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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

WWYD? Can I have a quick MN ruling please?

62 replies

PeppermintPasty · 08/02/2018 12:29

I will try and make this quick. My mother is a narcissist. I have not seen her since last Easter and neither have my two dc. She basically told me then that I was being excluded from her will for blah blah reasons, then accused me of making stuff up when I told her that my dad (long dead) had opposite views on the subject.

I'm not trying to be obscure, just quick!

Anyway, since then, I have facilitated about four or five phone calls to her so my dc, 7 and 10, can keep in touch with her (we live 250 miles from her, thankfully). She made it clear in one of those calls that she didn't want to speak to me unless I offered a grovelling apology. I'm not going to, I said nothing untoward, she has form for this etc etc. (She was absolutely vile to me in our last meeting, but as with all narcs this gets forgotten and it is all the other person's fault).

Anyway, so far so typical.

I generally get to London with the dc to see her 2-3 times a year, and she has had the dc to stay in previous years (though funnily enough the summer before I resolved never again, as she upset my dd).

We didn't visit at all last year. The dc do not appear to have missed her or noticed that the phone calls have dried up.

She never ever calls them. I felt I was enabling her bad behaviour by me calling, so I stopped phoning.

Midway through the year every year, she sends them some money for their savings. This year she didn't. She sent it to her other gc though, my dsis' boy.

They did get Christmas presents, sent to us as I had told my dbro that obviously I wouldn't be going to London for Christmas. The dc called the whole family, who were at my mother's, on Christmas night to say thank you for the gifts.

No further contact.

My question is a bit pathetic, but it is bothering me.

It is her birthday soon. I habitually send her flowers and a card. I feel like saying 'sod you you horrible baggage' (in my head of course!) and just sending a card signed by all three of us.

I can't decide. It's really annoying me. I don't want to give her ammunition to go all round the family saying 'oh Pasty didn't bother with my birthday blah blah', but equally I can't be arsed to pander to her by sending flowers.

To me, she has crossed a line in treating my dc differently to her other gc. She can do what she likes to me but anything aimed at them is just spiteful.

So, flowers or no flowers?

(I'm sorry if it seems trivial, but I have had this headf**k all my life and I'd love some objective opinions. The short story of my life is that she has always treated me differently to my older siblings. Currently they act like her acolytes and loathe it if I try to fight my corner, so I've given up on them as well for now). I'm completely without self pity about this by the way, having come to terms with it a while back (having kids was a revelation). Plus the Stately Homes thread has helped hugely over the years.

OP posts:
Cadence70 · 08/02/2018 12:36

No flowers and no card, let her get on with it

Snowydaysarehere · 08/02/2018 12:40

No flowers. Treat yourself instead!! I am nc with my dm, was her birthday yesterday and never crossed my mind to send anything!

LesisMiserable · 08/02/2018 12:42

Send flowers and a card. Why would you not? She has stopped sending stuff so if you do the same you're just mimicking her are you not?

But if you really don't want to then cut it off altogether and don't look back.

Velvetbee · 08/02/2018 12:43

No flowers or card.

iggleypiggly · 08/02/2018 12:45

Don’t send either. You are functioning perfectly well. You don’t miss her, neither do your DC, narcissists don’t change. It will get easier as time goes on. Don’t let her have any control over you Flowers

GlitterUnicornsAndAllThatJazz · 08/02/2018 12:45

I would send flowers

Merryoldgoat · 08/02/2018 12:48

Nothing. I'd not send her a thing. She sounds vile.

Flomy · 08/02/2018 12:49

No flowers. No card. No bloody way.

Let her tell everyone. They will probably be thinking "Im not suprised"

Stop letting her absorb your thinking. Clear your head of her. Use that brain time thinking about your lovely DC etc.

She is robbing you of your energy, your time, your thoughts, your life.

Original poster
PeppermintPasty · 08/02/2018 12:51

Well yes Les, that is what I would be concerned about-being as bad as her. And anyone with a narc mother knows the horror of imagining that you are in any way like them!!

There is an argument for me to 'rise above it', but at the same time I think why the hell should I? I am super cross at how she is treating my beautiful children (though they are pretty much unaware), and she is simply a horrid mean old woman these days.

The interesting question for me is why this silly issue seems to be bothering me so much! I am usually quite steely when it comes to her.

OP posts:
RedialCallHold · 08/02/2018 12:51

It's a no vote from me.
Why should she get anything, if she made an effort with your kids you could send some to her from them but the fact she never calls them is very telling.
Show your kids no one has the right to walk all over you, even if they're family.

Original poster
PeppermintPasty · 08/02/2018 12:52

Yes, I need to clear my head that's for sure.

OP posts:
RedialCallHold · 08/02/2018 12:53

Sorry x post, it bothers you because 1) at heart you're a good person and this 'don't care attitude' seems alien to you and 2) because by the sounds of it you've literally been raised to do what pleases her. Ignore her.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 08/02/2018 12:54

Threatening to cut you out of the will is a common tactic employed by such disordered people in an attempt to bring their victim back into line and the dysfunctional fold.

