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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Thinking of leaving, but I'm nervous

74 replies

Lcar · 19/11/2017 02:47

My husband and I have been together for 22 years, married for 20. We have 4 children from 13-20, two are at university doing very well for themselves.
I'm not sure if I still love my husband. I certainly used to. I sometimes think about how I would feel if he were with someone else, and the over-riding emotion is sadness for what could have been. But the reality is that we are becoming increasingly distant, and I constantly have to fight the feelings of low self esteem and lack of confidence which he piles on me.
We've been trying really hard recently, sharing lifts to work and talking and laughing a lot more, but the veneer is very fragile - we've spent a lot of this evening arguing.
We have just moved house (renting) for the third time in 3 years, and I'm becoming more and more aware that each time we move, I'm trying somehow to please him, to make him happier and make my life a little easier. This house was (once again) his choice - it's a nice house, but it wouldn't have been my first choice as it is too far away from our children's school, and they can't spend time with friends. But I went along with it, as he was so adamant he loved it here.
He can be a charming man, but he is also incredibly childish and selfish (and I think becoming more so), and doesn't communicate very well. I think probably he's just inconsiderate and doesn't try. Every morning I make us a cup of tea each and butter 4 slices of toast for us. Yesterday he was down before me, and two of the slices of toast - mine - were cold and unbuttered. It's a small thing, but it's selfish and inconsiderate. I commented on it, and he told me that I'm pathetic. I actually just felt a bit sad.
For 22 years I have asked him to have the courtesy to let me know if he is going out, so that I at least know whether he is in the house or not, but he still goes out without telling me.
He expects the children to wait on him and obey his orders immediately like little soldiers, but when my 13 year old daughter asked him to pass her a spoon from the cutlery drawer which he was standing by the other day, he refused and told her to get it herself - and that is not an isolated incident.
I'm trying to make sure the children learn courtesy and consideration to others, and I've always brought them up to be co-operative and help each other out - but it's a bit of a one-sided battle.
I think what I'm saying is that our values don't match.
He does not like people (he has very few friends) and does not enjoy socialising - but I do. I used to make the effort to invite friends round and have parties, but I no longer bother - it's not worth it.
He also makes my life fairly miserable if I spend time out when he's at home, or meet my friends. He tells me I'm welcome to go and won't actually stop me, but he is so moody and unpleasant when I get home, it's not worth it.
The last time we met with some of my best old, long-standing friends from university, about 6 months ago, it ended with my husband taking exception to a point of view of my friend's husband during a perfectly normal discussion, and pushing him off a chair and slamming his head against the wall. This was in front of my friend's 6 year old son. I'm obviously not in a hurry to invite friends round again - though I would love to.
I'm not a stupid person - I have degrees in English and Law, and work in a fairly senior communications job. But he constantly brings me down, tells me I'm useless and stupid and that he can't trust me even to contact the letting agents to get something fixed 'in case I cock it up'. I feel that I'm constantly fighting not just my own issues and normal worries, but also the feeling of being useless and stupid. I do get confused, because he tells me it's all in my head, and when he gets angry with me (which is frequent) I constantly question what I could and should have said or done differently.
I am not particularly afraid that he would be violent, but he does have a rather scary aggressive streak, which comes out as shouting, slamming doors and emotional punishment. Alcohol is definitely a catalyst, and I have asked him to drink less (as have the children). However I did come home one day to my then 11year old son dragging me from the car saying dad was going to hit my then 16 year old daughter. He was standing over her holding both of her wrists in one hand when I ran in, and she was crying uncontrollably, but he didn't actually hit her. I threw him out at the time, but let him come back. Maybe I was wrong to have him back then.
I used to be a natural organiser, the mum who takes on the role of chair in the local NCT, and runs the toddler group. I managed my son's sports team, organising matches up and down the country, and I absolutely loved it and made friends everywhere we went. But we gave up as he said he hated the other parents, and he tells me I'm bossy and a control freak and that I have OCD, so I have consciously tried to reduce my tendency to organise.
If I'm honest with myself, I feel crushed. I have trouble making decisions as I am constantly second-guessing what he would want me to do, in case I get it wrong. I don't really know who I am any more. I feel that I no longer have my own identity - if I do stand up for myself, he tells me I am disrespecting him and gives me the silent treatment for hours or days.
When I tell him how I feel, he says 'so it's my fault again, I knew it'. And I end up apologising, and feeling guilty for being so unfair. Except that I don't think I am being unfair - I'm perfectly willing to take half the blame, but after all I'm only reacting to his behaviour, and I'm pretty certain it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
But he's not all bad, he can be very funny and very good company, and has in the past been very supportive - I think probably I bring out the worst in him. I constantly ask myself, is that my fault, or just a symptom of us no longer being right together?

