grown apart - blokes point of view

[nav21]

First post here and I am a bloke so apologies in advance...

Both mid 40s Married 16 years with 3 kids all over 7

I've just come to the conclusion that my wife is no longer attracted to me. She likes me (when we're not arguing) as a friend, a partner, a house mate. She says I'm a good husband and a good dad. We do work quite well together with the kids, the money, school runs, you know the day to day functioning of a family. No money worries, no problems with kids, no one else involved. A month ago I concluded that she no longer fancies me and since then we've struggled to speak to each other without arguing. Ironically this all came about immediately after a brilliant no expense spared family holiday. After 2 weeks in France we got home maybe midnight and had a lazy Sunday morning laughing about the holiday which then went on to me telling her how hot she looked with her suntan etc. The kids were clearly zonked out for hours and I guess I was getting a bit amorous. Sex has never been too plentiful (my view not hers) but her reaction was along the lines of "what the hell's wrong with you? Its bloody morning time and you had it twice on holiday". Her view is that more than once a week is abnormal. We argued about this. And then we realised that it was always me that initiated intimacy, it was always a bit of a chore to get over and done with, its never adventurous, always lights off, there was often a thousand excuses, and lots of maybe tomorrow if you are a good boy. It's not the actual lack of sex that's my problem, it's the stuff that goes with it, the fun, the excitement, the closeness. So we've been to Relate and we need sex counselling but it's not clear at the mo if any is available in our area. The thing is she's told me she's not attracted to me in that way and I'm a bit boring. Since she's said that I've suddenly lost all interest in her as well. Its a month now without even talking except to argue and every time we talk we seem to say things that makes it harder to back track. It's 1 am at the moment and I'm awake thinking so I thought why don't I just talk to some complete strangers.

It sounds like it might be time to end things and go your separate ways. You can see if the counselling makes a difference but it sounds like you no longer like each other, never mind the sex and attraction stuff, so what would you be trying to save?

Okay, deep breath! You have been really brave to come on here, most people will give you advice to get the spark back etc, it is so easier said than done, I know I've been in the exact same relationship, no sex, wanting it but the guy I live with, have had kids with, spent twenty years with isn't who fancy/want/feel lust for. Our way forward was to give each other space, encouraging each other to find hobbies, stuff outside, a different perspective on life. Family life and the day to day grind is a killer for libido, I (don't laugh) found going of to my allotment, time alone, digging earth, lying down on my lovely plot with a book and a picnic rug just gave me that bit of time away to go back to the domestic grind and feel refreshed..each to their own but find your escape x

Nav21 - sorry this is happening to you. It's so easy for people to say "oh just separate" but obviously real life isn't quite so simplistic.

If you both feel counselling could be of any help and you'd commit to it equally then hold out and see what Relate come back with. Though think you'd need to establish if underneath all the stress and drudgery of parenting 3 kids you both still have a spark that can be rekindled. That's at the heart of it I think.

Good luck to you - look after yourself at the moment.

Don't focus on the physical side so much focus on connecting mindwise. I seperated from my DH at Christmas, it stemmed from a very specific issue. We discussed things properly over a period of months. It was very painful, excruciating at times.

I'm glad we both decided to fight to save our relationship as that is what happened.

My first thought reading your OP is there's more to life than bonking!

Once a week is pretty bloody good in my opinion. We're in our early 30s just one DC and have been averaging one a month with 3 DC I'm impressed there's time for it at all.

There was a how often so you dtd thread a while back and there were a lot of frankly, ahem, unbelievable responses. I think it's very rare to admit how infrequent one's sex life is, even on an anonymous Internet forum.

Honestly, sex is lovely but with DC it's just one more item on the never ending to do list.

What exactly do want !? Deep down in your psyche, what do you want ?

And just as importantly, what does your wife want !?

I think Babycows advice is good. It's usually said that men get bored and want variety, little is said of women. I read something a while ago that argued that it was often women who got bored and lost their libido, until of course they met someone new.

What makes us bored, probably the same things as men. Same person, routine, drudgery, lack of fun, laughter, passion and stress. Probably the fact that we share a focus on the children and not ourselves or each other. Same sex, no variety. And for a lot of women, if after many years they feel less desire it's often because they feel less desirable. We don't think because you want sex with us it's because you desire us, we think you want sex because society has drummed it in to us that men just want sex, take what's on offer and are just looking for release. I've seen complacency, friends who grow too cosy, too fat, stop caring about their health and appearance. Assume because they are settled that there is no need to take care of themselves, this I think leads to a sort of incredulous "I'm not looking great, I'm not feeling great, so you can't desire me, and if you do, then you are not up to much either, and clearly then you must be undesirable too" it's a sort of double devaluation that keeps reinforcing itself.

Routine and the drudgery of keeping house and kids is the killer of desire. So, what can you change? Your routines, your appearance, your interests, your focus, your habits, take up hobbies, look after your health, get a cleaner, suggest date nights, spoil her, make her feel desired, dream together and make plans, give compliments and speak only when you have something positive to say. Get the house and kids into the sort of routine where very few discussions revolve around that. Make time for just you two, make time for her to take up new interests, and make time for yourself, so she looks forward to the time you spend together. Don't nag about sex. Sex or lack of is not the cause, of no sex. That's a circular argument. If nothing else, at least if you work on your self esteem, and build yourselves up both of you will be happy and fulfilled, even if eventually you conclude you want to walk away.

And one other thing, don't keep up the deep and meaningful soul searching, emotionally gut wrenching, pleading, begging, negative disclosure, laying your heart out discussions. It rarely works, and I say that as someone who has worked in therapeutic settings and done training in a specific type of counselling. Instead switch up, make positive changes, say life and esteem affirming things, inject positive energy into it.

Me and dh are having similar conversations at the moment our issues seem similar to yours. Sex is not as plentiful and I often feel like your wife (funnily though once I get going I do enjoy it) but I am often just too knackered. I also have a massive anxiety about getting pregnant again. We have 3 kids and I had crippling pnd on all 3 and I just don't think I would cope with another pregnancy. I lost my libido when I was anti-ds for the pnd and even though I am off them years (my youngest is 6) I have never really got it back. I can't take the pill because of blood pressure problems and I am scared the coil will effect my hormones again and trigger the pnd so I do think that has a major impact psychologically on my desire for sex.

What I will say is I still love my dh and do most of the time feel attracted to him but the day to day grind I think does effect the desire factor iykwim. I find it hard to get passionate when a few hours previous I was irritated with him for not unloading the dishwasher or helping get kids to bed or something similar. I think there is something to be said for the saying that foreplay for women starts that morning and how you relate to them all day.

The lack of affection you describe I think it is by-product for the lack of sex so maybe start on this getting back like hugging, kissing, holding hands etc and then once that is re-established I think the sex will follow. Be patient don't pressurise her because that can be quite stressful for the other person. I don't think separating for something like this helps anyone. You sound like a loving family who are having a disconnect at the moment but the fact that you are both willing to address it and go to counselling shows your relationship is definitely worth working at. I find people's advice to split up at the first bump in the road pretty pathetic. See what advice you can get online and start working through that while you wait for the sex counselling. Good luck and I need to start practicing a bit of what I preach!

OK - firstly stop arguing.
It solves nothing and just builds resentment.
If an argument starts just state that you don't want to argue and walk away - do NOT get drawn in.
Tell her you want a proper sit down discussion about the near future.
I really do think a trial separation would be a good thing for both of you.
See if you do actually miss each other.
I have a feeling your relationship has run it's course but a separation might help clarify things for both of you.
Who is the main carer for the DC?
Who ever does less childcare can move out for an agreed amount of time.
I would suggest 6 weeks. Put access plans in place before the separation.
See how that goes and take it from there.

we are in a similar situation.

we are going to try this book : www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/23/sex-red-hot-slower-sexual-experiences-climax-pleasure-sensation
we are also going to go to the cinema together once a week (luckily oldest is old enough to babysit).

I know that sounds fucking dull but nothing compared to last decade!!

You know, of "she's told me she's not attracted to me in that way and I'm a bit boring", maybe it's the last bit that's the main problem. Sounds like you have lost your mystery to her and she's just seeing you as a familiar part of the furniture rather than a potentially sexy man. She's so bored that she's not even making an effort to be pleasant to you - "you're boring" is not what you say to a friend, even.

Does she ever see you as a man that other people might admire - climbing a mountain, solving a problem, dancing in cool clothes, helping an old lady, cooking a fancy meal, making friends laugh, doing something independent? Do you sometimes feel like a man people might admire?

From what you say, though, if sex has never been big on her agenda, maybe you've never been very compatible in bed? Or has anything changed?

@MiniTheMinx You are spot on!

What she said ☝🏼

MinitheMinx--- great post. I thnk once we become part of the furniture , to some extent the desire often just ebbs away especially when combined with other stresses. Men it seems often want sex to 'help' with stress, whereas many women especially in long marriages dont feel that way unless not stressed. Having separate interests and plans and stuff to connect about independently can help

You need to talk to her, but if you can't do that without shouting, maybe you could email her, and tell her how you feel, and what you want in the future.
As her if she wants to continue as a couple.
Does she want to try to see if you can save anything of your relationship.
You need to think about what your going to do if one or both of you meet someone else, and if you can turn your marriage into a friendship in which both of you support the other without the disharmony your feeling right now.
Ask her how she sees the next few month, