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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Went home with a drunk date

99 replies

mooneus · 14/04/2018 03:49

So I have been on a 2nd date with a guy. We were having a really nice time and he suggested going back to mine and I agreed. In the taxi home I realised how drunk he was and assumed then we would get home and fall asleep. When we got into bed he tried it on with me but my body wouldn't respond, even though I wanted it to. Then he proceeded to get rough and started biting me, which I don't like. I wasn't feeling it, so I let him do what he wanted. He kept asking if I was ok and I just said I was tired. Then after he realised he wasn't going to get anywhere he got mad and called a taxi to go back to his. Is this my fault for leading him on? If he wasn't so drunk I would have slept with him

OP posts:
SkaTastic · 14/04/2018 09:56

I haven't even been 'moredetails' but I work with survivors of rape and sexual assault and I hope that my clients never encounter some of the victim blaming ideas and statements on this thread.

Just as you are assuming that when this person bit and was rough with the OP that this doesn't constitute violence, then I am using my professional experience to suggest that is was violent, aggressive and against the OPs wishes.

Some could assume that I am taking the kinder view in not blaming the OP for what sounds like a horrible incident.

Lovemusic33 · 14/04/2018 09:59

Im sorry but you invited a drunk man back to yours after a 2nd date, you let him touch you without saying anything, at one point he asked if you were ok? You could have told him you were not comfortable and told him to get off?

I’m sorry but thoughs who are saying ‘it’s not your fault’ are wrong, you gave him all the wrong singnals, at no point did you say ‘no, get off me’, you put yourself in a dangerous situation inviting a stranger back to your house who you knew had been drinking? How was this his fault?
When he realised you were not up for it he did leave?

Put it down to a bad expereance, learn from it, don’t invite drunk men back to yours and don’t contact him again.

moreDetails · 14/04/2018 10:06

No victim blaming because there's no victim. No blaming the OP because she did nothing wrong but he didn't either besides being 'mad' as he left and as I said, I think the lack of details suggest that mad means a little pissed off as opposed to worse.

"I am using my experience to suggest that is was violent, aggressive and against the OPs wishes."

Yes. Contrary to to OP and the facts, you're telling her that she's wrong. That she was assaulted. That him repeatedly getting consent doesn't count as consent...

I think your job has seriously clouded your judgement. Listen to the OP instead of telling her what happened.

I really don't understand how you can interpret 'he kept getting consent and left when I said no' so differently to everyone else.

velourvoyageur · 14/04/2018 10:06

Absolutely not your fault OP. Being invited back to someone's house after a date is not a definite 'yes' for sex and even if it was originally a possibility, you can change your mind at any point.

He shouldn't be dating if he as an adult cannot manage his own disappointment. Toddlers throw strops when they're disappointed by someone because they aren't yet able to counterbalance the emotional pull of imminent wish gratification with the consideration that this is an intersubjective operation. The latter just isn't there yet, and that's normal for non-adults. But well-developed adults push the dogged pursuit of their wants to the backs of their minds and prioritise empathetic response automatically when they see that the person they're dealing with has different wants. Wants & empathy should already be balanced, the former shouldn't be given free reign to wholly drive action. Single-mindedness in this context is hugely immature (and for what? let's face it, it's not a drama is it, being denied sex with a virtual stranger!). Picking up on even the slightest hint that someone doesn't want sex should be enough to radically shift the balance so that the possibility of sex is immediately mentally put on hold/nullified & the not having sex therefore does not ellicit any frustration, and so that wish fulfilment is diverted from 'having sex' to 'making sure this person is comfortable'.

For comparison, I went on a first date a while ago where we wound up at mine. The pub was closing, we were in mid-conversation, I live nearby...I did know that she was up for having sex, but all that happened was that we had drinks, talked sitting on my bed and she left at 2am. I just didn't want it in the end. She did not get angry, she looked a little hurt, we hugged goodbye. Yeah I knew that it must have been confusing for her and felt bad, but ultimately I changed my mind and I'm not going to have sex with someone to save their feelings. I also recently had sex on another first date, we went back to hers, I honestly expected nothing because all she'd mentioned was having another drink.
If he did feel disappointed (but he wouldn't really have had the headspace for that in the moment if he'd been prioritising this empathetic response), he should have hid it, you don't expect others to take the emotional hit. At no point during the evening - the invitation back to yours, the taxi ride, the getting in bed - did you enter into a contract where you owed him sex, OP. In this context, I don't think the phrase 'leading someone on' is even very useful, since no one should ever take an indication that someone might later on be up for sex as written in stone. In most situations involving sex (unless you're deliberately being devious) I think it's a pointless use of the term as it's one used specifically to suggest that someone who doesn't follow through on signals they emit has broken a series of concrete promises, whereas re: sex, the slate of expectation should be wiped clean with every second that goes by - what might have been valid 10 mins ago can't be expected to be valid now. You can't hold people accountable to past expression of intention here. I also think to a large degree we can ourselves work to prevent the hurt that goes with 'feeling led on' by adjusting how we read signs and not assuming that XYZ behaviour from our date means that we're definitely in there.

Hope you're ok and sorry it didn't end up being a good night. If you feel up to it, you could (very succinctly) let him know that his behaviour was not on so that he has that in mind for the next person he dates.

saiya06 · 14/04/2018 10:08

Someone once said: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? I'm not going home with some random guy on date 2 when I don't want to sleep with him because it's too risky for me. Yes, I could go and he could rape me and technically I'd still be in the right. But I wouldn't be happy about it.

It's not about not being "easy" (is this the 1950s?). It's about taking risk seriously. I would try to not put myself in situations where there's going to be lots of crossed wires and expectations.

TheStoic · 14/04/2018 11:44

Absolutely DO NOT see him again. He’s shown you how he deals with ‘disappointment’. If he wasn’t quite as drunk as he was, you could very easily have woken up a rape victim this morning.

He is not one of the good ones.

HollowTalk · 14/04/2018 11:49

She was bitten and handled roughly but she didnt say "i dont like this, please dont do that"

I don't even know where to begin with this.

BitOutOfPractice · 14/04/2018 12:12

He kept asking if I was ok

Because he knew full well she wasn't ok

moreDetails · 14/04/2018 12:19

"If he wasn’t quite as drunk as he was, you could very easily have woken up a rape victim this morning."

How is this thread still running?

How do some of you function in society?

Maybe the OP would have raped him (in all but legal definition) if she'd been more sober.

LoniceraJaponica · 14/04/2018 12:20

I agree with Iwasjustabouttosaythat and TalkFastThinkSlow

He behaved appallingly, but you were clearly sending him the wrong kind of message.

“Just because they got in to bed together it doesn’t mean that sex is guaranteed”

I think you can safely assume that most men would expect this to be the case. They aren’t mind readers

Bluntness100 has put it very well

“Horrible, nasty, victim blaming posts going on in here.”

I don’t agree. I think the OP could have done more to prevent this from happening. Do you cross a main road without checking for cars first? Or do you just step out and assume that they will stop for you?

TheStoic · 14/04/2018 12:22

Maybe the OP would have raped him (in all but legal definition) if she'd been more sober.

Based on statistics? I kind of think my scenario is slightly more likely.

Bluntness100 · 14/04/2018 12:24

Good lord. Some of the hysterical reactions on here. As a pp said there is no victim blaming because there is no victim. She'd have to go into more detail to determine an assault. She did not say he hurt her in any way, in fact she says she was willing her body to respond as she wished to have sex with him.

The issue is not about fault. It's not about victims, it's about personal safety and not inviting a near stranger who's drunk into your home and bed when you would rather not, attempting to get intimate with them and never once articulating no, no matter how many times you're asked.

Some people need to calm down. Neither party covered themselves in glory here and both should have handled the situation differently. He shouldn't have got so very drunk and she should have been able to say "look not tonight, just get thr taxi to take you home after it's dropped me off".

TheStoic · 14/04/2018 12:27

You haven’t been back, OP, so I hope you’re ok.

Are you planning on seeing him again?

moreDetails · 14/04/2018 12:29

"I kind of think my scenario is slightly more likely."

Ah, trial by statistics. The incredibly stupid 'I believe you' school of thinking.

Brings me to my earlier point.

'Don't twist a scenario to fit your narrative'

She wished her body had responded. She kept giving consent when he checked she was ok. He left when she didn't. How in the name of fuck is she lucky? What makes you think he would have raped her if he'd been more sober?

TheStoic · 14/04/2018 12:31

You haven’t been back, OP, so I hope you’re ok.

Are you planning on seeing him again?

NotTheFordType · 14/04/2018 12:47

People really need to just stop responding to the rapeologists. Just let them eat silence.

Hope you're okay OP. It sounds like you didn't feel able to articulate your wishes. I would strongly recommend this book:
Assertiveness and You by Anne Dickson

mooneus · 14/04/2018 14:28

Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback & thoughts. I probably do need to learn to be more assertive! I am doing fine now. I actually had a text from the man in question apologising for last night, saying he knows he can be too much. I haven't replied because I am not sure if I should and I don't know what to say

OP posts:
moreDetails · 14/04/2018 14:34

"rapeologists"

She was raped now NotTheFordType

---------

mooneus

I'm glad you're back and doing ok.

I think you should reply. I think you should tell him that his being 'mad' was completely uncalled for and out of order. Only you know if you want to see him again but as you've invested so little (2nd date), my gut feeling is to move on. Plenty more fish in the sea.

mm2one · 14/04/2018 14:36

Hi OP. You are entitled to your own dignity and own body and you have every right to do what ever you want with it. So if you decide to change your mind half way through a date and decide to not have sex. You are fully well in your rights.

It's a hard judgement to made for the man in question because he was drunk . He would not have been picking up subtle cues or body language that you are changing your mind about sex and the date isn't going as well for you anymore.

If you like him, give him another chance. Maybe establish ground rules and be honest. Tell him that him getting drunk did not do it for you.

Just be careful. Don't put yourself into a situation where he could force you to do something you don't want to do.

Chippyway · 14/04/2018 14:57

I should’ve known NotTheFordType would be calling this man a rapist 🙄

Anyway.

Anyone with half a brain knows that inviting someone back to your house at that time after drinks and getting naked in bed usually = sex. You don’t invite someone back to yours like that for a cooking lesson, do you?!

He didn’t rape the OP. He didn’t assault her. She never once said no. She even admitted she wanted to!

after going on a date and going back to someone’s house/bed, to start the motions etc - I understand why he would’ve got frustrated. You gave every sign that you were gunna have sex with him, when you eventually said no he got off. His time was wasted. He wanted sex, you were also happy to take him home for sex, it never happened so to him you’ve wasted his time.

So yes I would say you lead him on.

Next time, don’t invite somebody back to yours after two dates if you don’t want sex. It’s the classic hint that sex will happen

mummwest · 14/04/2018 15:46

Chippyway, women (and men!) sometimes change their mind about wanting to have sex for various reasons, even if a night might look like it was headed that way.
If someone does want to have sex and plans on having it and then they end up turned off for various reasons when it came down to it should they just go along with it anyway even if they don't want to?

PrettyLittIeThing · 14/04/2018 16:09

I do think you lead him on tbh.

NotTheFordType · 14/04/2018 17:15

@ChippyWay "I should’ve known NotTheFordType would be calling this man a rapist 🙄"

Perhaps you can quote the bit of my post that did that?

OP I'm glad you're okay. Leaving aside everything else, I would not see this man again purely because you are not sexually compatible. He presumably likes it hard and rough and bitey. You don't. That's absolutely fine on both parts, but it's better for both of you to find a partner who more closely matches your preferences.

opionated · 14/04/2018 17:23

When we got into bed he tried it on with me but my body wouldn't respond, even though I wanted it to.
A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally touches another person (B),
(b)the touching is sexual,
(c)B does not consent to the touching, and
(d)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
Sexual Offences Act 2003 drunk people can not consent you committed sexual assault

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