Husband rages - man tantrum or am I impossible?

[midlifemeltdown]

I am feeling low today and hoping MN can help me understand something.

Background - Myself and DH both had appalling childhoods - neglect peppered with abuse. DV and too many children/chaotic too young parents in my house, alcoholism and neglect in his.

DH is a good husband and father - takes on the bulk of child care and ferries kids to all their activities etc. Also works full time. Over the last few years he has started to have 'rages' that are impossible to stop. They are based around his 'life being shit' people 'making him late' or 'wasting his money/time' etc. They are fairly short lived and usually last as long as the job or whatever he is doing - he then expects us to all 'forget it' because 'he was stressed'.

FIL has always had these rages and been physically abusive. We are NC with them after he pushed me over for being 'in his way' when I was 8 months pregnant.

My F has also always had rages - he once attacked me in a shopping centre because I did not congratulate him warmly enough when he told me he was marrying his gf of 2 months. My entire childhood was marred by an angry man spoiling every event - birthdays, holidays - everything - we were on egg shells and I remember the happiness when he was away from the house or we could get mum to ourselves.

I have 2DC. They are 12 and 14 and well behaved, kind children. They are occasionally rude, silly etc but generally they are the best you could hope for. I am sick of DH's rages and have, to my shame, started shouting back. I do not want the tense atmosphere in my house that spoiled my childhood. I also do not want my DC to leave home at 18 and never return as there is always a nasty atmosphere.

DH is generally fun and can be very childlike. It's an odd situation and I am now wondering if in fact it is me that makes all these men so angry - by being defiant and expecting them to be pleasant.

Is seems a coincidence that all 3 of these men have done this and I am now thinking it is me, a defiant, tough uncompromising woman, who makes these men so angry.

I just want a peaceful life. I love DH v much. We have been together since we were 18 and are probably co dependant due to our childhoods. These rages are a very small part of him and he is supportive and kind the rest of the time. I know he loves me intensely and would never betray me. I know DC are his no 1 priority. He doesn't drink at all, he spends all his time doing things for our family.

Does anyone have any advice? Is it me? Sorry this is long and muddled. Please be kind. Thank you

Sorry op, but you have your answer there. Your dc are very scared of him when he shouts, and they are scared for you. You need to take responsibility here and ask him to get proper professional help or move out.
This won't get better on it's own, and will almost certainly get worse.

and I am now wondering if in fact it is me that makes all these men so angry

No no no no no. I cannot emphasise that enough!! IT IS NOT YOU.

My father was violent, my ex partner, other men in my life have been violent. It was not me. It is not you.

I really hope this is the start of your journey to working out how to make your life happier and your children's

It's very lonely for me. I pretty much brought myself up, I am the capable competent one amongst my siblings so they all come to me for support. DH has no friends of his own, no family. He's very kind and loving to my friends and family and I can't talk to them about this.

The business I have has become highly successful by accident, verging on famous. I was interviewed about it on the radio a few weeks ago and I think that has sparked this bout Id 'frustration' in him.

He is an amazingly talented artist and won awards in his 20s but has consistently refused to use his talents and preferred to have more basic admin jobs and focus on dc.

My work also invokes intense gratitude in my clients due to the nature of it (its similar to for example teaching an adult to read or overcome a stammer). I have been hiding notes/presents etc recently. I didn't realise. My entire job is based around teaching people to relax and cope and here I am, a wreck.

Sorry. I'm just screaming at lovely woman on mn because I can't save my DH. I feel so bad. I'm sorry

Thank you so much for being here today.

I think you have to tell him how his rages make you and the children feel. Tell him it scares them. And that you're ready to walk to protect them. That it's up to him. He can get help to manage his stress and rage or he can lose his family.

No you cannot save ypur dh.
But you can save you.
You can save your dc.

Your dh can save himself if he chooses too.

Who are you going to save?
Ate you going to continue he to let dh rule and control how everyone feels ?

Oh lovely 💐. It’s really, really, not you.

Your children are scared OF him, they are scared FOR you, there’s a big dfference. You have done SO well to get where you are now, from the childhood you had. What you have to do now will be very hard, but you have to do it. You tell your DH that you know he had a dreadful childhood and poor role models & appreciate that it might be difficult for him that you earn the majority of the money, but that you appreciate him doing the majority of the childcare etc. Explain to him, that him buying into that sexist crap is turning him into his father and you will NOT tolerate that, not fir yourself and certainly not for your kids.

Tell him he has one last chance to get help and behave well ALL the time, not just when things are perfect. Tell him you will NOT allow him to recreate his childhood for his children.

