How to deal with a friendship outgrown

[Catinthebath]

I’ve outgrown a 40+ year old friendship but my friend hasn’t. The only thing I have is nostalgia. Friend has behaved very badly towards mutual friends and her behaviour has been called out, I’ve avoided calling her out for too long on poor behaviour towards friends in my home. Alcohol is a feature of a lot of this behaviour. I was cowardly and hoped she’d take the hint from my countless excuses not to meet up but she hasn’t and now definitely knows something is wrong. Her behaviour has amplified the fact that I had outgrown the friendship. I’ve confirmed in an email something wrong is and I’ll ring her to explain next week. She has replied saying in the call we can arrange to meet. That is not an option. Am I wrong to not offer to meet? The point I want to make is that I can’t relate to the friendship and so if we meet at group events, fine but I can’t commit to a one on one friendship. There is no easy way to do this.

That’s true another. Examples of overstepping boundaries that would be clear to anyone - trying to snog friends husbands on a dance floor in full view of everyone including her own husband, entering a bathroom and pulling back a shower curtain on a naked young teenage boy, knowing he was showering, attempting to put down a mutual a friend in front of new acquaintances by saying that no matter what she achieves, she’ll always be defined by her “chav” roots. So many other examples that are embarrassing, cheap or nasty. It’s actually very cathartic typing this out. A bitterly jealous woman I think

She sounds really badly behaved but I stand by my view that you should still tell her in person. Ghosting someone is cruel in the extreme.

I will foster. Never intended to ghost her (if I understand the term in the same way you do).

I think instead of a list of reasons, it is best to keep it simple: I no longer feel comfortable around you, as I don't like the person you become when you drink.

She may think you can see sober-her and drunk-her separately, drinkers often think that...

Thanks 10. I think you’re right and I would extend it to the point whisky made to say “I don’t like how you've treated other people as a result”.

You should call her. Don't meet as it's likely to get difficult. However she deserves to know how you feel and why and depending on how she reacts then decide if you want to meet her.
It's so sad to turn your back on such a long friendship, but perhaps after some home truths she will the react more normally to a 'fade'. She will have time to reflect on your comments and will perhaps act more appropriately to an "I'm busy text". At the moment she might have zero idea to be fair. If she likes you a great deal she wants to pin down a date not do a mental tally of how many times you've said no to seeing her.
If you are going to see her socially (however infrequently) don't tell her the friendship is totally over - there is no need to be so cruel - as she's obviously more invested than you are.
Phone her and say what plays on your mind and why it makes you reluctant to see her frequently.
It's much kinder then telling her the friendship is dead forever and ever. Even though it's probably the way it will go.

Thanks Corn, sums up how I feel. The friendship isn’t dead forever but is changed. Making the call tomorrow evening

Please tell her that her behaviour, such as using and freeloading, is the reason for you and others dropping her. If nobody spells it out then she'll never learn.

There's someone like this that I know. I have nothing to do with her but friends of mine still get sucked in. They moan about it but nobody is prepared to actually say anything so she carries on.

OP, I have been in your position. Two years ago I ended a friendship of more than 25 years. I ended it badly and regret it.

I was too cowardly to face her so went into avoidance mode. She did not take the hint and back away but kept calling and texting me.

I never called her back, just sent her an email saying why I didn't want to be friends anymore. I regret not having a proper conversation with her to this day but the damage is done now. She deserved better than that.

Talking to her may feel like the last thing you want to do- that's how I felt- but if I could turn the clock back I would do things very differently.

I hope your chat goes ok. I still haven’t heard from my ‘friend’. It’s been about 2 weeks now that she sent me an abusive message because I’d dared to call her out on bad behaviour the week before. I’ve tried to sort it out. She says she’s not ignoring me, and she will contact me when she decides. Well I think bugger that. I’m sick of being analysed and criticised for daring to have an opinion about her behaviour towards others. Her abusive messages come out of the blue. I’m thinking it’s time to let it go. I have been asked not to contact her so I won’t. I know she’ll be in touch at some point but I’m not prepared to be just left in limbo until she decides she wants to put things right. I have a lot of stress in my life. Friendships should not be stressful. They should be mutually respectful and supportive and for laughs and relaxing, not being on edge and trying to discreetly manage her behaviour to others. So my 30 year friendship is over. Not with massive drama or arguments. It’s sad but a little part of me feels relieved

Amin I agree with all you say about friendships. We have enough obligations in life without a long term but toxic friend being one of them. I’m glad for you that you feel relief. I didn’t ring my friend tonight as I had a family member staying over unexpectedly and we’ve had a lovely night, I wasn’t prepared for the call to intrude on that time

In case anyone sees this, I finally had the discussion, over the phone. My friend took it as well as could be but I think in part because she doesn't really yet believe the terms of our friendship have changed permanently and doesn't seem to acknowledge her behaviour. I found 2 things strange - when I told her of my offence at how she spoke to our mutual friend, she said she didn't remember what she said but she didn't ask me what she'd said. I also asked her 4 times did she have a problem causing this behaviour that she needed to confront and have help with. Each time I asked she fell completely silent and said she was just listening to check her husband wasn't around but didn't answer the question. The silence was stalling, I don't believe there is a problem. I think she knew I was hoping in a way there was a problem as that would be an explanation, rather than having to face the fact she has behaved badly. She also lied about a couple of things, her not knowing I already knew the truth. She has always had a tendency to create her own truth. She said she wanted to meet face to face to talk it through further and I was firm and said I didn't want to, my connection to our friendship has changed and that the people she needed to speak to were those she'd offended. I'm interested to see if those people she (apparently only just realises) she upset are contacted with an apology. She repeatedly referenced the duration of friendship and I feel she thinks that the duration trumps any negativity. I told her that having written 15 years clean out of my history post divorce, I hold less store by the past and prior shared experiences and what matters is now. I ended by reinforcing that I didn't want to go back to us meeting up one to one but if we bump into each other when out and about or in group settings, we'll interact perfectly normally, and on social media. I think she will continue to ask to meet.

