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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband rages - man tantrum or am I impossible?

51 replies

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 11:07

I am feeling low today and hoping MN can help me understand something.

Background - Myself and DH both had appalling childhoods - neglect peppered with abuse. DV and too many children/chaotic too young parents in my house, alcoholism and neglect in his.

DH is a good husband and father - takes on the bulk of child care and ferries kids to all their activities etc. Also works full time. Over the last few years he has started to have 'rages' that are impossible to stop. They are based around his 'life being shit' people 'making him late' or 'wasting his money/time' etc. They are fairly short lived and usually last as long as the job or whatever he is doing - he then expects us to all 'forget it' because 'he was stressed'.

FIL has always had these rages and been physically abusive. We are NC with them after he pushed me over for being 'in his way' when I was 8 months pregnant.

My F has also always had rages - he once attacked me in a shopping centre because I did not congratulate him warmly enough when he told me he was marrying his gf of 2 months. My entire childhood was marred by an angry man spoiling every event - birthdays, holidays - everything - we were on egg shells and I remember the happiness when he was away from the house or we could get mum to ourselves.

I have 2DC. They are 12 and 14 and well behaved, kind children. They are occasionally rude, silly etc but generally they are the best you could hope for. I am sick of DH's rages and have, to my shame, started shouting back. I do not want the tense atmosphere in my house that spoiled my childhood. I also do not want my DC to leave home at 18 and never return as there is always a nasty atmosphere.

DH is generally fun and can be very childlike. It's an odd situation and I am now wondering if in fact it is me that makes all these men so angry - by being defiant and expecting them to be pleasant.

Is seems a coincidence that all 3 of these men have done this and I am now thinking it is me, a defiant, tough uncompromising woman, who makes these men so angry.

I just want a peaceful life. I love DH v much. We have been together since we were 18 and are probably co dependant due to our childhoods. These rages are a very small part of him and he is supportive and kind the rest of the time. I know he loves me intensely and would never betray me. I know DC are his no 1 priority. He doesn't drink at all, he spends all his time doing things for our family.

Does anyone have any advice? Is it me? Sorry this is long and muddled. Please be kind. Thank you

OP posts:
midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 11:16

Sorry its so long :(

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/01/2018 11:25

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What needs of yours are still being met here?

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents and yours taught you a lot of damaging lessons along with way too low boundaries. If you think that a good husband simply entails taking the kids to activities, doing some childcare and working full time then your boundaries are way too low. Its no surprise really to see that you went onto choose a man not too dissimilar to your own father (who was also verbally violent); its what you already know. Meeting him at 18 was a way out but the patterns have been repeated. You are indeed also likely to be codependent and that is not a healthy emotional state for you to have either. Its no legacy to leave your children it really is not.

Do read up on codependency and seek proper therapy to undo all the rubbish you have learnt about relationships along the way. Your children will thank you for doing so.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are you both teaching them here about same?. One generation i.e, you people have been profoundly damaged by toxic parenting and now similar is happening again. He is NOT a good H or father to his children if you are being treated like this. Women in poor relationships often write such comments when they can think of nothing at all positive to write about their man. Its not acceptable to them nor should it be acceptable to you on any level.

You did not cause these three men to be themselves angry; their own families of origin did that lot of damage to them, I would argue that such men as well hate women, all of them starting in particular with their own mother. They are each a product of their own dysfunctional and abusive upbringing.

He and you should be apart; you do not work together in a relationship. You likely wanted your mother to leave her H; your children may well feel the same. You cannot run the risk of them having the perception that you are putting this man and his moods before and or above them. You want this type of a relationship for them as adults; hell no you would reply. So stop showing them that this is at all acceptable to you on any level.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/01/2018 11:27

The only level of abuse acceptable in any relationship is NONE. It matters not a jot that he does this occasionally; you all react to it and its not healthy for any of you to be a part of.

