out how to get through it. Feel free to pm me if you would like.

I am in a very similar situation to you OP. If I ask alcoholic DP to leave he responds with remorse then denial and everything falls back into the same pattern. Reading the suggestions with interest.

Weekend away with friends this weekend, to give my head some space and be ready for the next step. There may be tears....

I think I just need to have a tactic ready for when he starts to blame me for everything, and comes up reasons why this that and the other. I don't need to defend my reasons, just state them, stick to my guns and be consistent in my message no matter how up and down he is. Wish me luck!

Yep dont get drawn in. Good luck

So, I am back and hopeful for more MN words of wisdom!

It's taking a while - we had a few weeks after I posted this, where everything else (outside of our relationship) was a bit of a whirlwind, massive commitments in terms of work and extended family etc. Oh and because I feel completely flawed, weak and useless!

Anyway - finally I told him that we need to talk again, because despite telling him that our marriage is over months ago, we haven't moved any further forwards. I said we are going to be talking about 'next steps', and that I am not willing to carry on in this stalemate/limbo once he is back from a week away he has coming up next month.

He agreed we should talk, but already has preempted the conversation by saying that we'll be talking about "completely opposite things", because I want to split up and he "isn't willing to accept that". He has made it clear that he is anticipating a conversation where he gets to tell me that I am completely unreasonable and that he's not going to accept it's over.

He will pull apart and diminish everything I say, the things he has already said will be repeated, e.g.:
He accepts he has been a bad husband but it's not his fault he was depressed.
He'll say our marriage vows said 'in sickness and in health' and he is sick, so I am betraying my marriage vows.
He'll try to tell me that he is in control of his drinking now (he really is not, he is still drinking every day, he just starts a bit later in the evening!)
He'll say he can change, he can give me a future.
He'll say it's not fair that I should not give him another chance.
He will just say no, it's not happening. He's not willing to split up.
etc. etc. etc.

These are all things he reeled out last time. He seems ever more determined on these things as time goes on. I think he actually must tell himself all this over and over so he is completely convinced on all this.

The ridiculousness of it all (apart from the fact that he long since ruined any chance of a happy marriage) is that last week I found out he already has a profile on an online dating website! I suspect he hasn't actually contacted any women (yet), however this just proves that he doesn't care about me one jot, he just wants to retain his jolly cushy little life.

If I were to pull him up on this he'd wriggle out of this too (checking whether I had a profile, it's because I've hurt him, I am a terrible person because I found out because of checking his emails to see whether he'd received an email I didn't dare ask him about - snooping is generally not something I would ever do and he knows this).

I realise now that he shows some classic traits of emotional abuser.

Sorry, long post - I guess I just need some advice on what to say when I tell him he needs to move out and he just dismisses it and point blank refuses to accept we are splitting up. How do I stick to my guns? How do I get him to actually believe it? He has to be the one to move, I own our house. Otherwise I would have just gone by now.

If you own the house can you not give him notice and then if he kicks up a fuss, get the police to remove him?

We are married, so although everything is in my name, it's the marital home and he doesn't actually have to leave at all - but until he accepts the relationship is over we can't even get to a point where we'd come to financial agreements etc (there is no financial sense in him trying to stay in the house though, I would be able to buy him out).

I think your next step has to be divorce papers. He's not listening to you, and the dating profile is a total piss take.

I tried to get my ex to leave (he was an alcoholic) and he wouldn't. I wasted years on this. I had to get the police involved in the end.

I think at this point your best and only option is to file for divorce, as soon as you possibly can. Talking to him is simply banging your head against a wall. He will never voluntarily move out or even accept that it's really over, so you are going to have to do things the hard way. I'm sorry he's being such an arse.

I know it's hard, but please give up on the idea that if you just phrase it right/ catch him at the right time/ whatever you'll be able to get through to him. Your marriage is over, that is not up for discussion or debate, so it's time to move the legal process forward and get the legal teeth to remove him from your home.

You will not be able to get him to see your point of view so my advice is to stop trying.

He can dismiss and diminish as much as he likes. You don't have to agree with what he says. He is trying to convince you that things are good in your relationship; you must stop trying to convince him the opposite because he will never be convinced.

So don't argue specific points. Be general. "It's not working for me" "I don't want to be with you anymore". Calm and on repeat - like a broken record.

Good luck with Al anon. Remember you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

After reading your update - honestly, even after your divorce is final he won't accept that it's over. You have to stop giving a shiny shit what he thinks about your relationship. You know it's over, you're taking steps to confirm this through the courts, what he thinks in his deluded drunkbrain is now irrelevant.

I think you need to get some proper legal advice. In Scotland for example. you need to have been separated for 1 year to get divorced if both parties consent and 2 years if one party objects. It sounds as though he will make this as difficult for you as possible.

Thank you (again!) for your help.

I think you are right - perhaps during his week away, I go back to solicitor (have had 30 min free general advice but that's it) and crack on with divorce. I suppose I've been hoping we can be amicable, but it's not going to happen is it?

You need to file for divorce & you don’t need his permission to do that. Don’t wait for him to try & talk you out of it all that is doing is delaying the inevitable.
In a way you will be doing him a favour, the marriage is over & you both need to start rebuilding your lives. He may eventually face up to his alcohol problems.

tiddleypops Please don't waste any more time......

I have been where you are now and it took 18 long months to be out the other side.

He has done you a favour with the online dating profile; why are you trying to save your marriage when he evidently doesn't give a damn?

Stop prevaricating and start making things happen......for you and your sons sake.

You can always ring the Al-Anon Helpline 0207 403 0888 - it sounds like you have now hit your rock bottom so please please start helping yourself to get out of this cycle of madness.

Get out ASAP !
I was with a drinker for seven years, I literally begged him to stop, cried loads. No chance. I made the fatal error of having a child with this guy. I love my daughter totally but dear god I wish I could change things. I left with literally a black sack full of stuff - he would not shift ! He just dismissed all I said, it took him six months to leave the house then we rented it out . It sold eventually ! Took two years though 😫he did nothing to the house- I tried my best to decorate etc. I moved two children and myself into a two bed rented box, eventually I bought my own place , I’m always broke but it’s all mine 😀. He is still drinking, his face is bloated and red 😕 eyes blood shot. Hate that he is my daughters father 😒. Hate that I have to see him even . I hope that his passes I think it will as daughter gets older. Don’t have a child with man xx

As someone else has already said, that online dating profile has done you a favour. If you're in England you can file for divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour as he is "seeking inappropriate relationships".

I've tried to argue with an alcoholic and it's impossible, so don't bother wasting your breath. Get the divorce process started while he's away and get the papers served on him when he returns. If he won't leave, get the police involved.

Screenshot evidence of his profile on the dating site ASAP and send it to yourself somewhere he doesn't have access.