Boyfriend does not want to get married

[Lolosoap2]

Hi all,

This is my first time sharing on mumsnet, so please be kind if I am not using the tool properly

My boyfriend and I are both in our early 20s, we have been together for 3.5 years and we have met at the University. I must say I don't think I am particularly happy about my relationship and here is why:
Firstly, I need to tell you more about him in order for you to understand the character: he comes from a very wealthy family and grew up as a single child in Switzerland (to give you an example, he grew up having his own 40m2 playroom in his house in Switzerland facing the lake). I, on the other hand, comes from a family of entrepreneurs with very modest origins, no study background ( I am the first person in my family to attend University) but who worked really really hard and finally made it and now they have a very comfortable life.
We currently live in the same flat in Central London, we have both been to top universities in the UK and earn about the same. His working hours are 9 to 7pm, but mine, are much more like 9 to midnight/ 2am ( I work for a financial institution and I knew what I was signing up for, so no worries on that end). Ever since we moved in together, I must say I have been feeling slightly like a 14 years old constantly receiving orders from her parents.
I do not commit to the cleaning/ organising of the house as much as I should, due to my long working hours and I know that pretty well. However I do pay a cleaning lady to come 2 times a week for 2 hours to take care of what I am not able to do (she does my laundry, and clean up the bathroom, change the sheets, clean up the kitchen, tidy the flat). But still, every morning, he screams (Yes he screams a lot) at me and dresses lists of what I have not been doing around the house ( I did not take care of the bills, nor participated in the latest IKEA order choices, or did not put the bean downstairs). I must say that I feel like the heavy lifting of the house, is done by the cleaning lady that i pay alone 2 times a week. Even if I explain him, look it is 8 am, I left work at 3 am and slept 4 hours, can we discuss this later, he continues on and on, follows me in the flat screaming, gets more angry if I am not responding and always complain about feeling like a home husband. Then when he calms down, we have to sit and he dresses long lists of what I need to improve with my personality, name all my flaws and ask me if I have a plan to change these flaws (the flaws are my lack of organisation, my selfishness, my non-structure in taking care of the flat, my lack of responsiveness when criticism are being made). I then need to explain the plan and then we can move on. He also picks up on every thing I do not do in a preferred manner. So he does not like the way I yawn (apparently I make a noise that he dislikes (and I yawn a lot because I am quite often tired when I am working late) and make constant comments and sometimes scream for this reason. I refrain from yawning or hide to yawn in order not to end up in the vicious circle, of screaming, insulting, explaining plan and apologising again and again. On top of that I am screamed at and he implies on a daily basis that I am very stupid ( every day almost, I would hear something like, "You are brain dead", "You are an idiot", "No wonder you lost your first job" ( My first job ever when I was 21, company decided they did not need so many new hires and fired half of the new hires,you can imagine it was a traumatic experience))
I must say, I feel like he is not supporting of my work (he knows it is temporary, only for a year or two, and it will allow me to start an amazing career afterwards with more normal hours). He does not understand that I don't come from a wealthy family and I have decided to work very hard to make a comfortable life for myself. I feel like my entire life is about making him comfortable and making sure his needs are met. I work very hard, and when I am home I need to make all the efforts in the world to make sure everything is set according to his will (not yawning, spend my week ends taking care of the house while he is in the pub or partying to avoid being screamed at etc). I don't know why I love this person, I think I have developed some sort of dependence. What really worried me is the following: He does not want to get married and wants to live in Switzerland. I know that if I stay with him, regardless of whether I would like to get married and live in France (my home country) I would have no choice. It is just about realising that I have no say in how we conduct our lives, I can only receive orders and follow these orders. Otherwise get screamed at. I feel like he is very verbally violent with me (screaming, insulting) and uses this to intimidate me.
Also, he is the kind of guy that behaves like a real sweetheart to his friends, and everyone loves him. If I left him I would completely lose my social network, I would have nowhere to live, and I still love him. I even think, maybe if I just do everything he is asking for I can avoid getting into troubles and live a quiet life. But it kills me to have no say in anything

Have you been through similar situations or with men with similar behaviours? What did you do? Am I being unreasonable and should I simply accept the fact that my job and professional ambitions are the problem? Is it ok to expect more support from him (having him do most of the stuff around the house because I work so much)?

Completely lost to be honest with you

I haven't been in your relationship situation because I would have dumped him long before this point. I have seen lots of friends in relationships over the years and men like this don't change for the better, they usually get worse. This might even be him trying to be accommodating at the beginning of a relationship!

Since you've mentioned his family background and wealth as an important factor to understand his character, it's most likely a deep sense of entitlement that is part of the reason he behaves this way (combined with a misogynistic view of female/male relationships). Does his family speak to each other like that? What are the dynamics between his mother and father or other couples or brothers/sisters in his family / circle?

But really though, at such an early stage in a relationship you should love him as he is and not want him to change. Why do you want to carry on with him?

If you really want to try one last time, tell him how you feel - what you've said above. Print it out if you need to. Tell him what behaviour is unacceptable to you. You really need to ask yourself why you want to try again though.

Lolosoap2,

re your comment:-
"Also we are still so young, has any one of you seen someone change? I guess I am still hoping some things could change in the future if he gets more mature etc. Would really like to hear from someone who has been in a similar situation, maybe I could make some efforts as well. Do you know how should I talk to him about all of this, and what kind of reaction could give me hopes. I just want to try one last time before giving it up"

You cannot at all reason with someone like him who is ultimately unreasonable. This man put on an act and one that lasted till now although there may well have been red flags before now. This man like you describe hates women, all of them.

Also such men do not change; this is who he is. My friend was in a not too dissimilar situation to you (her relationship was like yours an abusive relationship) and she went onto leave him when she herself came to the realisation that he was not going to change. Talking to him did not work (the abuser never co-operates) and just made her further walk on eggshells around him.

Your last sentence above seems to be veering into the "sunken costs" fallacy that also happens in relationships and that causes people to keep on making poor relationship decisions. A bad investment is not suddenly going to become good. What else realistically can you try, you cannot and should not for instance have joint counselling with him. Counselling for your own self and alone would be beneficial to you going forward.

You've probably already given him more than enough chances so he does not need or warrant another one. Giving him another chance simply gives him more opportunity to shout and or otherwise verbally abuse you.

By the way, this isn’t about “giving up”. This isn’t a failure on your part.

This is about making a rational nature decision that this relationship has run its course.

It is just that it would be so much more simpler if he could just chill out and stop criticising me all the time and putting so much efforts at showing me what i should be doing and picking up on my flaws.

• What, you mean just be a completely different person to the one he actually is?

This is the thing you need to see and understand, and that sentence shows that you don't, not yet.

He is like this because he is not a very nice person.

He screams.
He criticises.
He bullies.
He likes running you down.
He dictates your life - believes he has the right to dictate your life.
He is a devious, clever abuser who plays the nice guy to your friends and family. So he can be nice - he just isn't to you, because he's an abuser that is hardwired to be a bullying shit to his partner.

It often takes a couple of years for nasty abusive men like this to show their true colours. When you start a relationship, you are loved up and people are on their best behaviour. Now, you are seeing the real him.

Yes, you are young - will he change? The one thing I would say from the perspective of being much older than you is that I have learned with age that people DON'T change. Not their basic personalities.

Your reasons to stay with him - come on, be brave:

• you would lose your friends and social network. You are early 20s. I know very few of the people who were my social network then. True friends stay. Groups of people met through work, hobbies, uni - they change, drift, new friends are made. You have YEARS ahead of you of new opportunities, new places, new jobs, all of which you'll meet people through. Don't be afraid.

• you would have nowhere to live. This is NO reason to stay with someone, certainly when you are young, no children, and solvent. You could give notice, if renting, and move to a flatshare which would also help you meet new friends. Do you own this flat?

• you love him. What exactly do you love? Being hated? Being stopped from moving forward with your own life? Being screamed at? Don't you really mean 'He is what I know, he is familiar, a leap into the dark scares me'?

Do you want to live like this for the next fifty years? Because you will.
Do you want your children to grow up knowing only this kind of unpleasant, stressful, bullying homelife. He'll treat them as he treats you.
Do you want to never live in your home country again?
Do you want to be hit? He will, eventually.

You are really young, you have so much opportunity waiting for you.

Don't ruin your life by staying with this piece of shit.

