What do you tolerate in friends? Could you tolerate racism?

[charliecat]

I have a friend, she is nice, except shes also racist.
This has only came up a couple of times in the few years ive known her.
I feel I should cut our friendship dead because of this...do you tolerate it or ???

No, don't think I could, tbh. Or anyone who was vehemently sexist or homophobic or prejudiced against any other group.

Agree about degrees of racism though, my MIL used to say her (then) new neighbours were lovely in a 'despite being black' way. Not that she worded it that way or is prejudiced per se, she just hadn't known any black people well before so always mentioned their colour IYKWIM. I let it go.

With your friend, the Polish thing is plain stupid (and there have been Polish communities in this country since WW2) but the interrupting thing - could it be that she doesn't like that particular person rather than out and out racism?

I think you tolerate stuff in friends depending on how strongly you feel about a) the thing you don't like about them and b) the things you do like about them.

And if one outweighs the other massively, that will be the deciding factor in whether you continue to be friends with them or not.

I once knew someone who was a really good friend but it got to the point where her mad views became more of a chore to put up with, than her company was a pleasure. When that balance is wrong (whether it be about racism or any other issue imo) then that's when you know you don't really want this person's friendship any more.

good point Kerrymum but why do I feel (slightly) more nervous about black groups of men than white - I don't have any experience of violence from them (or anyone), don't feel the same about other ethnic groups eg indian men. Feel cross with myself that it must be something I have unconsciously absorbed. It really bugs me.

No I couldn't. My dp is indian and my kids are mixed race. Recently I was introduced to my brothers' gfs' parents at a night out in a pub. The father didn't believe I had four kids, so I showed him pics. He was rather drunk and commented that 'they aren't very white are they?!'. On my dp, he said 'I hope you haven't takent aht one home'. Everyone else seemed to think it was fine, and excused him saying oh, he's all for queen and country, etc. WTF? I told him actually I have two children with dp who was born in this country in any case (which he refused to believe) then told him to F* off. I wish I could have been slightly more articulate but some people there is no getting through to.

pmsl mb - now i wonder how fetching my dogs would look in such an atire . thanks for explanation sue - no software is not up to describing photos, although i'm led to believe that a piece of software is in the making that will be able to - in the not too distant future.

I think the question of how people feel about immigration to this country demonstrates the irrationality of racism. Nobody bats an eyelid at the numbers of white Australians, New Zealanders, Americans, French, German, Finnish, Canadians living and working in the UK. However, immigrants from Eastern Europe, the Caribbean, Africa (unless you are white) and Asia are viewed with hostility and venom. The fact that their cheap labour props up the hospitals, restaurants, keeps public buildings clean etc, is taken for granted and unappreciated.

Many whites from this country immigrate to Spain, Australia etc because they believe that the UK is going down the pan because of the number of immigrants but yet these idiots do not see the irony that they themselves have become immigrants.

I always point this out when someone trots out this garbage about immigration to this country, especially to white people with whom I work who always preface their comment with "not being funny" or "of course I don't mean you".

In fact, the guy opposite was going on about Easten Europeans arriving in his area for work and I told him "yeah, just like my parents who arrived from Jamaica in the 1960s". That stopped him in his tracks.

Oh yes

Boarding houses with the signs

No blacks
No Irish
No dogs

"Many whites from this country immigrate to Spain, Australia etc because they believe that the UK is going down the pan because of the number of immigrants but yet these idiots do not see the irony that they themselves have become immigrants."

that is a dangerous generalisation, speedymama

I know SW but after reading so many articles, listen to so many programmes on radio/TV and listened to many people in RL who speak about the reasons why they would like to leave the UK, you could not blame me for thinking that.

Most probably do not immigrate for those reasons but my perception is that many do.

Being frightened that your "daughters brought home a non-white boyfriend" -sugarybits - is clearly racist.

As wanabee beautiful posts states, saying you have strong feelings, which I do, on immigration, and from no particular country, thinking that England is a soft touch compared to ... say France, I don't think classifies as racist.

I don't tend to have much in common with people that have racist views.

Pedant alert: people emigrate from the UK and 'i*mmigrate to the UK. Given we are in this country.

Oblomov, many people with strong feelings about immigration always cite Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia but never Ausralia, New Zealand, America, Canada etc.

Thanks Edam - I forgot!

I always think it's kind of ironic that in British Empire days we had a policy of exporting our least wanted people to other countries - working class convicts to Australia, and the dodgier and less useful sons of posher families to various outposts to get them out of the way and to somewhere where they were a less visible embarrassment to the family.

And those who leave Britain for other countries generally do so just as much in pursuit of a "better life" of some kind as those who are criticised for coming here.

On my mum's side, my great grandparents/ great great grandparents emigrated from Ireland to New Zealand for that - economic migrants. Then her parents came here to study, and settled - in her 80s after 50 years here, my grandmother was given 6 months leave to remain on returning from a holiday in NZ. (It was sorted out).

I'm white as is my partner, but my relatives have married and lived with/had kids with people from most racial backgrounds - my dad's other kids are half-Chinese, his brother married a Japanese-Canadian woman. I don't think I could have a close friendship with someone who was really racist, though I have had friends who made comments in the past that I found uncomfortable (I'd react differently at 37 to how I did at 15).

Interesting that point about how people differentiate between different types of immigrants.

I think it's because there's a perception that Australians, South Africans etc., don't immigrate en masse, whereas Eastern Europeans, Jamaicans etc., do or did. Also, people think that the other immigrants mentioned will eventually go home after a couple of years. So they are individual immigrants who don't matter, as opposed to being part of a mass who do (because a mass changes the culture, puts pressure on social systems like housing, education etc., whereas a few individuals don't.)

I don't know how accurate that perception is (and wouldn't defend any racism that was a result of it anyway - the way to deal with mass immigration is to ensure that we have social systems that can deal with it, not to get angry with the immigrants who come here), though an Australian friend of mine once told me (about ten years ago) that everywhere he travels, he is welcomed with open arms (the Australians having a very positive image and being very popular around Europe and the rest of the world) except in London, where people would comment that it was impossible to get a bar job in London nowadays unless you're Australian, and wasn't everyone in Sydney English nowadays? Of all the places he'd ever travelled (and he'd been backpacking around Europe, America and Asia for about five years), England was the most hostile to him. Don't know if that's to do with numbers of Australians or just sheer bloody inhospitability.

All immigrants are equal but some are equal than others

some are more equal than others

"She is always making "jokes" about what she would do if one of her daughters brought home a non-white boyfriend."

My dad did that too - and then apparently through a complete hissy fit when he found out the man I was engaged to was infact black (my mum still refuses to this day - 8 1/2yrs later to tell me what his exact words were)!! He still came to the wedding though - and now thinks DH is the best thing since sliced bread.

I actually think the Antipodeans coming here (and my grandparents were) are having a significant effect on housing and job market etc at certain levels. Where I work, a lot are employed as agency workers and locum staff, and the higher paid ones often work as contractors for some years, therefore paying less tax and NI. Although it may be a while yet, for those who don't go home after two or three years, they're likely to need services. They're also often paying off huge student debts - where can UK students go to do that? They're taking pressure off employers to recruit to what should be permanent jobs (and to pay enough to do so). This isn't to say they shouldn't be here. But all sorts of different patterns of settlement impact on employment, public services, housing prices etc - private rented sector in this case.

It would be hard to retain respect for someone who was racist. They would go right down in your esteem. You would have reservations about them. I remember a work colleague who I had known (and respected) for a year made a racist joke (not really too nasty, but demeaning). I couldn't believe my ears. Another colleague verbalised his displeasure and HE went right up in my estimation.

On gangs of youths, Suejonez. I was hit on the head last easter outside Battersea Park by a guy from one of these gangs. When I went to report it to the police, the police woman asked me if he was black. My sister also asked me if he was black. The youths were all white.