How to deal with a friendship outgrown

[Catinthebath]

I’ve outgrown a 40+ year old friendship but my friend hasn’t. The only thing I have is nostalgia. Friend has behaved very badly towards mutual friends and her behaviour has been called out, I’ve avoided calling her out for too long on poor behaviour towards friends in my home. Alcohol is a feature of a lot of this behaviour. I was cowardly and hoped she’d take the hint from my countless excuses not to meet up but she hasn’t and now definitely knows something is wrong. Her behaviour has amplified the fact that I had outgrown the friendship. I’ve confirmed in an email something wrong is and I’ll ring her to explain next week. She has replied saying in the call we can arrange to meet. That is not an option. Am I wrong to not offer to meet? The point I want to make is that I can’t relate to the friendship and so if we meet at group events, fine but I can’t commit to a one on one friendship. There is no easy way to do this.

It sounds an odd friendship if you have never met for a coffee etc over 40 years. You don't actually sound that close to her. When I read what she had done- the drinking etc- she comes over as someone in her 20s, not late 40s.

It sounds as if- maybe I'm wrong- as if the friendship revolves around pubs and social stuff, not the stuff that close friends do like eating, shopping, going to places together, doing family stuff if you have children....

Was she ever really a close friend or more a long term friend who you knew at 5 years old?

I ended a close friendship a few years ago. This was someone I was as close to as a sister; we had no secrets and used to speak at least once a week by phone. What happened with us was I said things abut her behaviour she didn't like, she sent me a horrible email in response, saying what she thought of me, and I cut her off. I'd also thought for some years that I was putting in more effort than her. She did try to contact me by text a few times but I felt we'd reached the end of the line. Our lives were very different. I do miss her and regret it to an extent.

I think you have to talk to your friend and give her a chance to say how she feels and understand how her behaviour impacts on others.

I fully acknowledge I’ve been cowardly in dealing with this. I run headlong into professional conflict but absolutely avoid it in personal relationships.

Susan I have been close to her at different times over the 40 years. We have of course met up at each other’s houses for coffee, cooked for each other but if we meet out of the house it’s for dinner/drinks. She has no kids.

If I was anyone else she’d have just written the friendship off by now but she seems to cling to the duration of our friendship as some sort of validation to the wider friendship group . We’ve also known the wider group for 35 years so not much in it! Of the group, she is the only one who came from a fairly well off background. Her comments have revealed a resentment at the material success some of the group have achieved. She never acknowledges the hard work and sacrifice they made though, but she does acknowledge mine. One friend has been described as being “lucky” at being able to invest in property using inheritance from the parents she lost prematurely! Her values aren’t aligned to mine and she somehow clings to the fact we have something special due to knowing each other for a bit longer.

I won’t be unkind to her but I have to back away.

I've changed my mind completely.
What an utter coward you are. Which you admit.
This is disgraceful way to treat someone. You owe her a full explanation. Or else you just leave her hanging and none-the-wiser as to what she did wrong to get into this position, with you.

And the pp Snowydays way, of just sending an email, allowing no comeback, is even worse.

I am shocked at how women treat eachother. Makes me very sad.

Ob I’m going to give her an explanation. My question was whether I can avoid meeting up with her. She suggested we talk about the issues then meet up. It’s the meeting up I want to stop.

This isn’t about how any one sex treats the other. My friend behaved disgracefully towards both men and women at the wedding I mentioned

The kind thing to do IMO, given the length of the friendship, would be to meet up, once.

If you really can’t face that then speak by phone as she’s requested and say you don’t wish to meet up in person.

It sounds like most of your annoyance is about things she’s said about and how she’s treated other people, your mutual friends. Which is fair enough.

I think you owe her the face-to-face really.

I am not sure this is a question of cowardly or not cowardly. You've tried a subtle, gentle way of communicating your need for distance from her, which hasn't worked. So you now have to have The Conversation, which you are preparing to do. I do think this should be a two-way interaction, not a one way communique from you, though. If she has mitigating circumstances, don't you want to hear them?