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist and you would be wise indeed not to further expose your children to her emotional manipulations either. She was not a good parent to you when growing up and she is a poor example of a grandparent figure to your children (whom she will basically use as narcissistic supply). She has not changed since your own childhood and the assigned roles are the same. You have golden children here and a scapegoat i.e. you. (Those "golden" people are also acting as her flying monkeys sent in by her to do her work for her). Your children get scapegoated as well (hence money being sent instead to your sister's child). You do not need her in your lives. Your children won't miss her particularly if you do not keep bringing the subject of your mother up.

Deal with your own fear, obligation and guilt re your narcissist mother through seeing a therapist. You've been trained for many years to serve her hence you at all facilitating your children's phone calls to her. Thankfully you no longer do that. The daughters of narcissistic mothers website is also helpful.

Do not send her anything. You owe her precisely nothing.

QuiteLikely5 · 08/02/2018 12:55

Anyone who treats my children as second class citizens would not get the time of day from me.

This shows them how valuable they are to you and helps instil decent boundaries.

If the woman is a nutter chances are she won’t change

I know it’s hard when it’s your own mother but your a woman and mother yourself in your own right. To hell with her!

Bojangles33 · 08/02/2018 12:55

I would send the card and flowers but sign it just from the kids.

LesisMiserable · 08/02/2018 12:59

I would say if your children are unaware and not hurt then to put that in obeyance and see the line between your feelings and theirs.

This is about you and mum.

I know 'being the better person' can get wearing. But there is nothing whatsoever martyrish about sending you mum flowers and a card as you always have. As someone else said, not doing doesnt sit easy because you're not naturally a mean spirited person. So if it was me I wouldnt fight my feelings. If I was in anyway in doubt - I would do what I'd always done and send them anyway.

It won't effect your children. But I think if you don't you will dwell on it - and that isn't clearing your headspace - not at all.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 08/02/2018 13:01

Patty,

What your mother wants is a response, and that to such people is the reward. I urge you not to send your mother anything; you really do owe this woman precisely nothing.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not. I put it to you that your mother is no different. This woman after all has been horrid to one of your children, why should she receive a card from them at all?. Nasty behaviours stemming from wanting power and control over you all should not be at all tolerated nor rewarded in any way.

Original poster
PeppermintPasty · 08/02/2018 13:06

Thank you, all of you.

Attila, I have read lots of your wise posts on this topic over the years.

I am pretty proud of myself for getting to the point I am at-I have an understanding of what my mother is and what she did to me when I was growing up. I have read the books that have been recommended, battled against the FOG, even got my dsis to see it all once, but then she went into denial and it all got swept under the carpet!

I will keep trying to be my best protector, and protector to the children. I have concluded in this last year that it is very likely that we will never see her again. That's a strange feeling, but not a bad one. I can't forgive someone putting my dc down, never mind me!

OP posts:
trevthecat · 08/02/2018 13:06

No card, no flowers. I'd just leave things now. You have tried. Concentrate on your dc and use the Money you would of spent on flowers to take the kids out somewhere

mooncuplanding · 08/02/2018 13:08

I say no too for a few reasons

  • you send flowers to people you love and value. The reason you would be sending them is to keep the 'peace'. Being truthful to yourself is key to your own wellbeing. You might manage a card? But that's up to you...what do you want to express to this person? This is all the more difficult with a narcissist who is constantly making you question your truth, but being truthful is always the way
  • if you make the move to truth this year, this won't bother you every year.
OutyMcOutface · 08/02/2018 13:12

I was lc with my mother. Flowers sent by the florist were my 'fuck you!' Gift. Completely imprersonal but enough of a standard thoughtful gift that she had no right to complain.

Original poster
PeppermintPasty · 08/02/2018 13:16

Yes Outy that's kind of where I'm at/what I'm thinking. She can't bitch about me for not sending her a gift.

But why should I even care about that? Jeez, it's hard to shift the obligation you feel after they've done a number on you all your life!

OP posts:
TempusEejit · 08/02/2018 13:17

Agree with atilla, mooncup and others, no flowers, no card.

Weezol · 08/02/2018 13:20

No flowers, no card. Stop putting yourself and your kids back into her orbit an any way. Even if you have sent them in the past, she may well have made out you didn't to those around her. Stop handing her a stick to beat yoy with.

No Contact means No Contact at all. Donate the card/flower money to the local womens' refuge or kids charity.

OutyMcOutface · 08/02/2018 13:22

For me it was about not giving her the satisfaction of bitching me out on the one hand but also because I felt a bit sorry for her. I could see that whole she was 100% responsibile she wasn't completely to blame. But she died before I had children. If she had treated my children the way she had treated me I would have sent her fuck you flowers that actually said fuck you and never spoken to her again.

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