How can we fix this? Should I stop working?

[Sevendaysinaweek]

Sorry if this is long...

I guess our story may be familiar to many. DH works in a stressful, long hours job. He travels quite a bit too. During the week, he isn't really available to help with any aspect of DC or housework. During the weekend, he is tired and also has 'projects' around the house which he would like to get done so even then doesn't really help or engage very well (in my view).

My job is senior level and stressful too but I work part time (three days). On top of my job I do all the DC and housework related stuff. So I get them up, ready and fed in the morning, prepare school bags and packed lunches, get to work, rush to fit my work into an eight hour day, rush home in time for nanny finishing time, do homework with them and bedtime.

On top of this, one of our DC is quite challenging and doesn't sleep well. She struggles to get to sleep at night and I will often still be trying to settle her at 9/10pm (she is 5). She usually doesn't sleep through the night and comes to us - DH and I take turns sleeping in the spare room to accommodate this. All of this means I don't get much time for "chores" (never mind dinner or relaxing) in the evenings and I do things like laundry and other housework on my two days off while youngest is at pre-school for three hours.

So I suppose there are a multitude of issues here, but the upshot of it is that DH and I don't spend much time together, DH doesn't spend much time with the DC, and we are all very tired (except the youngest DC who sleeps beautifully). I also end up feeling resentful as although I work part time, I think shouldering the burden (mental as well as practical) of everything DC related is something DH underestimates hugely.

So where do we even start to fix this? I have suggested I stop working as it will reduce stress, give me more downtime and at least make me feel less resentful about picking up all the home stuff. It's completely feasible financially but DH is strongly opposed as he believes me working adds to the family financial stability (he is very risk averse), he thinks it is good for me mentally to work, and he doesn't want me to waste my degree... I have also suggested he change jobs but he likes his work and is paid very well so he's not keen on that either.

Are we missing a trick? What else can we do? How do others who struggle with similar scenarios solve this? Getting DC sleep sorted would lessen the burden significantly but we have really tried most things on that front and there is certainly no easy solution.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

If you could afford to give up work use that extra income to buy in as much help as possible. Gardener, laundry, cleaning etc...

Your DH needs to stop with these optional projects and actually get on with the essentials. It sounds a bit like he gets up each weekend and decides what he feels like doing - pottering about in the garden etc etc - while you then have to do everything else that he doesn't choose to do. Even if you both put in the same effort that isn't fair.
If you decide you want to hang nursery pictures all weekend, would he take over sorting out the week's laundry and dishes and weekend cooking? Didn't think so.

You need to draw up a list of chores that are divided into must do, nice to do, and completely optional. And then split each category in some meaningful way. Of course he doesn't have to do 50% of all chores, but whatever % it is based on his outside working hours vs yours, he needs to do it across categories. So weekly grocery shops on Saturday morning, or taking the kids out for two hours once a fortnight so you get time etc.

And you need to loosen your standards at home + outsource more. When your kids are 21 trust me they will never look back thinking oh my mum was perfect she always did our laundry and hoovering by herself by hand. outsource the cleaning, the laundry, the gardening etc to the extent you can afford. And get a list of all the little projects together and splurge on a handyman for one day.

Some men in an effort to avoid the boring chores will start every weekend by pulling out all the tools or all the Garden equipment and start off on these projects. And you can't technically fault them because look he's spent 5 hours doing something for the house, but honestly it takes away from family time and is just a silly way of avoiding doing an hour of chores and then hanging out together. Make that happen and your kids will thank you much more for having memories of lovely family time together.

Don't give up your job. That's a "solution" with years-long implications for a temporary problem which isn't really about your work anyway. And tbh I find those of us who enjoy challenging, stressful senior-level roles don't make the most natural SAHMs.

Your problem is, ultimately, your DH. (And your daughter's sleep, but that is solvable.) He's opting out of family life and family time, that isn't OK, and you resent it. I would take some of PPs' suggestions upthread, and I would combine this with having a serious talk with him and telling him that the two of you need to agree that he does [X] around the house and that Sunday is family day, or whatever, and that if he goes back on that after you've agreed it the two of you will have a serious problem.

Relatedly, I have no time for the "I'm so tired, I've had a hard week at work" man crap. Because you are fucking deeply rested? I'd like to see him cope with your week, then we'll see who's bloody tired.

The situation you describe is probably SO familiar to everyone! It's a woman working and picking up the 'Mental Load'! Your DH goes to work and prioritises odd-jobs at the weekend when you and your kids should be the priority. You keep going the way your going and you and your DH's relationship will suffer.

Get the number of an odd-job man and you delegate the jobs because your DH might feel disempowered. Ultimately though this will make all your lives easier so for me it's worth it.

Get a cleaner and send the ironing out. You presumable can afford it with you two in well paying roles?

Book things in the diary for all the family so for instance 'Go Ape', Cinema, trip to the beach beach combing so you all have something to look forward to. But more than anything, act sooner rather than later before you grow apart with resentment x

You don't like doing the laundry. He doesn't like doing the laundry. He promises to do the laundry. He does it. One day it is inconvenient or he forgets or something. You do it instead. You keep doing it. Fail!

In your head it is your job really and you don't believe he will ever take real ownership of it. Why would he when you are so clearly 'happy' to take it back at the first sign of him having a bit of a problem with managing the laundry job.

Do you see where that fails?

When it is his job, it is his job. Step away. Right back. Far far back. He will have to fail to understand deep down that it really is his job now even when he doesn't feel like it or it is awkward. You need to let him fail and everyone has a shortage of pants to get it clear in your head too.

DH does the laundry in our house. He is far stricter than I was when it was my job, which is probably a good thing.

We get the DC to check if they've got outfits for the week on Sunday morning. Sports gear, school clothes, going out with mates, clubs, etc. Younger ones need support to check but that's OK because it is a good habit. Older ones are the worst for mouldy gym kit and floordrobes but they know full well that if it isn't in the basket on Sunday morning then it will not be washed until next week, or they'll have to do it themselves. DH and I will totally send them out in dirty clothes.

Also, he apologises if he asks me to do it for him and makes up for it in some way because he feels it as his responsibility.

If I want something of mine washed a particular way or done out of schedule then I do it myself. No slur on him.

We have all of this, plus I work full-time around the school run and we don't have a nanny. You just get the bare minimum done. Everyone is fed. House is messy, but not unsafe or smelly, could maybe just use a bit of dusting. And unnecessary jobs get lefty undone, but they aren't really necessary anyway.

One thing, which I think you know, is that your DH probably needs to give a bit in terms of his work. There really is no point in working, working, working and missing out on family life. One day they'll be grown and off into the world, and he'll wished he was home more. When ours were little, my dh switched from a stressful job with very set hours to being self-employed and running his own business. He still works 60+ hours some weeks. But the difference is, he's home in the mornings many days (he leaves when we leave for school) and he is home by dinner every night. So he comes in the door, does the washing up, helps with dinner, does bath time after and then goes and does admin work for an hour or two in the evenings while I do bedtime. Just having an extra set of hands to help in the evenings (and mornings) makes a huge difference in my stress levels and I actually have time some days to sit down and relax for a bit. I think you should talk to him about changing his work or his hours or working more from home.

As for the weekend jobs, he needs to find a better way to de-compress and join in family life. We do much of that stuff, but the difference is we do it together as a family. So one of us (me) isn't stuck doing everything else. If we can't do it as a family, it waits or gets done when the timing is better. For instance, we've been needing to clean out the garage because we're moving some things around and need to make space. My dh goes and does it for an hour each weekend while I sit and do homework for the week with our dd. I'd be doing that anyway, so it is free time for him and it doesn't take away from the rest of the weekend and we have plenty of time together. Anything that doesn't get done in that hour will get saved for the next weekend. We also are always home together on Friday evenings, have a relaxed grown up dinner with wine, and de-compress together from the week. I think that helps with the transition too.

I agree though, I wouldn't give up your work. I find working, even when I'm rushing to do the school run, gives me some outside focus. I'd be bored out of my mind and unhappy otherwise. And yes, hire help. We're getting a cleaner soon too - once I get around to cleaning enough for the cleaner to come the first time!

Agree stern words need to be had with DH, and I need to step back properly from tasks which become his.

After me more or less imploding last night when DH came in at 21.45 and I was still dealing with DD bedtime while getting school bags and breakfast stuff ready, he promised to start helping in the mornings when he is around. So this morning, rather than staying in bed longer (!), he had an earlier shower and then made sure DC got dressed while I prepared breakfast. It made such a difference in the morning rush hour. If this was the new daily routine it would be fantastic.

I really like the idea of a family day on weekends when no chores are allowed to get in the way. I am also thinking of a new approach where if a "project" pops up in his mind, he raises it with me first and we can discuss who does it and when (and if it involves paint tins / the shed, the "when" could be "when the children are at uni" as far as I am concerned). Right now half the problem is he just wanders off and start doing it without discussing in advance..

My oh is not a present parent, he has Aspergers and also super risk adverse. I gave up a great career to be a sahp. I don’t regret this at all. I’d still have all the jobs to do but I’d see my children less.

Could you drop another day? Get a cleaner? Or I suppose a nanny for one of your days off so you can do stuff about the house? I’d still drop an extra day for the nanny thing as I’d feel like I was missing out on time with my kids to do all the house stuff. It really builds resentment if you love your hubby and you know he won’t pick up any slack or change you need to be the one that compromises unfortunately.

All aspects of my health is in a much better place for making these changes that my family needed. Do what you feel is best and factor in what’s best for you too.

What?!? He stays in bed in the morning while you rush around?!? No no no. You tag team. DH in travel days leaves by 6am, sometimes earlier. On these days he sets breakfast up, loads up the school bags and empties the dishwasher and takes the dog out before leaving. I then have my shower, get the DC up and changed. We eat breakfast without DH. On office days DH and I swap and he gets the Dc ready while I do breakfast. When he travels I do both but breakfast is laid out the night before. The DC help with the dishes too.

You really need to kick him into gear.

OP I think you have several separate issues here and need to approach them separately:

1. Sleep. It's making you, especially, tired all the time with no downtime. Elder DC must also be overtired which will be making everything harder. I don't know if I'd go down the sleep consultant route, it sounds from what you've said like she is fearful / worried not just bad habits and needs reassurance and support to move past that not 'training'. If I were you I'd co-sleep if it works for her, and you. And allow both DCs to do so if they want to. just get a big enough bed that YOU sleep well. FWIW our DD (4) sleeps in a double bed. So when she wants comfort in the night I just stumble in there and get in beside her. Until six months ago she'd sleep in my arms. now more often she sleeps on her side and I on mine. Sometimes she's tried to kick me out later on! we go through cycles of me sleeping in my bed, her in hers most of the time, and her needing more comfort and me being in with her mostly. DH is also a night owl so if he's working late I sometime get in with DD so i'm not disturbed by his arrival (which bothers me much more post kids). I don't agree that co-sleeping is 'bad'. It's not. They won't be in your bed as teenagers. If they need comfort in the night, and you sleep well with them, it's the easiest way to give it. I also find it a useful way to bank extra time with DD when I'm busy at work, e.g. if I've had an evening function or worked late. Sometime I just feel I need to be with her more and get into bed with her when I go to bed. She LOVES it. And hence is happy, secure and sleeps through the night, in the dark , in her own bed, about two thirds of the time.

think you need to thrash out with your older one what would help. Is it the going to sleep, or in the night. Maybe to reset you need to do both - stay as she falls asleep and then co-sleep. I often sing DD to sleep but if she's bouncing about not falling asleep within 15 mins or so I leave her with a book, and if she wants it a promise that i'll get in with her when I come to bed (which I always honour).

1. Your DH's engagement with the family. Think this is very common, mine can do it too - pre-occupied by work, not re-engaging. Compounded by DC orientating to me when I am there. So easy for weekends to be me with DC, DH doing his chores, and then getting huffy that I'm not 'doing anything'. Solution to this may be discussion, but it is also action. find yourself some weekend commitments that take you out of the house for long periods of time. Go away for the weekend. go on an all day work shop. then start a regular class. I'd do all of this before you have much of a discussion with him. He'll know your point (even if he won't admit it) once he's dealt with the DC on his own for the weekend: If you are not there, he will have to re-engage, and DC will have to work it out with him. I try to make sure I do this regularly, and when I do family life is more balanced. When I don't we fall into the habits you describe and everyone gets grumpy /resentful. To a certain extent its our job to get out of the way sometimes and leave our very capable DH's to work out the parenting. He needs you to take some me time for the sake of the family, truly. He'll both be doing more and appreciating what you do more, when you get back from your weekend away. It's win/ win.

1. Chores. You need to improve the split between you and your DH. Yes outsource, but he also needs to carry some of the mental load. We went around similar and DH now manages our washing (our cleaning lady irons and changes the beds) and pays the cleaning lady. I try very hard to stay out of this, even when he's left the sheets in the machine for two days. he does tend to spend his Saturday morning 'doing the washing' while I deal with DC. But I have solved this by going to a regular class on Saturday morning (which is learning his language so he HAS to be supportive) so he can't just ignore DC while he does his chores. He also takes DC to nursery every morning, though now afternoon activities are starting, i'm considering how to make sure he takes responsibility for getting the kit, the snack etc together.

But also, yes, outsource more. DH complains about the washing from time to time, I suggest we get our cleaning lady to do it, but point out it will cost more. He demurs so far, but we're about to have DC to so may change his mind. When I go back to work the second time I will look for someone to take on more responsibility for cooking, to plan and cook at least three meals a week. Our nanny is supposed to do this but like you is getting lazy, so i'll likely use mat leave as a reason to change nannies.

Please please please don't start to make bullshit excuses for him about blending back into family life at the weekend!

It's bad enough that he can't be bothered without you mentally excusing him too!

Some weeks, I work away Mon-Fri.
Other weeks I'm home but as I'm divorced I don't see my child for a few days.
Once she even went away on holiday with her dad for two weeks.

Guess what?!

The instant she was back, I instantly remembered how to be part of a family.

Which is just as well or otherwise the kid would have starved and probably called SS on me for neglect.

Total bullshit that he can't blend back into family life!

Also OP, these 'D'Hs stay at work to avoid family life sometimes. They do. Mine does. I see men in the office I work in doing it too. 'busying' themselves to avoid the hard work of family life. It's much easier to stay in the office for another (quite) hour 'working on that paper' than come home for a tough bedtime. Better to arrive home once the kids are asleep and have time to yourself (and complain your DW is grumpy).

My DH would deny this, it may even be subconscious, who knows, but it happens. When i'm out at the weekends, or if I have a work evening commitment (I've had a least one a week lately, where usually I always do bedtime) he has to engage with DD, they have a ball and he remembers how much fun it is.

I'm doing him a favour anytime I go out, really

He has a sleep in while you do everything in the morning normally! Why would you let that be your normal? Seriously why? That is weird for you to have tolerated that. You write about the one day of help defeatedly as if obviously it won't happen again.

Damn right there needs to be a new morning routine.

Stop placing the menz on a special pedestal. You are an equal! Surely you must except equality at work and wouldn't quietly accept a submissive role doing the menz work for them while they put their feet up?!

If your H 'forgot' stuff at work or had to be spoon fed to remind him he had things to do he would soon find himself unemployed.

Truth is he has decided you are there to do the drudge work for him. He and his time are more important and he basically doesn't care enough and can't be bothered.

If you do decide to outsource its plural. That means that if the both of you decide on the split of housework you also decide on what is outsourced together and who will manage the outsourcing. It's less work to outsource but you still have work involved because you need to manage expectations and make sure they are paid. That's after going through the selection process.

Seriously though, he needs to get involved. He has a very senior job.... so do you.

As everyone is saying, the issue here is your quietly manipulative DH.

My suggestion would be this - start making noises about him going down to a 4 day week if he really can't manage to do anything other then non-essentials and clearly can't cope with such s big disparity in work v home time that he feels disengaged from the grunt work. The solution to that would be for you to do an extra day and him to drop one, so that he begins to take on the real jobs of parenting that need doing. 🙂 watch him move like greased lightning.

The morning thing is a perfect example of how this really is about him taking the complete piss, and you being so conditioned to it that it actually happens. You race around getting your JOINT children ready while he is in bed?!

OMG.

I hope that's the last time that's going to happen and that you point out to him exactly how it shows up how much of this 'time issue' is actually a 'lazy selfish husband' issue!!!!

The house stuff is an excuse for him checking out completely. His attitude and behaviour need challenging not pandering to. Funny how fixing it appears to be your responsibility. Don’t give up your job because the next time there’s an issue, you’d be expected to sacrifice more, while he gets away with not having to.

Your DH is entirely taking the piss.

But I think at this stage you know that he's not going to genuinely change, that if it comes to it he's just going to keep on resisting doing his share.

If you genuinely do want to stay with him without eventually hating every fibre of his being, my advice would be to tell him that he has to actually start behaving like a husband and father (ie not lazing about in bed and not 'forgetting' to do the laundry) or he can fuck the fuck off. That's the only thing that ever works with men like that.

Wowzers, you need to delegate! Just stop doing stuff. If you need DH to do mornings then just don't get out of bed. Leave him to it.

What is your DH doing that he doesn't get home from work until almost 10pm? Is that really necessary project work or just arising around at the office? My DH works late but usually from home when he has to, so he can do his share of bedtimes.

Your DH is BVU with his weekend projects too.

Last night he was home late from a business trip. On days he doesn't travel he usually gets home between 8-9pm, often catching the last bit of bedtime at least for DD. Does he need to work that late every night? I guess so, I used to work there too and those are fairly standard hours there. But he's more senior now than we were when I left so I don't know if he could dictate his hours a bit more.

Can I ask those who co-sleep what you do at bedtime? Do you go to bed at the same time as DC? Knowing DD she'd be capable of messing about for an hour at least if we were in the same room together at bedtime.... no worse than now but not really better either. Although appreciate night time would be easier.

More to the point, can't he work from home after the DC have gone to bed. I was working in big4 working 100 hours a week often until 3am. Quite often I would come home for bedtime and then get back to work after they were down.

Right now you have made all the changes and he has made none. Quite convienient for him, not so much for you.

You conversation with him needs to be black and white and along with your actions afterwards. Saying 'You need to better manage your time because you are responsible for some of the work that goes into having a family. Right now I'm doing all of it and I'm not going to continue doing everything. You need to take responsibility and these are the big jobs we need to split between us.'

Then he has a list of jobs he is responsible for. When he travels he needs to make arrangements for those jobs to be taken care of or just plain acknowledge that you are doing him a favour.

Very few people travel as much as my DH and have a senior role alongside running their own business. I just never bought into the crap that he 'couldn't' do more because he was busy. Guess what, I was busy too.

I agree with Supermum. Too many men think they can have children and then basically act like they don't exist. If you have children, you have to put the time in to caring for them no matter how much you work. Women do it but men think they just don't have to (because their slave will do it for them).

Not acceptable.

Another one of my sayings to cut DH off when he is telling me he can't do something is 'Happy wife happy life. It's your choice darling.' I say it with a smile, often while giving him a hug and then walk away. The silence was uncomfortable at first but it worked very very well.