DW won't allow me to take DS fishing as she says it's animal cruelty.

[MichaelJamesP]

DS knows about fishing, etc. and asked if we could go. I fished when I was his age.

DW has said absolutely not. Saying she doesn’t want to encourage him to injure animals.

Surely fish don’t feel pain?

It’s ridiculous, surely? Would you just take him when she is at work?

I think it's hypocritcal to object to fishing unless you also only eat responsibly farmed/'kindly' killed meat and fish.

Commercial fishing is cruel. There are trawlers which use pulsing currents that kill everything on the sea bed, all the baby fish as well as the ones they want to catch. They use nylon netting, which when lost, do not decompose and trap wildlife. A sole fisherman is doing nowhere near that damage to the environment. My dad even uses cotton line rather than nylon and steel hooks rather than stainless steel, because they decompose if lost.

That said, if you value your relationship, do not do this behind her back. That epuld be really disrespectful and tells your son that you do not think his mother's opinions are important. You have to come to a consensus between the two of you.

Sorry, should clarify some commercial fishing is cruel. Not all.

Well op let’s reframe this...

Imagine another animal 50 times your size (or larger) put a metal hook through your lip and dragged you under water for 2-3 minutes where you cannot breathe, you are just on the brink of death when they unhook you and bring you back to the surface, all so they can take a photo of you, and this happens repeatedly to you throughout your life.

As a vegetarian I completely agree with your wife!

If fish had vocal cords angling would not exist as a pleasant hobby

I agree with her

I would not allow anybody to take any future child of mine fishing/hunting/shooting

Fish to eat, not for sport

What about taking him crabbing?

No hooks involved and it's great fun trying to get the crap up into the bucket before they let go of the bait

I had great fun as a kid doing this in wells-next-to-the-sea

Well I agree with your dw. (But I an veggie and I rescue wasps from swimming pools).

So are you guys all vegan then? Because not wanting to encourage your children to hurt animals but then feeding them animal products that are derived by hurting animals is hypocritical. If anything I think that it is a good thing to teach children that animals can feel pain in whatever way it is they feel it and that the cost of us eating meat, drinking milk etc is their pain. This can lead to more interesting discussion regarding pain relief methods during slaughter, the metaphysical state of animals in contrast to humans, the ethics of causing suffering to keeper being for non essential purposes such as furs and leather sofas. You can also then have comparative analysis of different theological stances on the subject (e.g. Judaic animals have no souls and man was created to be their master vs Vedic animal souls are of the same substance as human ones but occupy animal bodies because they are not good enough for human bodies for one reason or another). Now of course all of these wonderful discussions can be had while fishing.

Reread that, I'm not vegan for the record. The life of an animal has little worth. So long as you don't cause them pain, ethical breeding, rearing, slaighter I don't see the problem.

I think catch and release is far more cruel and far less justifiable than killing and eating them. Catch, kill, eat = something the majority of the carnivorous world does.

Muck around, catch, take a photo, put it back to do it again = just messing around, really.

Soubriquet - spat my tea out at the crap in the bucket!

It's a great alternative though, because you don't damage the crabs, and they get a snack.

I'm personally of the mind that catch and release is cruel. I think if you are going to catch fish, you should be doing it so you can eat them. Not just for entertainment.

But I don't have a problem with fishing in general. I went fishing as a child and we'll probably eventually take our dd. But she eats fish. She knows where they come from and what they are, so I don't have a problem sharing that with her. I was a vegetarian for 20 years, and though I eat meat now, it's really important for me that she knows where her food comes from and understands what it is and can be respectful of that.

I just don't get the point of catch and release though, so no, I think we'd steer clear of that and go somewhere where we could actually fish for fish to eat. I think it sends a different message about the value of life (if you're going to inflict pain, and fish do feel pain, then you should be doing it for subsistence and not just for amusement). But unless you're vegetarians, she can't exactly be upset about fishing in general. I think this belief system that some people have about how meat and fish just appears from the supermarket fairy without confronting the fact that it is an animal that has died so you can eat it is a bit silly.

Wow, it seems like not a single woman on this thread wants you and your son to go fishing!

I say go, it's good father son bonding!

Most places do Halal food and the animals have their throats slit, when you have roast beef or a bacon sandwich the animals have a bolt go through their skulls/brain. If your wife is a vegetarian and can claim the moral high (I don't mean that in a shitty way) Fair play she has a point but if you're having meat for tea tonight, don't sweat it! I cant begin to tell you the joy and adventures and how much I'd smile when my Dad used to wink and say 'Don't tell your mum son!' I'm 34 and cooking him bubble and squeak for tea. The man is a living legend in my eyes.

Raraolala
Biologist here. People used to think fish didn’t feel pain because they are “simpler animals” and don’t have a nervous system quite like ours . There is increasing evidence they do feel distress and pain though.

Also, ripping a hole in any animals mouth is going to cause it damage. A reasonably high number of fish die even if thrown back due to oxygen deprivation or through the injury!

Furthermore, fishing hooks / lines etc quite often end up in birds if accidentally lost or littered. It’s not as harmless as people think.

If you are fishing for sport and not food I don’t really see why your wife’s diet could make her a hypocrite. That’s like saying anyone who objects to me kicking a sheep for fun is a hypocrite if they eat lamb.

This
And for those wheeling out the "you're not a vegan so you cant object" argument, please read this last paragraph again ...

If you are fishing for sport and not food I don’t really see why your wife’s diet could make her a hypocrite. That’s like saying anyone who objects to me kicking a sheep for fun is a hypocrite if they eat lamb.
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Why not just buy the child a goldfish (to look after)? I'm sure he'd get more pleasure looking after a live pet.

Your wife is being massively unreasonable, but I don’t think you should go behind her back.

Yes, fish feel pain, but I’m told they get over it quickly

Why would you think fish don't feel pain?

I agree with your wife. But even if I didn't, I'd still advise you not to take your son fishing if she is so against it morally. It's not okay to enable your shared child to do something she finds morally abject when it's unecessary. You get a few hours of fun with him which you can achieve with other activities, she gets a husband who puts a hobby above her wish not to have her child engage in animal cruelty. This isn't a hill you should be prepared to die on.

Sorry soubriquet your typo made me laugh a lot:

"No hooks involved and it's great fun trying to get the crap up into the bucket before they let go of the bait"

Just had a brilliant image of OP and son trying to encourage an inert turd into a bucket!

I didn't even notice till you spotted it

Glad it gave you a laugh though

It's super cute considering it's about faeces 😂

Yes, fish feel pain, but I’m told they get over it quickly

Told by whom?

Tell her to mind her own business and take your son fishing. Do catch and release if need be. It is massively important for young people to know where food comes from.

And even more important to teach them trust and not to lie.