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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Boss’s opinion- trigger warning

94 replies

RelapsedChocoholic · 24/12/2017 19:37

Hi

Not posted before but hoping someone can help me with the logistics of this (and tell me I’m not over reacting...)

I started a new job at the beginning of sept, probation runs till Feb (6months). I am the only woman in a dept of 30+

After a Christmas event, in a random discussion, my line manager told me he believes there is a sliding scale of rape, and essentially rape by someone you know is ‘better’ than someone you don’t. (At the risk of being outed he likened it to a sliding scale of assault: rape by someone you know = a slap, rape by someone you don’t know = being stabbed)

I find this massively offensive, and argued with him before eventually just leaving the event.
I have not seen him since and am dreading returning to work in January.
A (male) colleague who overheard the converstation asked me the day after if I would like to talk about it, I declined.

I absolutely cannot work for this person, and am looking to leave - but it will damage my cv, having only been there a short amount of time, and frustrates me that someone actually thinks like this in this day and age
(Another of my male colleagues said to me before this that I must think the Harvey Weinstein case has changed things, I said I’ll wait to see but I doubt it... and feel like it’s just been proved that nothing ever changes)

Sorry this is a rant now, but am so fed up of the misogynistic rubbish we have to deal with every day...

Im not over reacting am I? I can’t work for this man, who thinks I should feel lucky if a colleague rapes me over a stranger can I?!
How do I explain leaving after such a short time, and how do I manage to work for this man until I find a new job (and potentially have to pass probation??!)

OP posts:
Offred · 24/12/2017 23:04

Maybe - I don’t think you are at all worried that your workmates will be forcing you to not have an abortion. OP feels directly threatened by the threat of being raped or abused by this man because of his unnecessary and unsolicited rape apology comments.

Offred · 24/12/2017 23:06

It’s not about people having a difference of opinion. The reason the OP feels she needs to leave her job is because she is afraid of what this man might do to her.

JaffaCakes4TeaNow · 24/12/2017 23:07

Your manager has some opinions that you don’t like. What’s the problem? You are not being paid to share his opinions, you and he are both being paid to do a job. Get on with it.

And you must know that his opinion that there are grades of this crime (however unlovely and however crudely expressed by him) are widely held and are part of the rather complex and carefully graded basis of sentencing for the crime in question. Some people convicted of this crime get 4 years or so, some get eight, twelve or twenty or life.

What’s your problem ? You don’t have to agree with him, you just have to work with him.

Offred · 24/12/2017 23:08

And this is the definition of sexual harassment;

Sexual harassment is unwanted behaviour of a sexual nature which:

violates your dignity
makes you feel intimidated, degraded or humiliated
creates a hostile or offensive environment

PersianCatLady · 24/12/2017 23:08

Offered
As much as some people would like this to be SH, it really isn't. If it happened on a regular basis then maybe it could be SH BUT NOT JUST ONCE.

Maybe83 · 24/12/2017 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Offred · 24/12/2017 23:11

And no jaffa - read the sentencing guidelines here that is not how sentencing is considered.

Original poster
RelapsedChocoholic · 24/12/2017 23:12

Thank you Ofred, I’m not sure what class it as sexual harassment as it was meant as an opinion. I believe it is his is general opionion particularly as he went in to repeat it to
Male colleagues

Thank you RestingGrinchFace- your response has given me some things to think about- I probably am a spoilt brat Smile but I’m not sure I can separate the personal from the professional in this case.

I’m off to bed, thank you everyone who has relied- it’s really appreciated as I have no one to talk to about this in person over the next few days. I hope you all have a good Christmas break

OP posts:
PersianCatLady · 24/12/2017 23:12

Offered
I am not going to argue my point with you when I have spent time preparing people for ETs and I know that in real life (not in theory) SH claims fail on a lot more than what has happened here.

PersianCatLady · 24/12/2017 23:16

Relapsed
If he says anything again or does anything, start keeping a log of date and time, words said and other people who heard it.

Other than that I would avoid him as much as possible and don't talk to him about anything other than work. Don't let him go off at a tangent about anything. If he does walk away and tell him that you are not prepared to listen. Then write it in your log.

Good luck and try not to worry about it over Christmas.

Offred · 24/12/2017 23:16

It is one incident of sexual harassment. If the manager reacted to her offence by providing negative feedback re her probation that would be another.

I am advising the op to complain to HR.

Original poster
RelapsedChocoholic · 24/12/2017 23:16

Jaffacakes/ I have not said at any point I am not doing my job. My problem is that I need to continue working with someone whose views I find has holy offensive, as is my right, and the have asked advise on how to do this
Please read my responses before posting.

