Trying to unpick feelings towards new husbands very close family

[freshstart24]

Will try to keep it brief: Met DH 6 years ago, married last year. He is a wonderful man and I feel very lucky to have him in my life. I have one DS (10) from a previous really tricky relationship which ended 8 years ago.

My family are complicated, I love them dearly but by anyone's standards they are quite tricky people and both parents are on third marriages.

In contrast DH's family are v close. He has 2 siblings- one with two older teenage kids, and one brother with special needs who lives at home with their parents, but is capable of quite a bit of independence ( holds down manual job, can manage himself for a night and couple of days).

They have always spent a lot of time together. Sunday lunch most weeks, two or three ( ie all) holidays together. Lots of social events. Since we met the Sunday lunches are probably more like every other week, and holidays are two out of three together.

I like his family, but also find them difficult at times. They are louder, more opinionated and less considerate than me and I find myself shrinking in their presence. DH loves them dearly, his family values are something I love about him but I'm finding them increasingly overbearing.

We had considered holidaying just the three of us this year but it now looks like again we are all going camping in France. We were thinking of trying to save some money but this now looks less important and so we can do the usual family trip.

DH supports DS and I so much, deals positively and patiently with all the challenges of a full on 10 year old, and so I feel that I should compromise and go on this holiday without complaint. But a big part of me just wants to cry when I think about it.

I feel fed up of having to fit around all their family traditions. I feel DS and I get sidelined. 10 year old boys need different things to teens and old people, and this gets ignored. The teens ignore him completely, which I guess is normal- and I get veiled criticism for disappearing off with DS to relieve our cabin fever as if I'm spoiling him. I know it's important that DS doesn't feel the world revolves around him, but I feel they go too far and he is a bit ignored.

I'm a helpless people pleaser, so naturally prefer to go with the flow. But then DS ends up having to fit in too and we miss out on having fun together.

I feel so guilty and ungrateful about this as for the first couple of years I was just delighted to get a holiday and to be part of a family. Now I've changed my tune and maybe that is unreasonable.

I'm rambling, I know I need to talk to DH but I don't know where to start. He loves his family dearly, and worries about the day he looses a parent- at the end of each holiday he feels tearful that it may be their last altogether. I'm usually relieved that it's over!

Don't worry, therapy will give you the miracle you need: things you never thought you could do will become easy to do. It takes a while but you'll get there..

Meanwhile don't feel bad you can't do it yet. Don't beat yourself up about that. There is a reason you are terrified to stand up for yourself and it is a very real and very deep fear. Don't feel ashamed. The time will come when the fear will fall away.

Keep going

I think it is a good thing to raise with your counsellor.

You and DH are married. People who are married have disagreements and sometimes upset each other. They solve them and come out stronger. - how can you do this in your marriage as 6 years in it isn't happening?

Wanting to go on holiday together just the 3 of you, save money for things you prioritize together that don't involve MIL are not unrealistic asks.

Delphinium that sounds very doable. And a good start.

Thank you.

Everyone else thinks teenager is being normal. Not sure I can convince them he might be able to be nicer to DS. He has self major esteem issues, so criticism is not taken well....

I'd love DS to bring a friend. But keeping said friend happy terrifies me- not all kids enjoy camping etc etc. I'm also not sure many friends parents would allow their 10yo to go away for 2 weeks without them (its a bit too far to go for a shorter time).

Great ideas though and I'm going to start making notes!

Oh Jesus OP, I didn't intend to make you cry - I feel awful, I'm so sorry.

I do think (as you're realising) that there are some reasons why you feel that you should just be happy you have a DH who loves you - maybe that's to do with that previous relationship which sounded quite difficult? You must be so pleased that you found DH and he's not like the other fella (thank God!) - but that also doesn't mean that all your wishes and feelings should be subsumed by his preferences. You really do matter OP. Your wishes and feelings do matter. Definitely. And I think that's what's at the root of it, what's left over from that other relationship. And yes I think counselling just for your own insight would be really useful.

But to the matter in hand, you know your DH and you know the issues you want to resolve. Don't laugh but would making a list to talk through help crystalise the issues and help you have that conversation??