Very difficult conversation but relief it's been had. Thanks for all the advice.

Good grief. No wonder she fell silent. fifth amendment I suppose.
Sounds like being interviewed under duress. You sound very judgemental and seem gloating in your moral high ground.
we've all done stupid things.....you included I bet......sounds to me like you are just trying to please your other friends.
Which of course is bullying. Good for you hope you feel better about yourself.

TBH I think you are jealous of her being a bit posher than you.

aftertheevent did you read the full thread?!

No after, she’s jealous that friends who aren’t “posher” than her have much more than her materially. But I realise you’re just probably bored on a Friday afternoon so are being a bit daft

I find some of the replies on this thread really surprising. If a husband/partner behaves badly/behaved like this woman, everyone would be quick to shout LTB, but it doesn't seem the same when it's a female friend. Why is that? Why does knowing someone for a long time mean that you should put up with them behaving badly, or keep seeing someone that you don't like and enjoy their company?

You've totally done the right thing, imo, OP.

OP I think those criticising haven’t read all of your thread. Well done for having the guts to have a really difficult conversation. I’ve still not heard from my ‘best friend’. It’s been a month now. There have actually been very thinly veiled digs at me on social media, bit childish for someone in their mid 40s. I continue to feel relieved that the lack of contact means I don’t constantly feel analysed and on edge

From my side and I’m in the middle of being excluded from a whole group not through any of that kind of behaviour I might add. Rather than my trying to take the hint which to be fair you kind of know but then you think oh am I being paranoid so you don’t you don’t take the hint. I would have much preferred a direct face to face chat an honest one and then while it might hurt it would give the friend the opportunity to answer your concerns but if you are firm that that’s the end of the line she will get closure also. Maybe ending that when you bump into each other at mural events that you hope you both can say hi and be civil.

Sorry just saw you had the conversation already shame it wasn’t face to face but at least you have told her directly.

titan I did it in a call for both our benefit. Selfishly I really did not want the stress of a face to face and for her part, it was easier for her to lie and save face. When she lies or distorts it’s very visually obvious, still obvious on the phone though. 3 days have passed and she’s made no attempt to contact those she offended despite her saying offending them was the last thing she’d have wanted to do, so the door is closing more fully for me now.

I’m sorry for what you’re going through, I’ve been in that position myself.

I can see why PP are saying you owe her one last meeting, but speaking as someone who was in the position of your friend, a phone call is ultimately kinder. I was ghosted by a friend of 20 years + a few years back, which was actually a relief because it was a toxic friendship anyway (she was moody and demanding and often disparaging and didn't like it when I met my DP and he encouraged me to stand up to her). But no way would I have wanted to be sat down in person so she could explain why she thought I was a terrible friend and she didn't want to have anything to do with me anymore! I do think you should talk to her one last time, but spare her the humiliation of doing it publicly.

Whoops, missed the update where the conversation has taken place! I think you did the right thing doing it over the phone and while she might be upset now, she'll thank you for it one day.

I have read all of the thread and I'm sorry but reading between the lines I think you are being unkind. I think the reason for this is that you have a high regard for your own social standing and your other friends (have you known them for the same time?) Don't like this woman. You have chosen them over her.

I don't have many (if any) friends and am generally the outsider in social/work groups. I have recently worked in a very bitchy environment (still do) and have really stepped back from trying to forge friendships. I can see it so clearly - the vying for "top dog" position and weaker people being sucked in by people who manipulate others to their own ends. It's fucking unpleasant.

Friendships do drift. I saw an old friend of many years the other day. Drove past in her car with her dp. Could have stopped to chat but didn't. I wasn't upset by this as our friendship drifted over the years but there was no "breaking up" as such. Our lives went different ways. The same with my oldest friend. I didn't really like the way she treated me. I was ok to watch her kids Etc but never quite good enough for her circle of friends. Perfectly nice people but she seemed to want to keep us separate. It was great to see her and catch up. Was jyst like old times but I have no desire to rekindle things. Again there was no "break up"

Your situation sounds like you have been greatly influenced by other people's opinions on someone who you have known your whole life. I think that's quite sad actually.

Of course you'll say I'm wrong but hey

lem I’ve known the friend 40 years and the other friends 34 years. It’s nothing to do with social standing (though the longer term friend has an issue with it I think) nor influence. My friends own father told me once how he found her hard work. There have been numerous incidents with disparate groups of friends. It’s a pattern no matter who she’s with. Her issue seems to stem from the fact she grew up reasonably privileged and struggles with seeing other friends have career success with material gain where she chose not to push herself. In addition to the “chav” comment she made to a friend, she once referenced a work colleague of mine who started on a YTS scheme and progressed well to the point she earned double what my friend did. My friend knew this and commented “how’s she done so well, she only came from X Council estate?”. She’s been a “me first” person from childhood, history of low level bullying. The truth is Lem, I (and others) are finally sick of her bullshit. For too long in life I’ve been polite, tolerant, putting with up things I don’t like, that goes wider than my friend hence why I finally divorced an EA husband. At 46 I’m taking charge of my own environment and filling it only with what nourishes me. There are enough stresses and pressures that are unavoidable so where I have the choice to avoid negativity, I’ll take it. That’s the truth of this situation. My friend’s behaviour and her upset over the situation is on her.