OP posts:
Offred · 24/12/2017 23:17

At no point have I advised the OP to take it to ET. Simply to report this one incident to HR...

HTH Hmm

mullmepopcorn · 24/12/2017 23:35

They are offensive opinions, however it doesn't sound as though they were aimed at you or in a threatening way. The work world is full of sexist, misogynistic, racist, bigots. You can only penalise their behaviour, not their opinions.

I would avoid the subject, and prepare some responses in case it comes up again: rape by someone you know is a huge abuse of trust, so equally traumatic; violent rape is two crimes, the rape is not in itself worse.

I can't talk to you about this, as I find your views deeply distressing.

Practise the responses, and feel like you are taking on the bigoted world.

HipNewName · 25/12/2017 00:24

I suggest reporting it to HR to create a paper trail that he was a problem.

No, they are not going to fire him over it. They might talk to him, make him go to a training, or something like that.

But I see what he did as very threatening. He told a woman who has less power than him that he thinks that raping some one he knows isn't a big deal. I see him as a scary person. I would want to start creating a paper trail just in case he actually is a scary crazy person, and more things happen later.

You could even tell HR that you don't wish any action to be taken, other than documenting this in a file just in case something more happens later.

This was sexual harassment, and it was a threat.

Northernparent68 · 25/12/2017 00:28

What will you say to HR, that you can’t cope with people disagreeing with you ?

HipNewName · 25/12/2017 01:16

Northernparent, there's a big difference between two people having a difference of opinion, and a man in power telling a woman subordinate that rape isn't that big of a deal.

Karigan1 · 25/12/2017 01:23

Well Rape is rape yes BUT there is a sliding scale of rape. It’s how it’s sentenced. There’s rape with violence, rape of vulnerable, rape by stranger or rape due to absence of consent without aggressive force. That’s not my view it’s the actual legal stance and if you don’t believe me then go google the sentencing guidelines counsel. I seriously doubt he was suggesting it wasn’t rape to be raped by someone youknow. If he is then that’s seriously concerning but if want he means is there’s a difference in seriousness between differrnt mo’s of rape then there actually is.

Karigan1 · 25/12/2017 01:26

Ps there is actually a sliding scale for seriousness of assaults too.

Jobjobjob · 25/12/2017 03:12

I've literally just left a job I'd been in for 3.5 months. When asked at interview why I'd left, I gave my very valid reasons and everyone that interviewed me congratulated me on my decisions.

I was offered four positions, this won't damage your CV.

TammySwansonTwo · 25/12/2017 03:27

The reason I couldn't work for this person, especially in an otherwise all male team, is that if you have concerns about the way colleagues are treating you, if you're sexually harrassed or sexually assaulted by a colleague, you have pretty much zero chance of having his support or assistance. That's a massive concern. It could also absolutely be seen as threatening depending on the context of the conversation and his tone.

BattleCunt · 25/12/2017 04:13

Ohhh my god that is disgusting. I would have walked out by now, but that's just me because if I didn't, I'd probably lamp the fucker. What an absolutely vile man.

Havingahorridtime · 25/12/2017 04:37

Plenty of people work in jobs where they have to work with people who have different moral opinions and ethics to themselves, sometimes they are sickened by the behaviour and opinions of others but they still have to do their job (or find alternative employment). The boss's opinions are really shitty but I personally would just tell him that I don't agree with him and find his opinions offensive and I would move on mentally or seek alternative employment,

VivaLeBeaver · 25/12/2017 06:50

Was he saying that being raped by someone you know is ok, or was he saying that it’s still bad but not as bad as being raped by a stranger?

Because if it’s the latter then I think a lot of people would agree with him. I’ve been raped by someone I know and while it was awful I can only think tha being raped by a stranger would be worse. I think partly the fear aspect.....I was never scared for my life, but if someone grabbed me while I was walking home in the dark I’d be terrified the whole time that they’d kill me. Plus my rape wasn’t violent but most stranger rapes are.

SandyY2K · 25/12/2017 07:03

When I said go to HR, it's not about him being sacked...that wouldn't happen...it's just to work elsewhere in the company if possible.

As a HR professional... if an employee requested a move based on that...and thete was any chance of working under a different manager...we'd move her.

I'm quite thick skinned because I've heard do much over the years... in terms of opinions.

I wouldn't leave without a job to go to though. I also don't feel I have to share the reason I left to future employers either.

Employers should be asking questions that relate to job suitability. If you're a good candidate...or the best on the day you'll get the job.