WWYD? Can I have a quick MN ruling please?

[PeppermintPasty]

I will try and make this quick. My mother is a narcissist. I have not seen her since last Easter and neither have my two dc. She basically told me then that I was being excluded from her will for blah blah reasons, then accused me of making stuff up when I told her that my dad (long dead) had opposite views on the subject.

I'm not trying to be obscure, just quick!

Anyway, since then, I have facilitated about four or five phone calls to her so my dc, 7 and 10, can keep in touch with her (we live 250 miles from her, thankfully). She made it clear in one of those calls that she didn't want to speak to me unless I offered a grovelling apology. I'm not going to, I said nothing untoward, she has form for this etc etc. (She was absolutely vile to me in our last meeting, but as with all narcs this gets forgotten and it is all the other person's fault).

Anyway, so far so typical.

I generally get to London with the dc to see her 2-3 times a year, and she has had the dc to stay in previous years (though funnily enough the summer before I resolved never again, as she upset my dd).

We didn't visit at all last year. The dc do not appear to have missed her or noticed that the phone calls have dried up.

She never ever calls them. I felt I was enabling her bad behaviour by me calling, so I stopped phoning.

Midway through the year every year, she sends them some money for their savings. This year she didn't. She sent it to her other gc though, my dsis' boy.

They did get Christmas presents, sent to us as I had told my dbro that obviously I wouldn't be going to London for Christmas. The dc called the whole family, who were at my mother's, on Christmas night to say thank you for the gifts.

No further contact.

My question is a bit pathetic, but it is bothering me.

It is her birthday soon. I habitually send her flowers and a card. I feel like saying 'sod you you horrible baggage' (in my head of course!) and just sending a card signed by all three of us.

I can't decide. It's really annoying me. I don't want to give her ammunition to go all round the family saying 'oh Pasty didn't bother with my birthday blah blah', but equally I can't be arsed to pander to her by sending flowers.

To me, she has crossed a line in treating my dc differently to her other gc. She can do what she likes to me but anything aimed at them is just spiteful.

So, flowers or no flowers?

(I'm sorry if it seems trivial, but I have had this headf**k all my life and I'd love some objective opinions. The short story of my life is that she has always treated me differently to my older siblings. Currently they act like her acolytes and loathe it if I try to fight my corner, so I've given up on them as well for now). I'm completely without self pity about this by the way, having come to terms with it a while back (having kids was a revelation). Plus the Stately Homes thread has helped hugely over the years.

Send them and sign them from the dog. If you don't have a dog, sign them from the neighbours dog.

MycatsaPirate

Neighbour's dog it is!

I agree with Attila. No contact is nocontact. At all. You need to protect your children from her. She will damage them. Send her nowt. Don't engage in her games and send flowers from the dog or any passive aggressive gifts. As Attila said, any response is a reward for her.

just a card. just write 'Happy birthday from 'Peppermint and family' then she cant say you did nothing

I would go completely no contact.

The only thing i would warn is that she might to try to get back at you Mine has but it has had little practical effect. My life is so much more peaceful and positive. I will never give that up.

What do your siblings think of her behaviour? It would make me feel very uncomfortable that’s my children got gifts but my nephews and nieces didn’t.

But on the whole, if you are genuinely unconcerned then don’t send anything.

Ok, I'm being flippant now, but if you can arrange for the flowers to be sent from a florist very local to her, use a prepaid credit card and just have the message card read 'with love from all your friends on Landing 2, B Wing, HMP Holloway xxx'

Oh, I was joking about the dog! Quite funny though.

My siblings are ridiculous, to the point of being text book flying monkeys, as Attila alluded to above. My dbro, the eldest, tries to appear detached and 'above it all'. When I phoned him after the conversation with my mother at Easter and told him what she had said, and what dad had always said on the subject, he actually said to me "well, he never mentioned that to me", thereby implying that our df didn't say those things and I was making it up! Honestly, it's so pathetic (the implications of what my dad said) that only a loon would make it up. I was pissed off but not surprised. Since then I have had no contact with him either, although that's not very unusual.

My dsis is totally in the fear, obligation and guilt thing that surrounds a narc parent. So much so that my mother slags her off left right and centre, yet dsis calls her every night under the guise of checking on her, but it is really because she dare not do otherwise. We cannot have an honest conversation about our mother. Dsis has her own massive issues as a result of our dear mother, though she tends to blame them on our dead dad! He was the only reason we didn't all end up irretrievably batshit, though I've come to understand that even he enabled my mother's behaviour.

I would ask the children if they would like to send her a birthday card, and if so just have them sign it. If they're not bothered then send nothing.

I could not discuss my mother with my brother either. Somethings are just too painful. Going NC , even though it is the right thing to do, puts you in a no win situation. You have stopped physically hearing their abuse, but they are so far inside your head, that they are always with you.

I am a ‘no’ vote for flowers or card. She will abuse you what ever you do. However, I think that the longer you can keep the NC the easier it becomes.

Just send cards from the DCs (if they want to), you don't have to send anything from yourself.

Don't send anything
Keep in touch with your D siblings
for all anyone knows she will leave the lot to charity or spend it all, she is not stable.
I think you need to get your head around her treatment and behaviour of you and yours , decide what you are going to do if your mum dies ie will you go to the funeral? How will you feel being left out of the will or not being able to have a momento of your Dads from the house etc etc you get my drift I am sure.
I am so sorry OP it really sucks to have a mum like this .

I’d send nothing. She’s not a nice person let alone a nice mum - would you go to such extremes for a friend? Sack her off.

I think the question here is really, are you ready to go no contact or low contact? Decide from there.

I'd send the ugliest card I could find with minimum message. I'm childish like that.

When my mum didn’t call me on my birthday I thought ‘great she has set the precedent ‘ when she didn’t acknowledge my sons birth, then she chose not to have anything to do with him.

There are consequences for your actions and if she chooses to disrespect you, treat your children badly and badmouth you, then she looses contact.

Interesting she bitched about the girls, but you haven’t mentioned how badly she treats your bro. Would not be surprised if he is treated a lot differently (better).

Aussiebean dbro has mainly been the golden child, which comes with its own pressures I'll admit.

He's a nice man my bro, he's been a good big brother on the whole, but a bit feeble these days. I think he realises what she is but he is an intelligent man and probably feels there is little point in making a fuss as it won't change her. The trouble is, that makes me feel like there's no one in my corner of course.

I remember almost crying tears of gratitude that he'd acknowledged the issue once in front of the whole family, -my mother was making a gratuitous and overblown fuss of my ds when he was just toddling. There was someone there, a friend of my brother's, and she was basically trying to impress this person. She was making ds laugh repeatedly, which was fine. But then she turned to the visitor and said something along the lines of "of course, Pasty is just SO lucky to have a naturally good natured child. You're SO lucky Pasty" on and on she went, clearly implying that even with me as a mother, ds had managed to overcome this dreadful handicap and be delightful.

My dbro turned to her and said it was in no small part down to me that my son was so happy and lovely, he said to her give it a rest mother, etc etc.

I nearly fell off my chair and my heart burst with good feeling for him. Pathetic isn't it?!

Why are you encouraging your children to have a relationship with a cruel narcisstic who will hurt and confuse them?

What are children of 7 and 10 supposed to think when they speak to her and see her but you don’t ? So she’s so vile that you want to stay away from her and protect yourself but you’ll let her speak to your kids?

Sending her a card and flowers “ so she can’t say I ignored her birthday” is just silly. She can say whatever she likes to anyone, you can’t control her. You’ve already admitted that she talks badly of your sister who dutifully phones her every night.

And yes, she definitely has a thing about the females in the family.

Last summer she had my two for two weeks. My dd was only six and was missing me dreadfully. We Skyped and called every day etc and I also wrote her a letter, with silly drawings of our pets and telling her I was looking after things at home etc. She loved it, but the next time we spoke she was in tears. She said she had written me a letter but my mother wouldn't let her post it! The post box is about five hundred yards from her house.

Mother was chuntering in the background and came on the phone saying "she's being ridiculous, she'll be seeing you in four days, she can give it to you then". I had stern words then, and she let her post it the next day.

Who does that to a little child? What a cow!

I wouldn't say I was "encouraging" them. It is a difficult situation in one way-she is their gm and my mother, it has taken years of unravelling for me to put distance between us and for me to understand what she is.

If you read my op you will see that I do not facilitate contact with them via the phone any more. They don't see her any more and neither do I. Please don't imply that I am not doing the best by my dc.

Any time you weaken towards your mother, just think back to your six year old wanting to post you a letter. Take a deep breath in, let it out, square you shoulders and tell yourself 'I am protecting my children by protecting myself'.

Don't send anthing from any of you. Then next year you can be free of this decision. Set the precedent now and break the cycle so that you can't get drawn back in. It's triggering the old FOG behaviours and thoughts, acknowledge them and let them go, tell them 'I am free of you' out loud if you need to.

Each time you 'let your no be no' it will get easier.

Yes, you are right. Thank you Weezol, and everyone who has taken the time to reply.

I'm in exactly the same situation except without siblings. I send my mother something, usually flowers and very non commital message and cards and then wipe it from my thoughts.

She's not be able to broadcast far and wide that I don't bother and
I refuse to give her any power to make me change how I feel about myself regardless of how she treats me or what she says about me. She absolutely cannot change me from the decent person I am. I know if I played tit for tat with her on things like this, I'd be full of resentment for stooping to her level.

I've given it some thought, and taken on board the points you have all made.

I am going to send her a card, we will just sign our names, no message, -unless the dc are moved to write more, which I doubt.

She's not getting flowers, it seems over the top when you set that against all the horrors we've put up with from her. Knickers to it.

Although some of you say don't send a thing, and I am usually pretty hard line about her, I think a card will be polite at the very least.

What a silly thing to feel, that I should be polite to my mother. Coolly polite, that's how I see it.

We won't be calling her on her birthday, something we normally would have done.

I'm done, basically. I really believe we will never see her again. I'm certainly not going to London to visit ever again, so that's that I guess.

Thanks again you lovely lot.

you can have flowers ===>

Hah!

That sounds good Peppermint.
You could consider going ahead and buying 10 generic birthday cards, sign them all- just names- every one the same. Put them in the envelopes, address them and possibly even stamp them. Keep them somewhere and every year pop one in the mail on the appointed day. No thought to it. No emotional involvement, just an administrative task that checks a box that is for you: you want to send your mum a bd card. It really has nothing to do with her.

Sorry you have a crap mum.