Tell him you love him & you want him, but he needs help and if he wont get it, you have NO CHOICE but go and take the children with you. Mean it. You have to, for your kids sake, if not your own. Look at your DD, prepared to lie for you, take the blame for spilt juice because she knows how your DH will react towards you. Your children are living with a man they’re scared of...you know that’s not right.

Find your Big Girl Pants, put them on, pull them up, then deal with him. Maybe not tonight when he’s already in a vile mood, but certainly in the next day or so.

You have to do this FOR YOUR CHILDREN. You ARE strong, you CAN cope without him, you WILL get through this.

Oh poor you, you sound so sad

I think your plea is really important actually... why can’t he just let you enjoy life now you’ve sweated so hard to make it good?

I suspect the answer is that he doesn’t know how to exist in a good life so he’s intent on destroying it, and you, until it’s the crap life he’s familiar with.

It sounds crazy but sadly it is the kind of thing that a damaged person could do in a self-destructive mode. Especially if he’s not overcome his past or done any healing in the same way you have.

Just thinking aloud, and not pushing you to do anything today, but what would happen to your life if he was no longer in it? Practically I mean?

Emotionally, I can see you’re very much attached to him, and you’ve grown together over the years. However, at some point it seems he stopped growing and adding positively?

I wonder how much you’re relying on the reality of the man that’s before you, and how much are you attached to the dream of who he used to be, or who you hoped he would be?

I would agree he needs CBT or some other form of help. I have a family member who's partner was similar, and got help to address it and is very different now. I would also agree you need to give him an ultimatum that he seeks help, or goes. Good luck, and be kind to yourself.

You have to put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others, in this case your children. They need you far more than you need your so called husband. You cannot rescue and or be a saviour. You are too close to the situation to be of any real use to him, not that he wants your support in any case.

Your own childhood was dysfunctional and with this individual you have simply repeated what you were yourself taught about relationships. Your children cannot and must not learn the same sort of destructive stuff you were imparted.

As a child of an abusive father, I can relate.
I am happiest without a man in my life-even a calm and good one.
It's not you, honey. It's how these men deal with their rage.
Your husband needs anger management classes. Maybe, you need them too.

He's apologising now. He's so sorry, didn't mean it, must deal with things better. I feel so tired. He's been horrible and we've all been on eggshells all day. Why didn't we just go out? I dont know what the mater with me. I need to listen to you all, I know. I will.

You sounds worn down, OP.

You're children are living in a household that has domestic abuse present regularly, you are harming them by exposing them to this. Witnessing Domestic abuse, feeling powerless, seeing your Mum lose it emotionally in tears and tripping over...very scary and incredibly damaging. They will grow up feeling powerless, scared and confused and the cycle will continue, they will think this is normal.
Children should not be witnessing these rages and your reaction to them either. It just shouldn't be present in their lives.
Please stop being selfish and take your children away from this abusive household and I am sure you won't feel so weak when you're not expending so much emotional energy on being anxious and treading on eggshells around this man's moods, rages and outbursts.
He hasn't just become a grump middle aged man, he has used rage as an outlet for his intolerable feelings, it felt good to him, it became addictive to him to get his relief by raging and taking it out on you, and you've shown him you won't leave even if he behaves like this so he feels pretty safe to continue getting his rage fix and using you for this.
Your poor children.
Please leave him and enjoy everything you've built in a calm household away from this abusive man with your children, they need to see a strong mother who respects herself and protects them from having to live with seeing and experiencing this kind of abuse.
Look up Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE score) and how it directly affects life span and chance of developing mental health problems/addictions/getting into abusive relatonships/being an abuser. You have a high ACE score, which is why you are staying with someone who's abusive, as does your husband which is why he's being abusive. Look it up and calculate your children's ACE scores. Now think whether you being with someone for the sake of not being alone is worth your child having mental health issues, addiction issues, shortened life span, choosing an abusive partner, being abusive themselves or having suicide attempts ?
Your choice. Their lives. I hope you make the right decision as no-one else is going to. Unless someone hears the shouting and reports to SS. Then you will have a lot of explaining to do as to why you haven't left him already. If you stay with an abusive man and put him and your relationship above your children, then SS will take them away to a home where they'll be safe and their needs put first.

OP please don't let that last poster's black and white approach to abuse put you off mn. The rest of us know you aren't selfish. We know you are doing your best in an extremely complex and emotional situation. You have been very brave to reach out here for support and we'd like to think that we can continue to support you with empathy and awareness of the difficulties you face.

Thanks everyone. Everything is calm and tranquil here. He's sorry and I'm being calm and non committal - just saying that it was scary for me and the kids and I felt he was trying to provoke me. He's admitted that and says he's ashamed and will get help. I've heard it all before so time will tell. He's not a bad person - his behaviour is appalling sometimes but he had stints of his childhood in care and things are still difficult. He isn't violent and the kids love him and are very affectionate with him, they aren't scared of him in general - he's their main carer and very kind.

It's complicated and difficult but I am going to re read all the posts tomorrow and think it thru again. Thanks

But that’s just the thing OP. Your husband IS violent. Not physically, but verbally and emotional his outbursts and moods sound very aggressive and terrifying.
I also grew up with a father who had an awful temper. Not to the same extend as your husband, by the sounds of it, but it has still had a very bad impact on me and on how I deal with my own strong emotions as an adult.
Talulah was harsh but she is not wrong that you are putting yourself before your children here and that choosing to stay with your husband will definitely have an adverse effect on them and potentially cause life-long damage.
I wish you luck for getting the strength to leave.

I too have queried whether it is me that has caused people to be abusive. It isn't my fault and it isn't yours either.

I agree with everyone else that your husband is abusive. However I disagree that he needshelp. Abusers choose to abuse. It's a choice. Google the abuse cycle and if you can, download lundy bancrofts Why does he do that. He, and many other abuse experts agree that abusers are rarely rehabilitated. If they do stop its because they've been forced to.

Abusers don't need help, they need severe consequences.

You need to rethink the calm and non commital bit OP. I know you want things to return to normal ASAP but there is not consequences for him if you revert immediately.

You need to rethink the calm and non commital bit OP. I know you want things to return to normal ASAP but there is not consequences for him if you revert immediately.

I have nothing else to add except he sounds exactly the same as my XH who was basically a child bullied by his father who went on to become an bully himself.

His sister married someone exactly like the men you describe, a beautiful vivacious woman who threw her life away on a man who didn’t deserve her and fucked her kids up along the way (amazing intelligent children who 1. failed the 11+ when odds-on to pass and 2. the other is on the brink of being suspended for you guessed it violence).

And yes I do blame her as she had a massive support network, loads of folk ready to help out and an actual house to go to should she have left her DH. She chose not to. I suspect it’s because her self esteem was in the toilet after never ever seeing what a relationship should be like.

I blame my XHs and XSILs ills - all of them - on their DF. Whilst adults mostly know how to “adult”, childhood scars run deep. It’s no fun being with a highly strung, skittish spouse prone to explosive anger with no children. I can imagine it feeling like a life sentence with two.

I think you know very well what you have to do and from one person who’s self esteem rocketed after I left XH I’d say getting away may be the best thing you do with your life to date.

Thanks everyone - lots of food for thought. I really appreciate it.

sounds like a decent bloke coming to bits because of a mass of unresolved trauma and grief from his childhood. It's a damn shame but he can't be inflicting his angst on you and your children to this degree. Have to think that serious therapy is the only way forward - I'd be threatening to leave if he doesn't get something booked and has attended, if it doesn't happen within pretty prompt time I'd be leaving till he has started the work I guess

I am sorry to say, that despite all your excuses about his childhood, he is replicating an abusive childhood for his children and you are enabling him.

You and they should not be scared of him. All the pain, suffering and neglect should be in your pasts. He knows how terrible it was to live with a volatile and abusive man and yet he does this to you and your children, and you let him.

I don't think you should leave him, but sorry, you are going to need to stop shaking and shivering whilst he abuses you and your family with his vile tempers and rantings. Sorry isn't enough unless it is backed up by actions. He does need counselling, only you know whether he would ever go. CBT might help him deal differently with his anger? Does he get angry at work? If not, he is choosing to inflict his vile tantrums on you and your kids.

You need to step up, if your children and their emotional health means anything to you, to help him understand that they will remember their chilhood with unhappiness, just as you both remember yours. He needs to accept this behaviour is no more acceptable than shitting or pissing on the kitchcn table because he got caught in traffic. What would you do if that was his way of dealing with it? Do the same with the tantrums.

I would challenge every single tantrum, agree with him now that this is what you both want and have an agreed stock phrase that you say at this time. ' i am sorry to hear you have been stuck in traffic. Why don't you make us a cup of tea so we can see what is on TV tonight' that's your code to him that his behaviour has become unacceptable and needs to stop. If it doesn't work, you really do have a problem because his need to rant trumps you and your children's need to be safe. Are you prepared to life with a man who feels like this?

I think you have both done well considering the start you had in life, but it won't end well unless you act to deal with this cancer at the heart of your family. You are now both in a position to give yourselves and your children the security that was missjng from your early lives.

Finally, perhaps think about why you have gone NC with FIL and how this could be applied to your husband's behaviour.