NameChange30 · 14/01/2018 11:33

Oh, OP. Of course it’s not you. It’s never been you. It’s always, always been them.

I suggest you ask your husband to go on an anger management course and/or get therapy. It would be a deal breaker for me. No more rages or no more marriage.

You said it yourself: you don’t want to repeat the cycle for your children.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 11:37

I get security, love, he takes care of my physically when my arthritis is bad, he is a good father - puts kids first all the time.

He just seems to have turned into an angry middle aged man. My life has been repeatedly blighted by angry middle aged men. I only set up my business because I had to leave my corporate job due to a bullying boss who raged at me.

OP posts:
midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 11:56

DH has never done this at anyone else. Fil does it at everyone, f at anyone he's close too. DH is known for his calm kind nature and I am known for being defiant (only way I survived my childhood)

I feel v bad today

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Thingsdogetbetter · 14/01/2018 12:02

The only issues you have are your low expectations of men's behaviour (which your childhood trained you to accept), your willingness to accept responsibility for things you have no control over (again trained when you were young) and your obviously huge heart which is desperate to see the good in him regardless of his awful and abusive behaviour.
If he is not willing to address his issues with intensive professional help then you need to change yours. Harden your heart to his bad childhood. If you don't do this you are enabling the cycle to continue through your children.
Wanting to be treated with respect and love ALL the time is not being defiant!! It is a normal expectation as a human being. Expecting to be treated with respect and love ALL the time is not being uncompromising!! Being treated like shite is not a 'compromise' anyone should accept.
Time to bring out that tough woman and make a stand. No more victim mentality from him. No more it's not me, it's work stress forcing me to be this way from him. He takes responsibility for his rages and finds a way to overcome them or he fucks off!
He can be this great father without living with you and subjecting you, and your children, to his rages. He may not be neglecting the children, but he is certainly 'peppering' their childhood with abuse and emotional violence.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 13:09

Thanks everyone. He's in a v bad mood today because he got stuck in traffic on the way to dds sorts event. I feel so anxious.

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WellThisIsShit · 14/01/2018 13:35

Would he go for counselling or CBT therapy to address the trigger points and rages that he’s responsible for.

And he IS responsible for these rages and the hurt he causes during his temper tantrums, even if he’s happy to pretend he is not.

I remember reading somewhere that rage is a combination of powerlessness and fear. So, being very scared and yet not being able to close down or resolve that gut wrenching fear... so you hit out and rage. Basically like an ape beating his chest and throwing shit everywhere trying to scare off a threat that just isn’t going away.

Which means it’s an incredibly unproductive state. Anger can actually be healthy in some ways, but rage, not so much. And rage doesn’t resolve itself except by just getting tired, so all your partner is doing is inflicting his bad feelings and behaviour onto his innocent family, and getting temporary relief until his rage spills over again... and again... and again... because it won’t go away until he actually deals with it.

I have a lot of sympathy for you both. But you must know that you cannot take on his pain and carry his load in life. He has to deal with it. And it’s ok for you to say no, you cannot treat me of our children like this anymore. It’s ok to protect yourself and to protect your children. It’s not being defiant to do that. Please stop using that word about yourself.

Your partner needs to stop the raging. Full stop. And as that means he needs to deal with the reasons that he’s raging in the first place, empty promises of ‘I won’t do it again’ just won’t do. I realise he wants you to pretend that these rages don’t happen/ don’t do harm/ can get him instant forgiveness, but that’s him hiding from his duty as your partner and a father. That’s him pretending to himself. That’s him denying what he’s doing. That’s him denying the hurt he’s inflicting on you and his children.

Don’t agree to this. Don’t let him pretend and deny and minimise. Well, at least, he’s free to do all that to himself but make it clear you won’t join in with him.

I’m afraid that if a man refuses to face what he’s actually afraid of, in favour of hurting his wife and children instead, that makes him a Coward. And a Bully.

If he’s too busy letting himself off the hook and demanding you all join in the ‘let’s pretend daddy isn’t an abuser’ game, then the rages will never stop.

And you will either end up reliving history or leaving him.

That’s the choice he’s forcing you to make by being such a coward.

I can say that from the outside looking in. With me doing everything I am trying to break the cycle my parents left me with... so, I can be angry with this man on your behalf. He’s a coward. Hes a pathetic man child forcing you to be the only adult.

He’s weak and he’s an abuser. He’s too scared to look at his own behaviour and stop himself becoming what he’s always sworn he’d never become... an abusive bully just like his father. It’s so stupid because it’s simply his own weakness that’s got him to this state. And it’s his own weakness that is stopping him acting like a real husband and a real father, and getting help to change his behaviour.

That’s it really. I suggest you sit down and have a calm conversation with him (not using my words!). Tell him that you need to stop pretending that these rages are ok, normal or should be ‘forgotten’. Explain the harm they are doing on you and your children. And say you will support him in getting help to address the underlying reason for his rage. And I do think you need to be firm that unless the rages stop, you and your children cannot continue to live like that... with him. I’m afrajd you do really have to face that option. You cannot live with another abusive man, you really can’t.

And don’t accept any empty waaah I promise I’ll change nonsense. It has to be backed up by action. And he won’t be able to make long term change without addressing the underlying reasons for his rage. As it’s not anything you are doing (no! It’s REALLY NOT, and not anything that’s happening right now in your lives. Close that down. Refuse to engage in the blame game. Nothing you can do or say is to blame for another persons behaviour. You might be a right pain in the arse (!) but then a non abusive person would walk off, or refuse to engage, etc etc. No excuse for raging.

Remember these rages aren’t a natural type of anger or normal argument. Raging is different. So no. This is not about you.

Imagine this is you speaking, Repeat after me Wink...”this is not about me. No one else is responsible for your raging. Not me. Not our children. No one. This is about you. I might be annoying but we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about your rages. It’s coming from inside you and you need to take responsibility for it and get help to change”.

Good luck. I hope he steps up and does get some courage to deal with his issues.

Thingsdogetbetter · 14/01/2018 13:37

He's an immature twat. Do you think the other drivers stuck are raging and making their partners feel anxious? They're not. They get annoyed, deal with it, and get on with their normal lives. They go home, say traffic was shit, kiss their partners and treat them with respect and love.

It's called life! It doesn't always go our way and we deal with it. If he can't, he needs to find a bloody way to. Raging at you/life is not the a normal, adult, mentally healthy way! He obviously didn't learn this as a child. But you can't learn it for him. He has to make a conscience decision to to do something about it.

At the moment he is acting like a toddler who can't understand why he can't have icecream for breakfast and throws a temper tantrum. He needs to grow up and get help.

You can't help him. He doesn't believe that his reactions are wrong. You can't make him see, no matter what ypu say. No matter how often you try to explain how awful it is for you. You can't rationalise his behaviour to him, he has the emotional maturity of a toddler. You can't make him take responsibility for himself.

You need to stop thinking you can fix this and start putting yourself and yoir children first.

NoFanJoe · 14/01/2018 14:22

It's not you, not even the smallest part.

Even in the times when you get things wrong and he rages, it's still not you that's causing the rage. The rage is all within him.

Shouting back is a natural response, but trying to stay calm yourself is more likely to help him see his own rage. Really he needs professional help.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 14:30

Thank you. I feel like he tries Tim she me shout back so we are equally to blame. He is immature.

He got home and has gone outside to do jobs. He's very cross. I knocked a glass of squash over because my hands are shaking so much. I started crying a lot and the kids have made me sit in bed whilst they clear it up. DD said 'ill tell dad I did it, don't worry' this is not normal. I see that now. I can't stop crying. I'm
Sorry

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Cambionome · 14/01/2018 14:31

Good post WellThisIsShit.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 14:31

*tries to make me

OP posts:
Cambionome · 14/01/2018 14:33

This is affecting you and your dc. I really feel for you but you can't continue like this. He needs to seek professional help or go.