Leave him ffs. Neither of you are happy. The only reason I would stick around in your situation is for a massive divorce settlement to teach the bastard a lesson but clearly that isn't going to happen so go find someone else while you are still young.

The thing is, I have known for a long-time that his behaviour is abusive, that I should not be treated this way and getting your reactions reflects what i have been thinking deep down all this time.
What really breaks my heart is how our friends have witnessed this behaviour but never, ever said anything. Of course they don't want o get involved and I can understand that. But it just this feeling of not getting any support, I just don't know who to call a friend anymore.
Also, what really breaks my heart is realising that he always felt I was of less importance for some reason.
I just asked him if we could take one hour to speak this week end, go somewhere and leave our phones behind (he is completely addicted to his phone, any conversation I am having wit him he is starring at his phone, or conversations are interrupted because someone is calling him, it is really hard to communicate with him for this reason). I will see how he reacts when I raise the issues of power imbalance in our relationship or how we see the future etc. I know there will be no comforting answer. I just feel like I am going to lose lots of "friends" in the process. I dont know how I should approach my friends to let them know that I am breaking up and the reason is because of emotional abuse. I feel like I would look like the bad guy (the one causing the disruption in the group). I also want to ask them why they never ever supported me or said anything , I must say I am quite angry, is it reasonable to feel this way?

Yes he screams a lot

Nothing else needs saying. You're in a relationship with a toddler. He either gets his own way or screams; life with him is going to be an absolute nightmare. Leave him to his 40m playroom facing the lake (which, frankly, sounds better suited to his emotional capabilities) and focus on yourself and your career for a while.

Men like this don't evolve. They don't change even if you love them to the ends of the earth. They aren't capable of positive, happy, successful relationships, so don't waste the loveliest years of your twenties shackled to such an utter bellend. Not all men are like this. Not all men scream at women. You don't have to tolerate this and think "everyone goes through difficult times". This absolutely is not your lot in life.

Be angry! He's been treating you like shit and he's been abusing you. Use that anger to leave.

FFS! Leave him! Or tell him to get the hell out!

He is an abusive, self centred asshole. Be grateful he doesn't want to marry you ... why on earth would you want to marry your abuser?!

Run, run, run. Be thankful you aren't married to him

You should be angry about the way he treats you. Your friends sound like they are not worth keeping TBH. There are lots of people who are more concerned about keeping their social circle than doing the right thing - they don't make good friends.

realising that he always felt I was of less importance for some reason - he's a snob, he considers himself in a higher social class than you and you're a woman.

@ FizzyGreenWater
What you are saying just makes so much sense, he will never be a good parent. I just know it, if you pick up on someone's flaws all the time and get angry because of yawning noise, how can you raise children? Children by definition are super noisy and make all the mistakes in the world but it your role to accompany them and love them

I remember that time, We were (boozy) brunching with some friends (7 around the table approximately). He has some sauce on his nose, i told him and tried to take it out. Accidentally I hit his eye, i need to emphasise on accidentally and immediately apologies. His reaction? His slapped my hand, I just always felt like one day he would hurt me. The most bizarre thing is that our friends looked at us, some became red, but no reaction. I just don't know how I will react towards my friends, who never ever reacted, I am not sure I am being fair, maybe they thought about not making comments in order for things not to escalate. I dont know

He's being a prick. When you are in a partnership with someone who works much longer hours than you you suck it up and accept you are doing the lions share of the cleaning. You're not physically at home to do it, and you've taken care of your share by hiring a cleaner which is more than most would do. I work very flexible hours and most days have a solid five or six hours in the house alone while my OH is still at work (not to mention the times he works all weekend and I don't) so I do the vast majority of the cleaning so when he's home he isn't having to spend his rare downtime doing it. It's what you do when you love someone.

You don't want the same things or get on even when you're together and from the sounds of it he can't stand you or treat you with respect. Don't fall into the trap of thinking your first long relationship must be the one and should be preserved at all costs.

And any 'friend' who'd ditch you after breaking up with someone when they've witnessed his behaviour is a friend you're better off without. Go it alone, find your own path.

Envoi le chier !!!!

