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Original poster

What do you tolerate in friends? Could you tolerate racism?

82 replies

charliecat · 02/05/2007 10:48

I have a friend, she is nice, except shes also racist.
This has only came up a couple of times in the few years ive known her.
I feel I should cut our friendship dead because of this...do you tolerate it or ???

OP posts:
ThomCat · 02/05/2007 11:07

Silly comments by people of an older generation are one thing. Like my dad says 'coloured people'. drives me insane and I pull him up every time but he isn't rcist.

But this ex-friend who takes the piss out of people in Indian restaurants and thinks it's funny to make racist jokes, makes my skin crawl. And I had a book club going with his wife and when she started coming out with a couple of things that made me feel uncomfortable that was it, I was off.

Blandmum · 02/05/2007 11:08

The sort of idiot thing my mother used to say. It sounds almost positive, but it is a steriotypical view that is at heart racist.

Eg, West Indians always seem so happy and have such nice teeth. And they are always good a running.

A homophobic version, 'he is a nancy boy but so kind to his mothe and has beuatiful taste'

She wasn't really racist (and in fact had a swastica opainted on her back door by real racist bastards because she welcomed an asian family new to the area), just daft.

MissGolightly · 02/05/2007 11:09

But, just to contradict myself, I do think it is possible for people to make offensive statements without being really racist. My grandmother occasionally says things which make me wince but it's really just ignorance because she has never lived in a multi-race society. I can forgive those because I know it is not malignancy, if she met a pakistani (for eg) she would be truly nice.

Lilymaid · 02/05/2007 11:13

People who are racist can be acquaintances but not real friends. There is an immense amount of racism in the UK and it seems to be increasing at the moment following the terrorist attacks and the arrival of East European workers.

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 02/05/2007 11:15

Actually I don?t think it?s that black and white (excuse pun) as to say if they?re racist then you would have nothing to do with them. Of course if they?re visibly racist, belong to the bnp and make racist comments in front of peope of other races then they are clearly unpleasant people and I would have nothing to do with them. But a lot of ?racism? is born out of ignorance, the same way as many prejudices such as against the disabled/homosexuals are born out of ignorance and often a fear of the unknown. I think there is absolutely no goubt that a lot of people in this country hold very strong views about immigration/asylum seakers for instance, that they feel that there should be limits on the amounts of people who should be allowed to enter the country because Britain is too soft an option and anyone can come here and live off benefits which they, the tax payers, are funding. Is it racist? Yes perhaps, but there?s a difference in saying ?I don?t think that we should allow so many immigrants to come here? and ?I wish all the p*s would fck off back to where they came from?.

I genuinely believe that there is a difference between people who are openly biggetted and those that make comments that, while coming across as offensive are generally ignorant.

As a disabled person I have come across both, from the person who told my sister (would never have dared say it to my face) that David blunkett should never have been allowed to become a cabinet minister because he has a disability, to the woman in m&s who asked me if the dog helps with the cooking. Vast difference between the two IMO.

Also, I think that most people in the world have prejudices. Be it against another race/sex/disability/gays, which are the more serious prejudices, to having issue with people that are of a lower/higher social class for instance.

Blu · 02/05/2007 11:16

Things like not being aware of current language wouldn't trouble me, but jokes, unpleasant insinuations, crass generalisations would all be a no-no.

I think jokes DO matter - whether they are about my child or not. We are all so subtley susceptible to prejudice and stereotype - did anyone see the report in the observer on Sunday about a study which shows that girls with names considered to be more 'feminine are far less likely to do science and maths than girls with less 'feminine' names? It couldn't be explained away by the potential tendency for gender polarisation between different familise because they studied twins. In short, an Isabella is far less likely to be studying maths A level than her twin, Lauren or Ashley. It was thought it was because of teachers subconscious perceptions and subtle dofferences in treatment , and possibly the girls own self image.

If that makes such a s strong difference - how can 'funny' 'lighthearted' jokes, which deal in stereotypes?

But i agree that a constructive challenge may be a better and more productive tactic than storming off.

Depends on who it is, how likely they are to listen to reason or experience, and how difficult it is to cut them out of your life.

Blu · 02/05/2007 11:18

how can 'funny' jokes which deal in stereotypes not make a difference...

Blu · 02/05/2007 11:19

I am LOL imagining Wannabe's dog with it's paws up against the cooker...

WanderingTrolley · 02/05/2007 11:24

Agree about the degrees of racism.

I know people who think they're not racist, but I think they are, who's right?

I was recently very shocked at a comment from my best friend, which has really made me consider her a little bit dim, and rather narrow minded, and has thus ruled out certain conversations, sadly.

My ex-bf can be horribly racist. This played a part in the break down of our friendship.

Whenever either has made a comment that I consider racist, I've challenged it.

Hilariously, my entire family are immigrants.

snowleopard · 02/05/2007 11:24

I would never tolerate out-and-out racism and would say something about it - but with many people it's more kind of subtle. I have some friends who bang on about immigration and that makes me uncomfortable though I can't pin it down as racist exactly. My mum swears she's not a racist, has Asian friends etc. and yet didn't want Asians to move into her street as it would bring house prices down, and also - bizarrely - because they would in her opinion have lots of people living in one house (how that's worse than one old lady rattling around in a big house I can't fathom...). But if I try to address these comments which i think are racist she just wriggles out if it by saying it's true, it would bring prices down - and maybe it would - but that's only because other people are racist! - etc. It gets me nowhere.

WanderingTrolley · 02/05/2007 11:28

Great post Wannabe.

Please tell me you had a smart reply for the genius in M&S.

"Well, he tries, but he's shit at a souffle and his meringues have gone right downhill since we had Snoopy to lunch, and he complained."

Carmenere · 02/05/2007 11:32

Well they probably wouldn't want to be friends with me because I find it hard to not challenge prejudice when ever I come across it.
Particularly since a I moved to the UK and have experienced it myself (Irish stereotypes ect).

NadineBaggott · 02/05/2007 11:36

yes, I think I could. Surely it's better to stay friends with people who hold questionable views and try and show them the error of their ways rather than cast them aside to continue to wallow in their shallow views on life and perhaps taint someone else.

It's about education and why shouldn't you be the educator?

Blandmum · 02/05/2007 11:38

we shouldn't mock the culinary skills of canines!

{wink]

suejonez · 02/05/2007 12:29

you should explain for wannabe's benefit that that is a photo of a golden retriever with chef's hat and apron with front paws up on cooker top. Not sure her fancy software is up to describing a photo! Or is it, Wannabe?

Blandmum · 02/05/2007 12:31

Sorry, crass of me

I was just taken with the pickture.

Apols to you Wanabe

Dear god, how does your software cope with my typos....or cods!

suejonez · 02/05/2007 12:57

sorry MB wasn;t trying to make you feel bad, and I think the software is pretty good at describing images if the website is built a certain way (which they now should under DDA) but doubt it will describe a photo.

I too would love to know how it deals with Cod's posts in particular, have visions of a computer with smoke pouring out the back as it tries to cope...

KerryMum · 02/05/2007 13:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

suejonez · 02/05/2007 13:05

hmm, more difficult with family. I think you just have to say "your views upet me, if you care for me at all don't express them near me or my children"

OrmIrian · 02/05/2007 13:07

I can tolerate political and religious differences to a certain extent. If I enjoy their company and we steer clear of sticky subjects it's all fine. And I've got many friends who don't have the same interests and attitudes as me - in fact most of them. But racism and homophobia doesn't work for me. I have tried sometimes to continue friendships because we get on well in other ways but somehow it all seems to turn sour and the thing dies naturally - hearing someone express distasteful views is like drinking a glass of orange juice and finding out too late it's vinegar iyswim.

WanderingTrolley · 02/05/2007 13:10

Sue, perhaps it just says COD HAS SPOKEN, PROBABLY SOMETHING ABOUT FREAKS OR SHOES

That's pretty crappy for both of you Kerry, shame that's what he took from that experience.

suejonez · 02/05/2007 13:12

Do you think people beaten up by white people have the same issue about white people? Just musing. I do find gangs of youths a bit scary and I think I am probably more wary of gangs of black youths, but it annoys me that I am - how do I stop that?

suejonez · 02/05/2007 13:13

lol wanderingtrolley, would love it if any messages are translated as Cod really loves crocs and thinks you should all have a pair.

LynetteScavo · 02/05/2007 13:14

I havent' read the whole thread.I do have friends with DH/ DP who are racist and it makes me so uncomfortable. I worked for a racist women once, and had to leave the job as I felt so uncomfortable. Generally, I don't like racist people so tend not to be friends with them.
The ideal answer to your post would be to educate your friend not no be racist, but life's not that easy!

ruddynorah · 02/05/2007 13:16

no i don't tolerate it.

certainly not blatant racism. and as for this 'light hearted stuff' which is perhaps out of ignorance, i point it out when people do it. none of my friend say things like 'coloured people,' i've explained to them why this is inappropriate. and i wouldn't and haven't stayed friends with people who carried on saying it.

with FIL and MIL who often say innapropriate things, dh picks them up on it as and when. their grand daughter is mixed race, they are starting to understand that some of the things they say are about people just like me and her. and they no longer say things like 'oh but we don't mean you.'