Family wedding - ds2 not welcome and I feel so hurt

[TW]

This is a situation that I have to deal with but am finding it extremely hard.
Dh's brother is getting married in October. He is great and she is great too (7 yrs younger than me but we get on really well). HOWEVER, when they got engaged they asked ds1 (6 on the day of the wedding) and dd (4) to be page boy and bridesmaid. No mention, literally, of ds2, who will be 2.5 at the time of the wedding. Fair enough. Some people go for them this small, some people think it's a bit too young, and I think I would be inclined to agree. Though I have to say that it simply didn't arise for me as neither I nor dh had young relatives.
I was then told pointedly that ds1 and dd would be the only children at the wedding.
There is under 2 yrs between each of my children and they are a team. I am devastated, truly devastated. I made my mind up that he would be as involved as possible; he'd come with us for the w/e, see all the family, including some coming from abroad etc, but childcare has proved impossible, so I have now had to concede and my parents are driving 3 hours to come to our home to look after him for the weekend. I cry whenever I think about it. I am going to be so gutted to get in the car and drive away from him to such a happy family event in which he is simply not included.
I don't want to speak to the bride as she has an awful lot on her plate (surprisingly). My MIL is I think behind it all and reckons he has no right to be there says it's a "special day" for the other two - as if it is somehow more special because he's not involved. But the worst thing is the way they all seem to think that if they don't actually mention him, it isn't really an issue.
Isn't it completely extraordinary for a niece/nephew of the bride or groom to be quite so deliberately excluded? I have not yet met anyone who hasn't been totally perplexed by this decision.
I need to be able to deal with it. Please advise me if you can. Ds 1 only learnt today that ds2 was not going and there was silence. I just can't see how on earth I am going to enjoy the day.

what does anyone think of my idea of talking to one of them? at least it would instigate "dialogue" and they might realise how silly it is. As I say, I think it's a real head-in-the-sand thing - if no-one discusses it it ain't there.

I agree with www.

As mentioned on another thread like this recently... () I would just take him along anyway. Presumably you could bring food for him if necessary. It is very unlikely that she will say anything on the day. OR just not go at all and don't let your other children be bridesmaids etc.
Don't know if this helps but I really find all this wedding nonsense so silly! It's a party - that's all - one 2 and a half year old is not going to make or break it (for them) but will for you!

TW- I am appalled at the very thought of the family even considering leaving your ds2 out of this family event. This must of been worrying you for ages and I cant think of the situation improving nearer the event. Take the bull by the horns so to speak and perhaps diplomatically at first discuss it with the bride and groom and find out the feelings for excluding ds. If you still get no joy I would tell them to stick it...I dont think you will enjoy the day without ds2 there anyway!! Feeling and for you. Hope it works out.

that is so totally wierd - why on earth would she have your other kids there? Poor DS2 - has she thought AT ALL how you're going to explain this to him?

I think your idea of a discrete word with the BIL is good. If you sound puzzled, instead of angry, then it's a good way to avoid an arguement. 100 quid says it had nothing to do with him in the first place (men!) You're right - any words with the bride/MIL will result in hysteria.

oh TW, I am so sorry. This kind of thing really gets my back up - it's wedding mania gone mad - see my comments on prufrock's thread. it's ok to wheel in cute littlies like some kind of elaborate stage prop, but ignore real people and real families.
Sorry - I know ranting won't help you negotiate a really difficult family situation. Can your DH not speak to them and calmly explain that it puts you in a really difficult situation, and isn't really a comfortable option?
otherwise, bluff and say the other two would be far too bored, fidgetty, say how kind it is to have asked them, but you think they are rally too young and you would hate their fidgetting to cause problems etc - and withdraw all the kids, and have an adu;t day out while someone else minds the children?

I have to agree with everyone else - I think this is appalling & can't even imagine anyone suggesting it in the first place. I would definately go on the all or nothing approach.

I think it is completely unreasonable of anyone to even think that you'd leave one kid behind. Poor you . I hope you get this sorted out.

can you imagine him looking at photos of the wedding later, and him noticing that he wasn't there. If that won't drive a wedge between him and his uncle and auntie, I don;t know what will. I agree with everyone, all 3 kids or none of them!
I'm sure at this stage you are allowed to politely discuss it with the couple/whoever. I can't imagine how this must feel for you. Don't let yourself be bulldozed, but just be polite and firm without resorting angery words.
I'm sure it will work out if you let them know how you feel. Just say that you've been trying to go along with their plan, and have jsut got to the point where you can't do it any more.
Good luck, you are right about this, and you know you are tooo, which makes it hard

TW, I think sobernow's post is exactly what your BIL needs to read.