Maybe I need to say, that his mother screams a lot, and I feel like for him it is a normal behavior to scream at people. We have been in situations with his mom where she would scream at people and get very impatient in the restaurant fro example. I know where he gets this.
Also, he started working before me, and when I was still a master student he really took care of me financially (well he landed me money), I still owe him around £3500. Of course it was very generous of him to lend me this money and support me when I was studying, but it cannot explain why he feels like he owns me. I have been so dependent for a long time, and now it is continuing even though we should be on the same level (minus 3500 of debt, f**g debt if I knew I would have borrowed from a bank, more interest payments, less emotional struggling)

If the screaming was something he couldn't control he would do it at work and with his friends.

He does it to you because he can and to put you in your place.

He sounds horrible.

If you like to read, 'why does he do that' by lundy bancroft is very good and I have an e copy I could email you if you like.

It's very common to feel you're in love with someone like this even if you know his behaviour is abusive. Part of it is Stockholm syndrome and partly relief he's not screaming at that moment. Don't be hard on yourself.

Just try to imagine a life for yourself where you can feel relaxed in your home with no pressure to conform to impossible standards then build that life for yourself at your own pace.

It's possible your friends think if they challenge him it could make things worse for you.
I lost a lot of friends though when I split up with my ex. I don't regret it at all.

Leave him, he doesn't even like you. Sounds a total price to me.

Men like this dont change they adapt to their new surroundings. Imagine yourself in 10 years time, married with 2 young children, you will be screamed at for being useless and a financial burden. Do you really want to live the next 50+ years of your life being treated like that in front of children, family and friends? Please leave and find someone who loves you for you, even your flaws.

He's a prick. You're not that desperate for a man.

Are you?

Only got to like line six before I concluded he is an arse! You two are not compatible. It doesn't work.

All the more reason to realise he won't change.

Did you know it was a loan when he gave you the money? Was it cash in your hand or was he paying a higher share of the bills? Are you sure this is a debt? He wasn't "taking care of you" by lending you money you could have borrowed elsewhere.

Please, please - leave this man.

He is abusive, he won’t change. It sounds like he doesn’t want to/doesn’t think he needs to anyway.

Like you say, you’re young with a great career ahead of you. You will make new friends, have new experiences. My guess is you will enjoy life a lot more, and feel a hell of a lot more free, when you leave him.

His behaviour isn’t normal, and isn’t excusable.

He sounds terrible!
He screams at you!? What the f*? That's not normal.
People do change, but not very quickly and not very much!
He just sounds like a horrible person who is abusive, AND HAS ALREADY HIT YOU once (out of instinct I guess, which is very woryring, that that's his gut reaction!)
Also I think you are fundamentally incompatible in terms of where you want to live, and him not being supportive of your work. (I work long hours - doing a PhD - and my DP SUGGESTED we got a cleaner, which used to be my "job").

BTW I think "fundamentally incompatible" and "want diffferent things" are what you should say when you break up with him, which you definitely should do!

Run!. What is it with a certain type of woman who gets involved with a totally unsuitable man and insists on "changing him". He is like he is and will only get worse. He is very obviously not the man for you and I cannot comprehend why you are still standing there. There's more men than flies out there, and many of them much nicer than that one.

Lots of reasons SVRT19674. Youth, inexperience, infatuation, being conditioned by your past experiences to accept abuse, low self esteem, weighing up options and thinking it'd be more painful to leave.

SO basically, to give a sense of how I ended up with £3500 of debt. So he would tell me, lets go brunch or lets go to the restaurant and he would pay for me (as a student I could not afford to go brunch) and put it on tricount (an app that helps you share the bills). I had the tricount kept to a normal level, but sometimes expenses will pile up, for example he absolutely wanted a huge super high quality TV. His argument was, I am bored when you are working. My argument was, I cannot afford a TV that I will never use. I am ok to buy a TV, but lets keep reasonable, lets not buy the most expensive one on the market. The next day I went home at 4 am from work and ended up seeing the package of the huge TV, he had bought it even though I said I wanted something cheaper and of course the expense was on tricount. Similar things happened with the furniture and the overall expenses of the flat. Quickly I ended up with 3500 of debt on tricount
I have completely let the expense get out of control, and because I was not paying I did not really realise how much was being spent. I also know that I would never have spent this much on my own, I completely got dragged into his lavish lifestyle. Very very good lesson learnt, trust me. Dont' spend money you dont have, even when it is generously offered, dont ever be tempted by stupid stuff you dont need as it would hunt you down at some point.