Pandering to selfish people like your MIL will only make you miserable. A decent mother would want her family to be happy and would not become miserable/unbearable if they choose to do something without her.

Springy oooh you sound so sure I can sort this. Thank you! Feeling hopeful.

OP, my in laws are very like this... family holidays, traditions, crying in case it's the last time, "outsiders" (eg me and the other spouses, and even children) being excluded... eg Christmas is all about DH and siblings doing what they've always done. The fact that this is a bit rubbish for our 3 year old wouldn't occur to them.

It's suffocating. When DH and I got married, he was going to his parents' house 4 times a week. I was like you in that it didn't seem suffocating at first, and I also assumed that when we got married it would change.

I realised that a big part of it in my ILs case is that they think it's wonderful to be "close", but actually they don't get on that well. PILs are quite controlling too, and have basically encouraged them to see "family" as the be all and end all - they have never been encouraged to have friends.

Look up "enmeshment" and "narcissistic parents" and see if it rings any bells.

Doinit pleas don't apologise. You've really really helped me. I don't trust myself sometimes. Sometimes I worry that I need not to over-prioritise DS, then I remember that's its ok to make him my priority. I do t want to spoil him, but he matters more than anything else.

Your post just reminded me of that- and that it's ok. X

Ask him to split the holiday time. One year his choice, one year yours. There has to be a middle ground here.

And yes, a list would be helpful. I get tangled in my fears and emotions and it all gets confusing!

I have to sort this. I don't want DS to be like me!

freshstart you are catastrophizing again about the friend [hug]

Lots of parents would be delighted to be shot of a 10 yr old on a subsidized holiday solving a childcare issue in the summer holidays in the care of 2 appropriate adults.

And you are right about DS - if DH's family wasn't there, you would be pretty much planning your family holiday based on what DS would like and not considering that spoiling him at all. See loads of Mumsnet holiday planning threads - all based around 'what do kids age x like'.

Instead of thinking how grateful/lucky you are that DH loves your son you should spin it round and think how damn lucky your DH is to have your son in his life.
I agree with the earlier poster who said you need to stop pleasing and start doing some of the things you know your son would like to do.

What memories do you want your son to have when he looks back on his childhood? Is it happy family holidays, fun times and a mum who has his back? If so you have to start moving the goalposts, you can do this slowly.

Your post explains how you feel quite eloquently perhaps that could be the start of the discussion with your DH.

DS's enjoyment of a family holiday should be considered more important than either you or DH. DS is at an age where he will remember being stuck with cousins who ignore him and parents who seem to care more about grandparents than him.

Tell DH that you like his family but don't want to spend every single holiday with them. If DH is as nice as you say, he will understand that he has to compromise. Keep going with your counselling and learn how to say no to things you don't want to do.

I think you ALREADY sound so so much more positive OP! It's like your mind and attitude has already started turning round and becoming a lot lot more positive and hopeful!

I think what another PP said is important - the fear of the whole relationship breaking down if you say that you need a different approach. Highly unlikely. And you could say that at the beginning I suppose - so he understands how difficult it is for you to even mention it, but that, at the same time, you are very very serious about there needing to be changes. And that the changes you want are NOT unreasonable.

They would only be unreasonable if you were asking him to never go on holiday with his family but always you and your DS - but you're not. And you're not saying you'll never go with them all - because you will. And you're not saying he can't go with them whilst you do something with DS - because he can. Be assured of very reasonable your wishes are - they're not out there, they're completely fair and sensible.

There's nothing wrong with you OP! You're a product of what you've experienced, in relationships, like we all are. We survive them sometimes and it leaves behaviours and thinking that isn't always the best and can take some time to figure out that something needs adjusting. But at the same time it will be so fabulous for DS to see that you really do 'see' him, and you will do things with him that are designed for him and that when it's appropriate, he comes absolutely first. Do something like a PGL holiday with him - he'd love it. And, if you did a say 2-4 days break somewhere like that, it's all incredibly safe, not too long to be away and he could probably bring a friend (but would need advance time for planning and payments from t'other parent) - but it's not undoable. It's just lots more unlikely in the long camping holiday scenario that you've described.

I think that talking about this in counselling is a good plan. You are absolutely being perfectly reasonable in everything you have said. The holiday you describe gives me a cold sweat thinking about it - the length of it, the cabin fever, the food sorting etc.

The teens really should be nice to your DS and include him in things. I don't think it's typical teen to ignore him at all. My cousin's kids who are 16 and 15 are lovely with my DS and their 10 year old brother (and they're fairly typical teens who are pretty into gadgets and quite mumbling with adults!).

I have one DS too (although younger than yours) and would absolutely centre his wants and needs (along with mine and BF's) in any holiday I go on with him. I don't think that is in any way PFB. It's just about spending time doing things you both enjoy. 2 weeks sitting outside a caravan "relaxing" sounds a lot to expect of a 10 year old boy to be honest! What does your DH enjoy doing with your DS? Does he not want to do those things on holiday?

I'd try and be really honest with your DH. I'd also start by telling him what you said about fear of rejection and being a people pleaser so tell him it's really hard for you to go against the flow and that the conversation is hard for you. You can also mention the things you said here - that you love that he's close to his family and the chance to be a part of that. Then say that you get so little time together that you would really like to spend a holiday just the 3 of you even if just a long weekend initially? Or could you spend a few days driving down and driving back and stop off to visit a few places on the way.

I'm quite similar in being a people pleaser and I found this book helpful:
www.amazon.co.uk/When-Say-Feel-Guilty-Systematic-ebook/dp/B004IK8Q22?tag=mumsnetforum-21

fresh mine isn't perfect, by any means! He is also my PF (and only) B. If someone brought a younger child (or a child of the same age) to stay with you, I bet he'd involve them. Whilst teens can be self-absorbed this kindness doesn't necessarily disappear when they hit 13.

My counsellor gave me a nice phrase to use when I wanted to say something challenging which usually wasn't challenging at all

It was something along the lines of 'You know I really love you and you know I love us being together and doing things together. Sometimes I feel that we could..... ' followed by lots of mention of team.

This did feel like overkill when I used it about how DH filled the dishwasher but prior to that I hadn't mentioned anything at all about how annoying he was. I think I genuinely thought he might leave because 'we'd had a row'.

He thought I was bonkers but the phrase did at least get me talking.

What do you mean you feel beholden to DH because you love DS? I don't quite understand but it sounds pretty important.

The whole 'you have to do this holiday as it could be our last before one parent dies!' Is incredibly clever and manipulative tbh, whether it's intended that way or not. It basically ensures that parents get their own way and you have to keep this up literally until both of them are dead. Who knows how long that will be!?

It's baffles me, that attitude. Any day this coming week could be the last day for any of us. When my mum died and I grieved I certainly wasn't kicking myself for not squeezing in one more holiday with her. How bizarre.

I feel very sorry for your DS tbh. The holidays you describe sound great for pensioners but horrendously boring for an active 10 year old. There won't be many more years where he's happy to do activities with his DM.

Id focus solely on making sure DS has a good time. MIL doesnt need to do these activities nor indeed does your DH. Soon your DS will be old enough to bring a pal - and if you continue going on these holidays I suggest you invest in a bigger tent- so until then if you insist on dragging him to a 2 week holiday with the ILs - and ultimately its your choice, he has no choice being a child,then at least make sure the two of you do fun stuff together.

Thanks iBiscuit and op! StepMIL also once made a passing reference to how I was too young to have any real experience of death. I mentioned that my younger brother dying (I was 6) had been a bit of a shock and DH said the look on her face was priceless as she'd clearly completely forgotten. She's not really manipulative - ironically I quite like her as she's very straightforward and simple - but often highly thoughtless and incredibly needy.

op, I suspect that your DH's family is all a bit enmeshed and that he will struggle to break away from the pack on this. If I were you I'd try to take a friend along for DS to play with and join in family activities sitting around at other times. If you do it for long enough then it will become the new normal, trust me. Also: I wouldn't necessarily invite your DH along on these trips out. Have a fab time with just your DS and make it clear that you didn't miss DH at all, and odds are he'll want to come with you because of FOMO. People are funny like that.

