WWYD? Can I have a quick MN ruling please?

[PeppermintPasty]

I will try and make this quick. My mother is a narcissist. I have not seen her since last Easter and neither have my two dc. She basically told me then that I was being excluded from her will for blah blah reasons, then accused me of making stuff up when I told her that my dad (long dead) had opposite views on the subject.

I'm not trying to be obscure, just quick!

Anyway, since then, I have facilitated about four or five phone calls to her so my dc, 7 and 10, can keep in touch with her (we live 250 miles from her, thankfully). She made it clear in one of those calls that she didn't want to speak to me unless I offered a grovelling apology. I'm not going to, I said nothing untoward, she has form for this etc etc. (She was absolutely vile to me in our last meeting, but as with all narcs this gets forgotten and it is all the other person's fault).

Anyway, so far so typical.

I generally get to London with the dc to see her 2-3 times a year, and she has had the dc to stay in previous years (though funnily enough the summer before I resolved never again, as she upset my dd).

We didn't visit at all last year. The dc do not appear to have missed her or noticed that the phone calls have dried up.

She never ever calls them. I felt I was enabling her bad behaviour by me calling, so I stopped phoning.

Midway through the year every year, she sends them some money for their savings. This year she didn't. She sent it to her other gc though, my dsis' boy.

They did get Christmas presents, sent to us as I had told my dbro that obviously I wouldn't be going to London for Christmas. The dc called the whole family, who were at my mother's, on Christmas night to say thank you for the gifts.

No further contact.

My question is a bit pathetic, but it is bothering me.

It is her birthday soon. I habitually send her flowers and a card. I feel like saying 'sod you you horrible baggage' (in my head of course!) and just sending a card signed by all three of us.

I can't decide. It's really annoying me. I don't want to give her ammunition to go all round the family saying 'oh Pasty didn't bother with my birthday blah blah', but equally I can't be arsed to pander to her by sending flowers.

To me, she has crossed a line in treating my dc differently to her other gc. She can do what she likes to me but anything aimed at them is just spiteful.

So, flowers or no flowers?

(I'm sorry if it seems trivial, but I have had this headf**k all my life and I'd love some objective opinions. The short story of my life is that she has always treated me differently to my older siblings. Currently they act like her acolytes and loathe it if I try to fight my corner, so I've given up on them as well for now). I'm completely without self pity about this by the way, having come to terms with it a while back (having kids was a revelation). Plus the Stately Homes thread has helped hugely over the years.

I wouldn't bother either. Flowers are too expensive to waste on someone like that who won't appreciate them. She'll probably complain they aren't made of gold and weren't delivered by a unicorn.

What are you going to do on Mothering Sunday, which is coming up soon?
The birthday and MS between them should set a template for future behaviour.

I’m a bit concerned that by sending a card you are showing that you are still emotionally invested in worrying about your toxic mother’s opinion of you. You are still dancing to her tune, still letting her call the shots.
I also had a narcissist mother, and I stopped all contact when I was 33 and expecting my first child, so I do understand your situation.
Please have a think about exactly WHY you want to send that card?
I can’t see any healthy reason - you’re either doing it from misplaced guilt, or fear of her disapproval, or a passive aggressive wish to accentuate the lack of a present - none of these are good reasons, are they? I think you should put your own feelings first, for a change. You owe this poisonous woman nothing.
The only reason anyone should send anyone else a card is because they love them, like them, or care about them. Please ponder it awhile!
Whatever you decide to do, do it for you, not her. And have a big hug from me, as a fellow survivor - I know how tough this stuff can be.

Thanks again.

Babdoc your offer of a supportive hug made me tear up, ridiculous isn't it?

I totally appreciate what you're all saying, but I want them all to leave us alone. They all live miles away from us, and I think the best way to draw the least attention to ourselves, if you see what I mean, is to send a card.