Flowers
midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 14:35

@wellthisisshit thank you - I know you are right. I feel very shaken.

No one has ever really loved me or cared about me and it's very scary to realise he doesn't care enough to stop.

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Thingsdogetbetter · 14/01/2018 14:48

Please don't think you aren't loved and cared for. Your children do love you and care for you. Very much! The future is what you need to focus on.

Your daughter's reaction nearly made me cry. No, it's not normal, but it's a credit to you, that despite your upbringing and your partners awful example, you have brought up loving, caring and empathic thoughtful children. You should be proud of yourself and your children.

You have broken your part of the cycle. Now you need to insist he break his. He gets help or he gets out.
I'm not usually a fan of an ultimatum, but i think it is the only way forward here. For all of you, him included.

He gets help and you have a happy family unit with him or he refuses and you have a happy family unit without him.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 14:48

I can't imply that I am blameless in any of the problems. I work very long hours, I am very determined and focused (have had to be) and dh says I make him feel worthless and useless. I have always earned more, I make all the decisions (because he won't but it still makes him feel upset that I chose the sofa or whatever), the kids always want to be with me and they are more attentive to me and behave better for me. I am sometimes very opnionated and that is annoying as he prefers chit chat or small talk to a discussion about politics or whatever. I know I am annoying. But I am very tolerant and my business is in a field that demands a lot of patience, tolerance and understanding so I know I am not a monster.

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midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 14:52

I think it is difficult because I have been very weak. I have made the ultimatum before but rolled over and let it go. I have done that at least 3 times in last 2 years. I am weak. I just want to enjoŷ what I have worked so fucking hard for.

When we we re 18 we have to live in a mouse infested beds it with mould on the walls, I have worked so hard to be here - a homeowner, my own business, dc doing so well at school and sport, why can't he let me enjoy it.

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Nanny0gg · 14/01/2018 15:52

Because he's jealous?

Because you've overcome your childhood and he hasn't been able to?

He gets counselling or he goes.

NameChange30 · 14/01/2018 16:14

OK. In my first post I suggested that he gets anger management help and/or therapy, but after reading your subsequent posts, I would like to change my advice.

He rages at you but not other people. That’s emotional abuse, not an anger issue.

He blames you for his behaviour, his rages and his feelings of inadequacy. That’s unfair and it’s emotional abuse.

You are afraid of him. Put bluntly, you’re an anxious, tearful wreck. He hasn’t done that to you. And your children have noticed. That’s emotional abuse.

You’ve already given him ultimatums. It’s too late for ultimatums now. I think you need to LTB. You might not feel ready and you might need support first but I think you should work towards it. For your children if not for yourself.

Please read this:
liveboldandbloom.com/11/relationships/signs-of-emotional-abuse

And get some real life support, preferably counselling but at the very least talk to a wise friend.

NameChange30 · 14/01/2018 16:15

PS You are not annoying and you are not weak. If he has made you believe those things, this relationship is not healthy, and his “love” is not a healthy love.
Flowers

NameChange30 · 14/01/2018 16:16

GAH. Damn autocorrect.

He has done that to you.

midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 16:22

Thanks everyone. I have taken time to speak to each of the dc this aft. They have told me that they are very scared of him when he shouts. I asked if I made them feel scared and they said they were scared when I was cross but scared I would cry a lot or hurt myself (I have a bad habit of knocking stuff over/tripping/stubbing my toe etc when I am sad or angry)

I know you are right. He has admired he is jealous of me before. I can't cope without him thou, he's the only person who's ever been there for me, I am strong and capable but also very weak if you know what I mean. I'm sorry I am so weak. At work I have this big business and staff and manage well, but at home I struggle. I just want to enjoy what I've worked so hard for. DC deserve to feel relaxed.

Thank you

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midlifemeltdown · 14/01/2018 16:23

*admitted

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