OP, I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. And if your DH is really as lovely as you think, if you just talk to him about this, he should get it.

Firstly, two weeks is a freaking hell of a long time to go camping with a group of other people. And sleeping in a tent for a fortnight? I wouldn't fancy it myself.

I think it would be entirely reasonable, even without mentioning all the family dynamics and your concerns about DS, to simply say two weeks is too long.

To explain to him that it's not really your idea of fun, that you've done it for a few years on the trot now and this time you'd rather do something else with your two weeks holiday is not unreasonable.

You could suggest just doing one week or a few days and that he is more than welcome to do the full holiday with his family himself if he likes.

He really should not be offended by that and he should also be the one to explain it to his family in a way that is not going to leave them thinking badly of you. And if it does, he should tell them to 'fuck off'.

You're taking on too much here and perhaps overthinking it. You married him, not his family, you are not obligated to fall in line and neither is your son. It doesn't really matter if you don't all have the same views on parenting and like to holiday in the same way. You shouldn't be so grateful to him that you ignore your own and your sons feelings. You and your DS were a unit before these people got involved just as they were. They're not trying to fall in line with you are they?

Thank you all for the reassurance. I thought maybe I'd be told that I shouldn't be focusing so much on DS.

I do lots of good stuff with DS. I'm conscious that time is running out for him to want to spend time with his mum and I do want to make the most of it before he (quite rightly) pulls away a little. We kayak together at home, climb, walk the dog and I'm a scout leader so we get up to all sorts of interesting stuff in that context.

It's just the holidays where I struggle to balance things properly, and where I feel guilty that DS isn't having a good time, or feeling part of what is happening.

This thread has helped me see that I need get brave and to take action.

I need to somehow find the guts to tell DH how I feel and look to reach a compromise.

I need to plan stuff for DS and I to do on these holidays and ignore the raised eyebrows or guilt trips that we are doing something that everyone can't partake in. I become very insular in these trips, and it's then hard to find my mojo and crack on with having fun- I need to work in this. Hell, I don't even have to be back for family bbq time- it's not the end of the world!

I need to work on whatever it is that makes me catastrophise a scenario where DS brings a friend and they hate it, hate me and hate him.

I need to try to help DH with his fears about each holiday being the last with his parents. I have my demons- and DH has been so supportive. This is one of his demons and I think I owe it to him to listen and be kind about it rather than telling him he's being ridiculous (although the point a poster made about any of us being able to drop down dead next week was so true).

Not sure wether to broach this tonight (DS is staying with a friend), or wait until I've discussed with counsellor next week?

Of course you are doing something everyone can't partake in- these are holidays for pensioners, several ages of adults, several ages of teens and a 10 yr old.

The likelihood you will find something everyone will enjoy, truly enjoy not just lie to please MIL is like hens teeth. Probably everyone there has something they would genuinely rather be doing.

Is MIL even ill or is the whole 'possibly last holiday together' just crazy talk.

I agree with some of the other posters. This is not an 'all or nothing' situation. You seem quite prepared to spend some time/holidays with DH family, just not all of them. That's a totally reasonable, considerate to your DH, fair position. He should understand.

I have a very close relationship with my DPs - as does one of my siblings. We often go on holiday together (but never more than once a year) and always spend celebration weekends together (Christmas, Easter, DPs birthdays etc). My other siblings duck in and out as they feel like.

My DH likes and appreciates my parents, but would never agree to spend every holiday with them.

I don't think this needs to be so confrontational- you just say to your DH that you would like to plan in some time off just the three of you. Also, offering to have his DB to stay is really nice.

I also don't think your DH needs therapy. I know a number of families as close as your DHs and, so long as everyone is on the same page, it can be a very positive way to live.

OP, not so long ago someone started a thread about an issue she had with her DH and looking for other people's views. She ended up showing him her thread. He was surprised to read other views on their situation and they agreed how to sort things out. I don't know if you'd want to show your DH this thread or even let him know about MN but it might be a way of raising the topic. On the other hand there might be too much in here for you to show him. Just a thought.