My children support me in leaving - they are old enough to see the problems.
I have a full time job, but we live literally hand to mouth. I have less than £50 to my name in my bank right now, and all my pay goes almost instantly on bills.
I did have independent savings, left to me when my mum died a few years ago, and I planned to buy a small house in my own name and rent it out as a separate income for us both to live on, but he was so angry when I mentioned that, that I never mentioned it again, and instead I paid the rent and bills from my inheritance and gradually it was squandered. I have to take the blame for not standing up for my rights there, and for going for the 'easy life' option, but there it is - it's gone and I have nothing of any worth.
I think that enough is enough, that it's time I recognise that I'm not perfect but I'm also not stupid or useless and that I don't deserve to be put down constantly, that I still have a life ahead of me, that my younger children and I will be ok on our own and that we can re-claim our social lives and happiness - and that he also isn't a bad person, but we just aren't making each other happy.
But of course I'm worried - am I doing the right thing, should I keep trying, will I be ok on my own - is he right and am I actually useless like he tells me I am?
I have a job. I have friends who are a bit exasperated with me for moaning but doing nothing about it, but I know they love me and I know they will support me.
I don't have family - my parents are both dead, and I have not spoken to my sister for nearly a year (as my husband does not like her - mmm, bit of a pattern going on here) - but I have been secretly emailing her now and then, and I think she would support me if she could.
I have two beloved and very sensible children who are doing their best at university and need my support.
And two younger children with their own needs.
In an ideal world, I would move out tomorrow into a privately rented house close to my children's school, where they can see their friends when they want, and I may still have some friends from the old sociable days if I work very hard to rebuild a network - and after all I'm quite good at that as it is my profession. I would move to a very small house (as it's a nice area but unfortunately a bit pricy), and I may well end up sleeping on the sofa, but I can live with that. I would try to get some housing benefit (but my earnings might put me just over the threshold). I would definitely sort out single person council tax. I would find out if I'm eligible for any other benefits.
I would change job to somewhere closer to home, so I can support my children more (at the moment it's a 50 minute motorway commute morning and night). I would keep communications very much open with my husband, and encourage the children to spend equal time with him. And when they are with him, I would start running again (I used to run 10k races, but gave up as it meant too much time out training and not cooking), and study for the postgrad degree I've been meaning to do for years, and apologise to my friends and hope they will still let me tag along.
I think I know what is the right thing to do, and putting some of it in writing makes it so obvious, but yes, I'm afraid.
Thanks for reading, I would appreciate advice, support and positive suggestions

OP posts:
DiscoDeviant · 19/11/2017 02:56

You sound like you're at the end of your tether. For good reason. I know how hard it is to finally make the decision.

I split with my exH of 20 years 18 months ago. It took me a long time to finally leave. He cheated on me constantly. Controlled all the money. We never had sex. Never even talked really for the last two years.

I did it though and I'm so much happier now. I worried about money and the effect on the children but things have a way of working out.

mumisnotmyname · 19/11/2017 03:10

It sounds like you have done a lot of thinking over a period of time and drawn together a plan for moving forward with your life. You have a lot of strengths that you have identified. I read other threads over time on mumsnet of other women who have made these changes and say however hard it is their lives are better.

