Help me to get my alcoholic husband out. I'm struggling to move things along!

[Tiddleypops]

I need a little help /talking to /kick up the bum! And I know mumsnetters are the masters of all of the above

I'll try (and fail) to keep the background brief!

I told my husband in February, that I want to separate. He's a 'functioning alcoholic' - and various other issues financial abuse, emotional abuse etc. Despite my best efforts to help him overcome his issues, all that happened is he got worse anyway and I developed major co-dependency issues (textbook case, I know this now!) He's on a path to self destruction that I can't save him from and I know that our young DS and I need to live separately from him to prevent further damage to me or DS.

Anyway, since that first conversation, I have had to have the same conversation again, because - after an initial phase of him being remorseful, threatening suicide and life not being worth living etc., he has moved onto be so completely immersed in denial that he just won't accept it's over (predictable really but I wasn't expecting it!) So we went through it all again and I reiterated that there is no going back and nothing to save in terms of 'us'.
Despite it being spelled out to him he's saying he can't let me go etc and just going on as normal (just without physical contact and not doing things together).

I want him to move out. Our home, mortgage etc is all in my name, I pay most of the bills anyway and am primary carer for our DS, and so for me and DS to be the ones to move out would be a lot more difficult, expensive, and not to mention completely unsettling for DS (unjust also!) I can buy him out.
He earns a lot more than me so could afford to set himself up easily (for now, until he eventually allows his drinking to take his job as well. I don't want this to be my problem).

The problem is, how do I ask him to move out?! I already know the obvious answer is to tell him to move out!! But I'm finding this as big a hurdle as the first time I told him we were over and I think I just need to hear it from outside my own head to help me actually action it.
With co-dependency it's very difficult to stop doing the things I've always done, protecting everyone from his mess, providing way more than I should etc. I'm very accustomed to burying myself and just having to react to him. Although I've managed to detach emotionally, I'm still being a doormat. I'm also scared of him to a point, at some point he will get angry and he's the master of deflecting all blame and issues onto others.

Every day that passes is another day wasted that I am not yet on my path to recovery from this toxic relationship.

I need to grow a backbone and get on with telling him to go (and then crack on with divorce proceedings if he refuses?) Any practical advice on how I actually do this would be gratefully received!

I really feel for you Tiddleypops, it’s such a crap situation to be in. Another one here who knows exactly what it’s like.

I issued divorce proceedings last week. I had reached the end of my tether. I would urge you to do the same. The papers have not been served on him by the Court yet and until that happens he still seems to think this isn’t real. It’s beyond frustrating.

We jointly own our house and he has just as much legal right to stay as I do, until the Court orders him out as part of the divorce proceedings. There is no calling the police option available in the absence of violence. You can’t just kick someone out if they refuse to go. I have spent years trying to find an option and there isn’t one. I can’t even change the locks. I’m stuck with him, potentially for months.

I just keep telling myself that the road to peace may be long, but I’m on it now and each day gets me one step closer to the end.

So sorry to hear you are going through this. I can't be of great help when it comes to legal/practical things but just wanted to flag up this charity that might be of great help when it comes to the emotional side and making sure you feel empowered and supported to deal with him and the situation. They are called Drugfam, it's just a small charity in Buckinghamshire but they have a national helpline and it's completely free to use. They can be a great resource as they have dealt with so many cases over the years. I have had experience using them and can't thank them enough for their support and guidance, even if you just want someone to talk to. They will also be able to help you understand his behaviour and how to deal with it.

You are having a tough time.

I also agree that you should avoid entering into proper discussion with him. It doesn't matter what his reasons are now, and anyway you've made your decision having heard them already. And even if you hadn't, you've made up your mind.

You just need to tell him that it's over and that it's not up for further negotiation. If it were me, I would see a solicitor earlier and arrange for the divorce papers to be prepared for issue the next day.

Just get on and file for divorce for his alcohol dependence and seeking inappropriate relationships and a few more things that tick unreasonable behaviour

Thanks all, very useful advice and fairly conclusive that I should just get on with divorce. I'm not sure that is going to go down well! However you're all right, what's the alternative? There isn't one!
Also useful to hear from people who have been in a similar situation, and know that there can be an end to all this, if I can just get over these hurdles I'm creating for myself!

Also some good resources, thank you.
@Oreotastic good luck You are a step closer to that peaceful place.

I'm going to tell him we can talk as we've agreed, but it will be about how we separate not about how we rescue our relationship. If he refuses to acknowledge this at all (as I expect he will), I'll try not to engage and then get myself to the solicitors while he's away.

Once you initiate divorce then if his behaviour deteriorates I think you can start Part IV proceedings under the Family Law Act 1996 (non-molestation order). Not my area at all but this is what a friend did when she and her DH split up.

And keep asking him to move out. No harm in asking if he has the means to go.

Good point @Maelstrop. He definitely has the means to pay for himself to live elsewhere (until such time as his drinking deteriorates further and he loses his job of course I'm sure it will happen eventually).

OP you've just made a very good point for yourself. You definitely want him elsewhere before he gets to that stage or you will be his carer for the rest of his life.

Would it help for him not to blamed. Ie we're not good for each other, we're upsetting dc.
Not that that's correct but might help shift his arse.

I wouldn't be having any 'talk' with him. What's the point? He's not going to listen to you and you aren't interested in anything he has to say. Why subject yourself to his abuse and emotional manipulations?

It's time for action. See that solicitor and start the paperwork. It's the only thing that's going to convince him that you mean business.

Sorry you are going through all of this.
You don't need to answer this, but I'd be interested in how much he drinks?

Hi, OP, I am in the same boat as you. DH is an high functioning alcoholic in denial. He does not admit he is an alcoholic but admitted spending about £300 a month for alcohol. I had enough and thinking about divorce. However, he says that I have no proof (he drinks in the evenings and goes straight to bed to sleep it off). So nobody really knows about this. So he says in the case of divorce he will ask 50:50 for DS, which will be devastating as it will not be a safe environment for a child. I cannot go out at all with his drinking, he is not violent but sleeps so deeply he will not hear fire alarm and he can be completely disoriented e.g. somerimes not understanding is it morning or evening.
I just don't know what to do...

Zhabar how does he pay for his alcohol. Could you keep receipts, take photos of the leftovers each night etc?

Zhabr

Do not just think about divorce, actively start divorce proceedings and seek your own legal advice asap. His comment re needing proof is a nonsense, you are unhappy with his drinking behaviours and that is more than enough.

Such men also quote nonsense re custody; he is saying that to keep you in line and its an empty threat. All this man cares about is drink and where the next drink is going to come from. You and your son do not figure anywhere on your priority list. You and your son should be the priority now and your son does not need to keep on growing up with an alcoholic father in his midst. It will harm him in all sorts of ways just as you have and are being.

Your own recovery from his alcoholism will only start properly when you yourself get off the merry go round. It will not happen until then.

Tiddeypops

Please for your sake as well as your son's continue to crack on with the divorce proceedings from your alcoholic H. He does not warrant an alcoholic parent in his life. Get more legal advice re your situation for your own self asap because knowledge too is power.

Did you contact CODA re your codependency issues?. Your codependency is holding you back here. Have you read the publications on this subject by Melodie Beattie?.

I would hope for the best and prepare for the worst in your case because I cannot see your H being at all amicable here and will make the whole process of you separating from him as long and protracted as possible. You really do need to get off the merry go around, as I wrote earlier your own recovery from this will only start when you have him gone from your day to day life.

Fuzzy

he pays by card I guess, I have seen no receits. All banking are online so I cannot see it.
of course, I have found numerous empty bottles, photograped some, but he says he will say I have staged it.

Attila,

i know I should just do just that, but DS is blissfully unaware as far as I can tell. I am very protective of him. For example, he asked recently if daddy can play chess with him, it was 7pm, H was already asleep. I said that daddy is unwell. I am terrified to put DS in danger. I have a friend who went through a very bitter divorce (different reason), she says the proof is needed as it is my word against his.

Divorce is not a court of law, you do not need to provide proof and its not a case either of your word against his. What "proof" do you need to submit, your friend is wrong here and is not helping you any either. I would suggest you seek your own legal advice asap and find out properly for your own self the ways forward.