I reckon that if I don't send a card, I will get grief from my siblings, possibly fired up by her, and I can really do without it. I can have as many showdowns as I want with them after she's dead, to be frank.

I like them both, but my dsis is stupid about stuff like this, and other stuff in the family. She loves a bit of drama and shit stirring, and I don't have the headspace for her at the moment.

Although, she has decided she's not speaking to me for one reason or another (her little dramas again). Instead of chasing her to ask why I simply haven't been in contact. It would be funny to see her wriggle around if I didn't send mother anything-dsis would be absolutely desperate to have a go at me but wouldn't be able to because she's decided she's not talking to me any more!!

Bloody families.

Patty

The FOG is still very much present with you isn't it. You're still very much being trained here and have been really since soon after birth onwards. Any kindness is seen as a weakness to these people and they have exploited you for many years now.

Please do not do this to yourself and in turn your children whom she has also treated very badly here. Doing this, even something as supposedly innocuous as sending a card, rewards her behaviour further. I have probably said to you before it is a response that such people want more than anything else. Sending her a card gives her and her flying monkeys an "in" to bother you even more which is patently not what you want. Your wish to be left alone will not be granted because this is the sort of thing that enables them to draw the likes of you back into their dysfunctional fold.

If a friend had treated you like this would you send them a card?. No you would not. I put it to you that your mother is no different and nor is your sister.

I would struggle with not sending her a card and flowers however she has behaved in past.

Can I recommend you read the book “Toxic Parents” by Susan Forward? It’s very helpful on how to deal with this kind of situation. It might help you to put boundaries in place with your siblings as well as your mother, so that you are in charge of what you will tolerate or not. For example, if they start blaming you or being obnoxious during a phone call, you calmly tell them you will not listen to it and just hang up. If you do this consistently, either they will eventually be “trained” to treat you with respect, or they will fail to learn and the “newly empowered you” can decide whether it’s worth continuing contact with them or not.
I lived 450 miles away from my ghastly mother, and after realising she was a narcissist who was never going to be a decent mum and would always try to destroy my self esteem, I wrote her a letter spelling out my reasons for severing all contact. I never spoke to her again, and felt nothing but relief when she finally died.
You are doing really well - you recognise that your mother is the problem, not you. You are no longer accepting the guilt trip and scapegoat role that she’s trying to push you into. This is excellent progress- some victims of narcissists never manage to get to that point, they meekly accept their parent’s poisonous view of them and are damaged for life.
Be proud of yourself, and continue to take control of your own life!
Sending you good wishes of strength and support. God bless.

My feelings are if you don’t send your usual gifts it looks as if maybe too much thought has gone into not sending them iyswim. I know you don’t want to game play but please don’t give her ammunition.
Send the flowers and card as per usual. ‘ with all god wishes for your Birthday’ leaves you looking like the better person you are but doesn’t gush lots of love and kisses
I’d hope that would embarrass her but wouldn’t hold my breath

Oh dear, am I? I do find it hard I grant you. I actually think they would be more inclined to leave me alone if I sent a card than if I didn't.

I will think about it some more.

Actually, a parcel has just arrived for my ds (it's his birthday this week), from his gm, and normally I'd get him to call her after he's opened it. I'm not doing that this time, absolutely no way.

I realise that in making the calls previously, it totally lets her off the hook in terms of keeping in contact with my dc. She NEVER calls them, yet expects them/me to call her.

Why she wouldn't naturally want to call her gc on their birthdays is beyond me, but I bet she won't, unless it's to see why we haven't called, at which point she'll make snide remarks to me about why was I so rude as to fail to confirm that the gift had arrived.

She can forget all that rubbish this year.

Sorry, that was to Attila, about me still being deep in the fog.

Yes Babdoc, I do have that book, I read a little of it a few years ago when all this was a revelation to me! I better get back to it!

My mum is the same, I have been NC the same amount of time as well! I would send a boring card to stay under the radar and give it no more headspace. It is hard having a crap mother, hugs to you.