Very well said Sobernow.

I agree with all that has been said. I would stamp my feet and throw a tantrum! Your dh should support you on this one and there is nothing like a good tantrum to get it out of your system and to get dh's attention. - well it works for children, (unless there mums are MNers!).
Seriously this makes me
The last few weddings I went to had special areas especially for children, with an 'auntie' to look after them! How dare they say your ds can't gobut his brother and sister can, Ithink it is them that have the problem. Is possible that you are not the only guest that they have said this to, if so I would contact the other mums.

Poor you and how cruel and thoughtless of them. I think talking to them is a good idea - best if you could talk to both of them together and try and catch them off guard. Also is it possible to talk in person rather than on the phone?

Try and phrase your q's so that it isn't easy for them to give the wrong answer i.e. If you say 'Am I right that ds2 is not invited? It is easy for them to say 'Yes you are right.'

But if you say 'We are all very upset at the prospect of leaving ds2 out of the wedding celebrations and I wanted to check if there had been a misunderstanding. Do you really not want him there?

It will hopefully be hard for them to say No we dont want him there.

Maybe you could have some suggestions ready for how to deal with any potential problems keeping him amused.

Good luck - I am sure that if you tackle them head on but in a friendly way it will be hard for them to refuse.

I have no intention of doing it over the phone - it will be face-to-face. Do you think that both of them together is the best option? I just feel that they will gain a lot of strength from each other and maybe even say "oh you'll have to let us discuss it" thus ending the conversation. I am more likely to get an honest exchange, do you not think, if there is only one of them there. And I think HE is better than HER, as he is HIS nephew, and HE's the real traitor here - how dare he insinuate that his smallest nephew is that unimportant. I can understand that she might take or leave them!

TW - I'd do it with both of them to really drive the point home but be very firm and say that if ds2 can't go NONE of your kids will go and then if they want to discuss it, reiterate that the only choices are 3 kids or NO kids.

IMO this is disgusting - its not as if you're a distant acquiantance - you're family and close family at that!!! Don't let them do it to you, put your foot down. It definitely isn't too late to speak up now, they should have more sense than to expect to get their way.

tw agree with the others that it sound very unfair and silly. My DS attended my sister's wedding aged 2.5 where I was a bridesmaid and DH was an usher and he managed perfectly well. Admittedly this was partly due to him as an individual and partly due to the effort DH and I put in before - buying him new books to look at etc and during - keeping him occupied and amused. I definitely think you should try and get them to understand how you feel and follow tealady's advice about the wording of questions. Sit down and have a good think about it before hand.

Blimey TW, you are so far from being a primadonna, you are so ?grown up and sensible? you ought to be canonised ? how considerate you are about the stress the bride and groom are under. I?ve already ranted and raved about how selfish people are about weddings nowadays in the last week (in Prufrock?s thread), but this is yet another case in point ? just because it?s the custom to be selfish and thoughtless, that doesn?t mean it?s right ? fifty years ago, it was the custom to beat your wife.

Jesus, I?m gobsmacked ? banning all children is one thing, banning some children is another, but making some children props and banning siblings from the same family is downright disgusting. I would just invent a minor operation which my mother is going to have one day before the wedding, leaving her incapacitated (something to do with the bladder is good ? people don?t like to pursue their enquiries), and explain that either all of you will be coming or none ? and in fact, you may have to go and visit your mum the day after the wedding, to look after her ? that will concentrate their minds. The world doesn?t revolve around anyone, even if they are getting married. They?ll deal with it ? don?t feel guilty about it. You don?t have to be confrontational or anything, but a little white lie goes a long way. And don?t feel guilty about wanting your children to have equal opportunities!

I couldn't really pick up how much discussion there was at the beginning about ds2 - it doesn't sound like there was much at all and they may not even know how upset you are by all this. I think you just need to let them know that you want to bring him too without going into the fact that we all think they're mad. I don't think doing on the phone is a big problem. It is absolutely your right to say it now. I suppose what I'm trying to say is - have you got really worked up about it while they're completely oblivious that there may be a problem? Would a straightforward conversation solve that problem?

OY! Come on out, all you supporters of the Happy Couple's Big Day and their divine right to play havoc with other people's families - surely you can put the other side of the argument here?

Say nothing, just take him and pretend you assumed he was included all along?

Yes, that's the other alternative. TBH, they'll be so busy with all the other stuff, they might not even notice. And as they haven't mentioned it, they might actually think that in fact, that's the done thing - and it was their mistake for not having specifically spelled it out!