You cannot protect your son fully from the realities of his dad's alcoholism and you do need to remove yourself and your son from this situation. You cannot keep on lying to your son because such will not help him or you; he needs a parent he can fully trust. That is you here. He is not perhaps as unaware as you seem to think he is. Children are perceptive and they pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you and his dad. As they get older they certainly become more aware of what is happening around them.

You have a choice re this man, your son does not. Enabling your H as you are doing will only give you a false sense of control too.

Tiddeypops, I feel for you! I was I a very similar situation, my ex took no notice of my desire to separate and kept telling me he was happy with the status quo. In the end I had my solicitor send him a letter saying I was petitioning for divorce. This is what made it real for him and he had to take me seriously, though almost two and half years later we’re still not divorced as he has delayed every step of the way.

Once he realised I meant it he rented a flat for himself but still refused to move out. I booked a removal van and told him what day they were coming and that he needed to be packed and ready to go.

In my view the refusal to believe and move on is about control, my ex had no interest in me or my life but he liked having his house cleaned and his meals cooked for him and seeing me downtrodden and subservient somehow made him feel better about himself, there was no love from his side at all.

See a solicitor and get the ball rolling, you won’t regret it.

Attila
yes, I am going to seek legal advice, of course and fully understand that I am enabling H's drinking. DS may sense something but not effected so far as the drinking make H unavailable in the evening, but normally they have a quality time in the morning, like tennis, cricket or cycling. I am afraid that the effect of divorce on DS will be much greater.
DH is a high earner and well respected at work.
as for my friend, she is a victim of the home violence and her ExH managed to avoid any consequence for his action (said it was self defence), and got 50:50 for custody. My friend now lives in constant
worry.
OP, sorry for hijacking...

fuzzyfozzy, with regard to him being 'blamed', yes I think you are right in a way that I should follow advice to keep things general rather than listing reasons or even entering into discussion. I am going to get some lines rehearsed in my head along the lines of 'our relationship isn't working' and ' I don't want to continue in this relationship' etc. He gets extremely defensive at the slightest thing.

@Zhabr please don't worry about hijacking! It sounds as though we are in a similar situation. For a long time, I saw my H as unavailable in the evening (drinking time starts with a beer with evening meal and carries on until the early hours). I used to make the most of our time during the day - but I realised that actually he's fairly unavailable in the day time too really, he's just not drunk. He's been emotionally unavailable for years - I suspect if you look harder you might find you feel the same.

@MotherisourSlave sounds exactly the same situation. Sorry to hear you went through this, but glad to hear you were strong and dealt with it!

You are enabling both your H and his drinking by at all remaining with him. Your Hs primary relationship is with drink, it is neither with you or your son. He remains unavailable to you because of the alcohol and that is a cruel mistress,

Why are you so afraid of divorce?. Address those reasons proeperly. Your son growing up with an alcoholic father will have far more of a deleterious effect on him than you as his mum divorcing his dad because of his alcoholism. You read up on how children of alcoholics are affected both now and in the future. Read too about adult children of alcoholics.

It matters not that he is both a high earner and respected at work. That may be the case currently but who is to say he won't lose his job due to alcoholism.

You have a choice re this man, your son does not.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Thank you again.

Yes I have read a Melodie Beattie book. it was good, it helped me to see my co-dependency, reach out to friends, disentangle myself a little more from my H so I feel a lot less responsible for him than I ever have - it also left me feeling a bit like everything is my fault. I enabled it. I allowed it. I didn't take care to look after myself etc. So I still carry far more guilt than I should.

CODA do not have any groups local to me, but I am definitely going to Al Anon next week when H is away. Getting to meetings is tricky because they are all in the evening around my son's bedtime and H will hit the roof if I say I am going out somewhere. He'd immediately suspect I am having an affair (I have been accused of this many times) if I make something up about where I am going, and tell me I don't need to go if I am honest about where I am going.

Reading that back I suddenly realise, why does it matter what he things about me going?! I'm going for me, not him (I'm learning!) however that's tricky when leaving my son with him.

With alcoholism as well there are no guarantees. Your current H could go onto lose everything and everyone around him and he could still choose to drink afterwards.

You cannot help your H but you certainly can and should help you and your child. And you as well as Tiddleypops really do need to get off that merry go around.