Concerned my ex hasn't told me they are moving to a horsebox

[maisonettedweller]

My child has recently come home from their other parent's house, which is a long way away. We have shared care (though they are with me 80% of the time).

My child told me that my ex has bought a horsebox and will live in it when the house they are currently living in is sold (my ex is not the owner). My child is reliable, and I trust their understanding of the situation accurately reflects what my ex told them.

My ex has not mentioned this to me, other than writing they bought a "truck" in the handover diary (containing activities they have done together), which I initially assumed meant a pickup truck, to replace their car, till my child told me about the horsebox.

I emailed asking if they are intending to move, and they are being very evasive and only confirming they intend to move "next year". They have not said anything about it not being a house, and won't give me further details (which they must; that has been made clear to both of us in the past, in fact we each require permission from the other to move our child's home).

I don't inherently object to people living in horseboxes. I think it should be easier for people to live in cheaper and lower-impact ways like that. But I do have concerns about how my ex will consistently meet my child's needs in that situation. E.g. reliable water, light, heat, communication, a secure address (not being moved on) etc. Especially when they are not from a travelling background, so have no experience living that way, and presumably no contacts in the relevant community.

These concerns are not being answered because they won't even tell me they are intending to live in this horsebox, let alone discuss details like that with me.

I know this post is a bit vague in places, but I have to minimise the amount of information I give.

Chances are not all the details are worked out yet so yes yabu, if the children came home and told you that they'd already moved then you wouldn't be, but they haven't yet.

My ex could have just said "I need to move next year, let's discuss it properly when I have more ideas", if they were going to mention it to our child at all yet.

Instead they've got them all excited about it (and apparently given them plenty of details about it) but not said one word to me.

The point of them having a responsibility to tell me in advance is so agreement on my part is meaningful. If they present it (or not, even!) as a fait accompli, e.g. "I've already bought it, too late, can't waste the money now", any objection I have (however valid) is moot.

Buying a home is a fairly big "detail" which has apparently already been worked out with no communication at all with me, nor my agreement, which they must seek first. Which doesn't fill me with confidence that they can work out the other "details" sensibly.

I am getting a feeling that you were in an abusive relationship, or at least an abusive break up hence stuff like this being nailed down so securely in court because a simple house move within a local area would not normally cause these issues.

For that reason I think you need to give them one chance to be up front before you go back to legal recourse regarding access/shared care. Without more details (which I understand you cant give) its hard for anyone to be impartial and give decent advice but on what you have said (and implied) YANBU to be very concerned about whether your child will have a secure and permanent place to live when with them.

And I would get this moved to Relationships if I were you.

And of course the quality of accomodation would concern me, running water, heat, sanitation, proper bed, privacy ec.

Thanks for the suggestion Pyongyang, I've asked them to move it.

Can't you just write him/her an email outlining your concerns and ask a straight question?

There is no need to turn it into a big drama at this stage, it's possible s/he already has an arrangement to stay on private land temporarily and that this is not a long term plan to be of no fixed abode, merely a stop gap between two static settled homes?

This horse box might be a complete shell at the moment and a long term project that takes years to come to fruition, so more of a hobby/lifestyle dream at this stage, so just stay calm and ask the appropriate questions.

You are not going to find the answer by speculating and neither are we.

Just tell him/her what your child told you and ask them straight about what their plans are, because obviously you are entitled to know exactly where your child will be staying at all times and you need to have a discussion about that in advance of it happening, as per the court order.

I have lived in hat situation. Water, light, heat and communication should be no issue. Being moved on can be,withouta permanent site, but not all ways. BIL has just been reassured by the council that they can stay where they are until February, on their non permanent site, so long as everyone behaves.

If the conversion is done well, it will be beautifully warm and I'd assume have a burner. Probably a generator or a camper van style leisure battery. Gas bottles for cooking and large water cans.

Horse boxes are good and fairly easy to convert. They're a pretty decent size inside.

If it's going to be a DIY conversion, I would be a bit concerned.

When we bought our motorhome, we considered some which had been converted. When we looked into it, we soon decided against it.

There are lots of things that need to be done really properly: electrics, plumbing, heating and ventilation. The thought of an amateur messing about with gas pipes and electrics (and they have fiendishly complicated electrics) doesn't appeal. Ventilation is also a big issue: LPG for cooking, heating and water heating gives off carbon monoxide, which can be lethal if the ventilation isn't effective.

Even though ours is insulated and has plastic windows that don't lose heat much (plus reflective, insulated blinds), it gets perishing cold at night. You can't leave the gas heater on all night, as it gets too hot. It's fine for us, but might not be warm enough for a child

For motorhomes, you can get some peace of mind by getting it checked by a specialist who will issue a "habitation certificate". I wouldn't be comfortable with a child staying in an amateur conversion that wasn't certified.