Worth a try? It's a non-confrontational approach...

Yes, emwi, I have got completely worked up without their being aware that there's a problem. Because I have just accepted what they want and never queried it.
There has never been any discussion about this poor child at all. They spoke to ds1 and dd, then declared to me that they thought it would be a nice "treat" for them to be involved in this way. I know, absolutely and completely, that this came from my MIL. I suspect that the conversation (following dh's suggestion that all 3 be involved) was thus: "We feel that child3 is too young - how can we get round this?" MIL: "No, absolutely not, it will be a lovely treat for the other two" as if they are somehow more deserving of this"treat" than their brother. The Happy Couple, desperate to justify their decision, will have grabbed hold of this and therefore used it to me - their way of explaining why it was only the two of them being asked to participate without actually mentioning the little one himself. Then, half an hour later, they said "X and Y will be the only children at the wedding" - I think this was by way of saying that there would be no special arrangements such as food or babysitting laid on. Fine by me, they will be ready to crash out by the time we are sitting down to eat anyway.
I have to add that I would leave my children behind at any other wedding given the choice. We have done so in the past, even when they have been specifically invited and there have been loads of kids. It is the fact that he is the ONLY one. He is a gorgeous outgoing, bright little third child. If he were to see his sibs going up the aisle he would undoubtedly yell their names and want to be with them. i would remove him at that point. But any suggestion that he is too young to realise what is going on is quite offensive - and a family member should damn-well know that. He should really also be a page and he would be impeccable. I cry.

I'm going now, but I just want to say how very much I appreciate all your support. I shall let you knwo how it goes - hopefully I shall get a chance to speak to them next week.
Thanks everyone. xx

I never understand why people don't like children at weddings. Yes children can run riot but weddings celebrate marriage and with that the future, families and kids!!!! We recently went to my dh's cousin's wedding and it was not until we asked about highchairs a weeke before that we were told children were banned and did we not notice our dd's name not being on the invite!!! I have to say that your situation is even more strange. You are right he should also be a page. Unfortunately, until people become parents, they don't realise that when they reject your child (regardless of whether it is along with others or not), they have also offended and hurt you. Take care TW. I dearly hope it all works out.

I'm a late arrival to this discussion but agree with the consensus that it stinks. Either all 3 kids should be involved or none. I would bet that they are also getting married at a picturesque church in order to have nicer photos. Your DH should put his foot down as it's his family.

No you don't have to be in charge of the other 2 because DH is an usher. They are treating you as an accessory too - the child minder (but only of the chosen children). They want the 2 kids and DH - fine. He can cease to be an usher and take charge of the children instead, and you can be elsewhere with DS2. If they want a row they can have one.

Bl**dy hell TW, this is a DISGRACE.

Oh no, but of course, I forgot, Its "THEIR" day which means sod the feelings of anyone else, ESPECIALLY our guests, particularly the ones who are close family.

Am I right in thinking that firstly, your two older children were asked to perform duties (which naturally any young child would be thrilled about). Once they were baited, only then were you told that your youngest child was not welcome.

This has put you in a dreadful position and I can't help thinking that they have been highly manipulative towards you and your children in the quest for "their perfect day". Sorry to be so derogatory about your relatives as I'm sure usually they are lovely, but their attitude here is shameful.

You have now been driven along by the tide of events, being polite, trying not to make a fuss, hoping that someone, anyone, would see sense and realise that this is definitely not on.

I agree with www, that the time has come to put your foot down.

I'd say something (or write a letter if it feels better) along these lines:

Tell them that you have been extremely uncomfortable about this from the beginning. You have tried very hard to go along with what they want, but this is "guest list rules" gone too far. You have always treated your children equally and you can't in all honesty start treating them unfairly now. You have respected their wishes about excluding 1 of your 3 children from having a "role" in the day, despite it going against your family values (ie fairness). But, its pushing those values too far to expect you to leave 1 member of your family behind for a weekend(who also happens to be a two and a half year old little boy)whilst the other 4 attend.

Anyone else at the wedding (whose children have also been banned)would COMPLETELY understand why the baby brother of the bridesmaid and page boy were there. Remind them of this, as I think this is where this half baked, batty and downright insulting idea comes from.

If you say all this and they still won't budge, then simply take him anyway. If anyone kicks up a fuss on the day, then be straight and tell them what was asked of you was unreasonable.

This may be the only time any of your children are asked to perform this task. It is indeed a special day for them, one which ALL of their close family should share.

This has taken me ages to write, so forgive me if I've repeated what others have said etc.

Good luck.