However, I would question something about boundaries here. It sounds as though your friend has simply not experienced any setting of boundaries from you. I think that can sometimes create enormous problems - not just in terms of licensing bad behaviour, but in terms of the fact that people actually like clear boundaries, and sometimes struggle when they are not in place. Certain kinds of people will actually keep pushing until they find them. In future, maybe bear that in mind as you set up relationships!

That’s right Dozer, I can’t engage in the friendship knowing how she has treated other people. I’ve been avoiding her for a long time and don’t miss the contact at all. If I did I might feel motivated to get her to explore her behaviour. I take your point regarding a face to face meeting.

I am concerned that she might respond very negatively, in view of how she's treated other people in her friendship group. Is she likely to make a scene? She has asked for a telephone call so it would be legitimate to do this over the telephone.

Either way, I would suggest rehearsing what you're going to say to her so you don't end up just leaving it and then continuing to try to avoid her.

Thanks whisky. I’ve got far better down the years at setting boundaries as I learned to say no and without needing to back it up with an explanation! But I don’t think this is about boundaries with me, but perhaps with the rest of the friendship group on the basis she behaves badly toward them but not me. When that behaviour was displayed in my home, I should have dealt with it straight away and in fact feel worse for the friends that the behaviour was directed at for not calling it out. Another friend had said people are starting to just let it go because no one actually cares enough now to bother raising it with her. They just don’t extend invites like they used to. If there are mitigating circumstances I’ll hear them but it won’t change the fact our lives are in different places and we’ve only history in common now.

Thanks Lizzie, your last sentence is what I’m afraid of. I have to be as decisive with my words as I am in my thoughts on it

I do understand - I'm in the process of something similar with an old friend. I don't like the way she treated another person. It's not even that I'm particularly close to this other person, it's more like she showed me something about her that I really didn't like in the way that she treated her.

It’s not easy is it whisky. I’ve become far less tolerant of bad behaviour as I mature.

One or two weird attacks on you, OP. I don't think you would be posting here if you didn't care. Ending a female friendship that isn't working can be very hard, and I don't think there is an easy way to be honest. None of the posts have suggested something that sounds "easy" to me.

Possibly it is better to tell her in person but then again you want to minimise the drama (for yourself too!). Meeting up to say you don't want to be friends is quite a tricky and difficult thing to do, no? You don't "owe" her an explanation by the way, whatever other posters say. And if she is emotionally unstable, she may not be able to "accept" or "hear" such an explanation anyway, or worse still she may use it against you in some way.

I ended a friendship with someone who behaved very badly to me a couple of times. After the last time, I was very clear - I just wasn't available to meet or talk in any way. I never texted except to reply am busy, or hoped she was well too. She got the message. She wasn't part of my social group though and I never saw her again. However, she lives in my town and there is always a chance I might bump into her again. If I did I'd say "hi, how are you" and smile but not much more and move along. If I saw her socially I'd just do the same.

Plus whisky your last message has given me clarity on how I frame the discussion with her. Thank you

I mean I was very clear in my own mind.

Thanks hazy. I was naively hoping me doing the same thing that you did would work. My friend knew that other areas of my life had changed and so I guess I was hoping she’d see an overall change. That was foolish of me! Thanks for your words

hmm... it depends really on your friendship and how it was in the past, if you were genuinely close, if she is genuinely able to "hear" and what might be the outcome (good or bad) of talking to her. If you do prefer to talk to her there are degrees of honestly, so maybe you could keep it "honest-lite"? Tough one.

just cross-posted!

I also think people underestimate the impact of female friendships that go "wrong", it can be sad. I had another friend I was "fading on" but contacted again 'cos I missed her! She said she'd ring me the next day - she never did. So that kind of dishonesty was painful (for me). You don't have to be 100% honest, but neither dishonesty IYKWIM.

I think only you know your friend, your relationship(s), and so forth. MN is good for getting an outside perspective or strong "confirmation" of your instincts. But only you really know the whole picture and if you are feeling genuinely clear and strong, you will know what to do.

p.s. the fact your friend could not accept the "fade" (if thats what you're saying I think) indicates she has "no boundaries" as another poster said.

Thanks hazy, appreciate your views. I’ve never had to do anything like this before. My friend will be aware that whilst I’ve made a number of excuses not to meet, it is apparent I’ve socialised with other friends. I would stress she has a very full and varied social life with other of her friends outside our mutual group so perhaps she’s busy enough for my pulling back to have not registered so much or as you say, maybe it is a boundary issue. She also doesn’t seem to be aware I know the full extent of problems that arisen with other friends. I am dreading the discussion but am unequivocal in my feelings. Thanks again

If she is an alcoholic then that doesn't extend to just drinking. It infects the entire person, whether drinking or not - in recovery parlance she is sick, emotionally, spiritually, physically. Maybe you are recoiling not just from what she has done but the whole malaise that is active addiction.

I also boggle at the idea that anyone can 'outgrow' a 40-year friendship. I don't think you are being honest with yourself about why you want to cut her off.

I have a similar issue with a friend of over 30 years. I feel like she has backed away slightly over the last year or so. I sometimes see her on a weekend over a drink usually at my suggestion. On a couple of occasions now she’s mentioned weeks later that I’ve said something that has offended her when we have been out. I have not been in any way offensive, I have actually called her out on bad behaviour towards me and others. Last time she sent me an abusive text a week later (presumably when drunk). I tried to contact her several times the following day to sort things out but she said she doesn’t want to speak at the moment. So I’m in limbo. To be honest I don’t enjoy her company any more. She has zero interest in my life and spends all night when we go out off chatting to strangers, on her phone or obsessively taking and posting photos and videos on SM. I cannot have a conversation with her because she’s not interested. It’s all about her. I feel really sad. She’s blaming me because I called her out for bad behaviour when actually in the past she’s done far worse and I’ve never mentioned it for fear of her (over) reaction. She makes me feel like I have to watch what I say. She over analyses everything I say looking for any hint of criticism then sulks with me. It’s exhausting and I am sadly now thinking friendships are not meant to be stressful. None of my others are 😞

springydaffs she’s not an alcoholic. If I or other friends thought she were it would be a very different story and not one I’d recoil from. She’s just one of those people who gets very aggressive and inappropriate when she’s drunk. Alot of her behaviour (using, free loading) is unconnected to drink. It’s possible to outgrow anything. What you may have bonded over no longer exists. I don’t like the way she treats people and I don’t enjoy spending time with her.

Amin you’re so right. My teenager doing GCSEs can be hard work. My ex definitely is. Work is demamding, juggling finances and worrying about aging parents is stressful. But all of those things are necessary. I don’t need or want anything in life that doesn’t work for me anymore. My relationship is easy going and enriching and all my friendships bar this one are. Enjoy the good friendships you have

However, I would question something about boundaries here. It sounds as though your friend has simply not experienced any setting of boundaries from you. I think that can sometimes create enormous problems - not just in terms of licensing bad behaviour, but in terms of the fact that people actually like clear boundaries, and sometimes struggle when they are not in place. Certain kinds of people will actually keep pushing until they find them. In future, maybe bear that in mind as you set up relationships!

This sounds a bit victim blaming here - are there not "normal" social boundaries that apply to everyone and everyone is aware of? Too exhausting and painful to have to police difficult people who dont get these - you dont owe them anything - you certainly dont owe them or have any responsibility to tutor them how to behave - these people know what they are doing when they put other down and are being rude - that is exactly why they do it - its not that they are socially inept/immature etc - they are just nasty.

I am with you OP - our lives become more complex as we age - we have to prioritise the good people in our lives (the 'radiators') and drop the "drains".

Sounds like you have it all sorted. Keep swerving - sounds like she is v busy and has lots of other people she can hang with / piss off - so I wouldnt let it concern you. She sounds totally toxic and will not accept a rational pet talk - but will blow up and turn on you - that is why you are are avoiding a confrontation because your gut tells you it will backfire and escalate. Just fade away......

*pep