It would also depend on where they were staying. We have to fill up with water at least every other day and there's only two of us, so they'd need to be staying somewhere where water is easily accessible.

I think you're right to be concerned, but I wouldn't rule it out. It can also be great fun, and our nieces and nephews love to "camp out" in ours when we have overnight visits.

My main concern would be that your dc would be bullied for living in a horsebox.

Also, it's not exactly what a court or SS would deem a 'stable pun intended home environment' is it? Too much uncertainty. Plus physical dangers - electrics, fire, sanitation, clean water. It's a batshit notion in my opinion.

Has he confirmed the horse has moved out??!

In addition to what LakieLady said above re making a horsebox habitable, does your ex know anything about horseboxes? Has he ever owned one and would he know what to look out for when 'shopping' for one? I've seen owners caught out by all kinds of structural/bodywork problems caused by heavy usage before. Probably the worst in older boxes with cabs is when the floor has rotted underneath the rubber mats that are put in to stop the horses slipping while in transit.

In theory it's perfectly possible to buy a sound second hand horsebox and convert it but from the sounds of it your ex isn't equipped with any of the skills to do so. Sounds more like one of those 3am great-idea-if-you-don't-look-too-close things that's gone too far...

How old is your child? KS1/2/3, nursery?

Have you said to your ex "DC says you are moving to a horse box. Please can you expain as per the court order"

OP you're getting a really hard time here. Defo get the thread moved. I have a DC and would be horrified in the situation you describe. Saying there are some nice horsebox caravans out there is entirely missing the point. I'll go out on a limb and say a person with a history of living in brick built houses suddenly going into a caravan type setting would concern me greatly. It's a huge lifestyle shift not to be done lightly. DC would probably love the novelty of it but I would be deeply concerned as to the mindset of the ex.

Op I'm really sorry but my first instinct was is this for real and I laughed.

But knowing what my X is capable of this is not really very ingenuous of me. They really can pull some stunts!

The lack of information will be deliberate to put you in a tailspin as you now are - just another way of derailing your life and not allowing you to move on - undermining you by telling your DC butwithholding information from you - putting your DC in the middle by getting them excited so they want to tell you and in a normal relationship this would be perfectly ok.

But it's done with intent knowing you will be caught off guard knowing you will try and find out more info from your dc - which somehow puts you on a back foot with them as its nigh on impossible to ask questions without imparting some of the concern you have which is totally understandable and reasonable but puts a seed in their head as to why you are always asking questions about the x which they cannot answer and they do not get the significance of the underlying motivation.

I feel for you op if this is what you are going through - I've started a thread on exactly this although I've not had many public comments I have had some MPs.

I may pm you as I'm interested in the advice you have had

Wait and see what happens. Maybe they haven’t told you as it’s just an idea at the moment.

Pms !! Although it may end up with MPs

Handover diary? Never heard of that...seems very odd to be documenting activity when with the other parent.

As for the rest, wait and see. If they do it, and its not appropriate then deal with it then. If they do it, and you just don't like it much, then leave it.

I’d send the email asking quoting the court order. Tbh I’ve not heard if many saying they need to share info like this so presume there must be a back story.

What info does the court order say you have the right to exactly? To know the address where your child is when they are with your ex? Or to be notified in advance of any permanent changes of address? If it's the former then maybe your ex isn't technically breaking any rules yet until the move actually happens.

Is your concern more based on the fact that you won't know where your child is when they're in the horsebox with you ex, ie s/he has a track record of not returning the DC in a timely fashion after contact or whatever so it would leave you feeling panicked in that regard? Or that the horsebox won't be suitable for your DC to live in?

For goodness sake zzzz actually in this case the op does need to be consulted as she has said several times. Presenting her with a decision made that they are moving to y In a week would be against her court order.
Also for those who haven't read it, the exs house is being sold next year. So he is moving next year, somewhere. Which he has to consult the op with.
Op I think you will need to take it back to court I'm afraid, I doubt they will reply. Or you could stop your child going until they do I suppose, not sure of the consequences of that.

They aren’t ready to tell you yet. That’s fine. Ask him to discuss living arrangements and dates as soon as it’s clearer his end. Tell him you are aware he’s going to be living in a horse box and you need to ha e a discussion at some point about the ins and outs of it.

OP, this thread should be moved to Relationships soon. Then you might start getting some serious answers to your question. FWIW, I would be horrified at the details you give, and the situation your ex appears to be proposing sounds utterly untenable.