AlternativeTentacle · 19/11/2017 03:41

gosh, yes move out. and divorce him. life is too short.,

merrykate · 19/11/2017 04:09

It sounds like you are starting to realise how controlling and emotionally abusive he is. Yours and your children's lives could be so much better. Good luck x

Pajamagirl · 19/11/2017 04:51

You know you need to leave
You know he is controlling , stopping you seeing friends , belittles you , tries to make you feel incompetent which you are abviously not , makes you feel you are on egg shells , trying to please him ( it will never be enough ) he is violent tendancies which will escalate
You have a good job , I bet your friends would rally once you are single ,they can probably see what a bastard he is , you have a plan ,
Just do it
Hugs

bastardkitty · 19/11/2017 05:04

You've done your time. It's time to move on and live a more fulfilled life. Don't try to be too fair to him. He doesn't sound like he deserves to have the children 50/50 and they need to be protected from him, especially when he really starts feeling sorry for himself. You sound so calm and capable. You will fly when you are not being ground down.

WindowWiper · 19/11/2017 05:35

Yes, do it! I was in a similar situation to yours - the moving house

in hopes it would make him happy, the tip toeing around his
moods was me too.
But I stayed too long - my health collapsed with the
years and years of stress. I divorced him eventually but I regret not
doing it many years ago.
Make a happy life for yourself, you know it’s the sensible thing to do OP.

Lcar · 19/11/2017 08:43

Thank you so much for your support. I really appreciate it.
So many people (not here) have told me to 'hang on in there, it's much harder on your own and you should stay together if you possibly can' that I have hesitated over and over - but I actually don't believe that any more.
If anyone has any suggestions for help and support for someone in my position I'd be very grateful - thank you x

OP posts:
PurpleWithRed · 19/11/2017 08:56

He is an abusive, selfish bully. Your children support you in leaving. You have a good income and can support yourself. You have thought through the options and have a viable plan for living in the future and taking care of your children.

So the only thing stopping you seem to be
A) your fear that things will be harder alone
B) his likely nasty, aggressive, shouty response.

Literally thousands of us on here can attest from our own experience that you will be happier if you leave him. Much happier. You;ve already imagined what it will be like, and we can tell you - it will be fantastic.

Yes he will be nasty and shouty, and he may also be weepy and full of emotional blackmail, and difficult and obstructive. But only for a very short time compared to the blissful him-free future. It’s a bit like childbirth, painful and messy and not very dignified, but over quickly and well worth it in the long run.

So do your research, make a plan, find somewhere to rent and go for it. You have everything to gain, including the respect and gratitude of your children.

olympicsrock · 19/11/2017 09:44

Oh god - this was how my father behaved towards my mother. Finally they split up after his affairs and she has rebuilt her life - lovely friends rallied round her and her life is so much happier . So many people said later that they had not wanted to socialise with my parents because of my father. Please do it and do not spend the rest of your life being unhappy. He will be a complete shit when you say you are leaving because he will have no one to bully and do his washing and cooking but you must put yourself and children first

Justbookedasummmerholiday · 19/11/2017 09:50

When do you need us round to help you pack?.
Over 20 years of this? If you had killed him you would have been free to start your life over years ago!!
Do it now while you still have some fight left..
Flowers

category12 · 19/11/2017 09:54

Please leave.

category12 · 19/11/2017 09:54

Please leave.

AlternativeTentacle · 19/11/2017 09:59

Use some money to put a deposit down on a place.

Stash the important paperwork, accounts, shared investments if you have any etc. Passports, birth certs etc - with a trusted friend.

Does he go to work? If so, get the removals people round on a work day, put a yellow sticker on everything you want them to take or take them through room by room and let them pack and ship out.

Clear out whilst the kids are at school, and go pick them up later and take them round to the new house whilst the movers are unpacking. If you took something that he later needs, he can come and get it. Do it on a Friday so that the kids have the weekend to unpack into their new rooms. If it takes longer to pack, stay at a hotel with the kids for one night and let the removals people unload the following day.

Then file for divorce and you are clear.

BitOutOfPractice · 19/11/2017 10:19

Please don’t stay married to this emotionally abusive bully.

It is not harder to be alone than it is to be in an unhappy and abusive relationship. I can 100% promise you that, especially as you kids aren’t little and you have a decent job. It’s just not harder. You will feel freedom and happiness that you had forgotten existed.

You sound fabulous btw. I bet your old friends will welcome you back with open arms as they have secretly been loathing him for years.

Hermonie2016 · 19/11/2017 12:03

It's definitely not harder on your own, if you have lived with a selfish bully.

What is holding you back? Even if you moved out it doesn't mean you have to divorce straight away.

It won't get better on itself own, he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour but he's unlikely to do that.

Lcar · 22/11/2017 17:34

Thank you all. I am so very grateful for your lovely, empowering comments. You've given me so much more confidence in myself.
I went to see a house yesterday for my children and I - it was nice, and I'm taking the children back to see it tomorrow.
So, this morning I decided to play fair, and told him that I thought we should separate (I've already moved the passports and birth certificates - thank you for that excellent advice which I would not even have thought of).
Within half an hour he was hyperventilating, and clutching his chest. I took him to the local hospital, and he had a full MOT, ECGs fine etc. There is something wrong I think, but he was well enough to be discharged.
He's asked me out for a 'date' on Friday.
I have my own thoughts.
Wondering what yours are? Thanks again x

OP posts:
AlternativeTentacle · 22/11/2017 17:48

He's asked me out for a 'date' on Friday

No. He escalated very quickly to the fake sickness didn't he? Cripes.

Cambionome · 22/11/2017 19:06

No no no. Don't be taken in by this... be brave and keep going.

I was in the same situation as you for a long time and finally separated from my h in September. I was so nervous about it but honestly the most difficult thing by a mile was making the decision; I feel so much better without him, and - tbh - he wasn't nearly as bad as your dh sounds.

Keep posting - we are all here to support you. Flowers

Lcar · 23/11/2017 13:21

Thank you again.
I'm going to meet a very old friend for a coffee this afternoon. He told me some time ago that he doesn't like me seeing her 'as she fills my head with stupid ideas', but I've told him I'm going and he just said ok.
Why do I feel so totally petrified? My heart is pounding and I feel a bit dizzy. What is going on with me?

OP posts:
GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 23/11/2017 13:45

No no no, do not let him manipulate you like this, you're doing so well and he sounds HORRIBLE! Get out, and make a nice life for yourself and your DC.

DEFINITELY go and meet your old friend, he is trying to isolate you and wear you down.

That scene you described when he 'almost' hit your 16-year old DD almost had me shouting at the screen. Horrific. I hope she forgave you for taking him back - show her that this is not acceptable and walk out with your head help high.

Do not tell him about the new house either. Not until you're out and safely in it.

Clear out whilst the kids are at school,

^ Yes!

Do it on a Friday so that the kids have the weekend to unpack into their new rooms.

^ Smart idea!

Good luck OP, keep us posted. Flowers

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 23/11/2017 13:45

*held high

averylongtimeago · 23/11/2017 13:59

Alternative tentacle has got it exactly right, a perfect plan.
Go and see your old friend, sign up for the other house and move out. Say nothing until you are safe.

Don't let him keep you a prisoner, you have one life, so live it!

hellsbellsmelons · 23/11/2017 16:20

You've been 'conditioned' over decades.
That's why you feel like you do.
It's all totally normal in your situation.
I agree, the manipulation of his 'illness' is nothing unusual either.
All abusers do this.
Please do call Womens Aid - they will help with your 'sanity' over this situation.
It's awful - really really awful.
So many forms of abuse.
They can help you see it for what it is. 0808 2000 247
The scales are falling and you know what you need to do.
Definitely do NOT go on a 'date' with your abuser.
Flippin' 'eck.
He really is a cock of the highest order.
Make other plans and tell him you can't because you are doing something else.

Lcar · 07/02/2018 11:41

Hi all, thank you so much for your help and advice. Three months on and I'm still going through the motions, still hanging in there, still sometimes feeling ok, sometimes not. He has now been diagnosed with heart disease, and is on so many tablets that he rattles when he walks. And the other change is that today, after he left, I packed a suitcase for myself, and I have it in the car. So the balance is shifting a little. Can anyone advise me - if I choose not to go back, and to stay on a friend's sofa for a few days/ weeks/ months until I can get myself a place, can I go back for my children at a later date? I can't take them with me now, I have nowhere of my own to go. I need to check our rental contract, as we are both named as tenants on it, but I guess I will still be liable for rent and utility bills? Thank you x

OP posts: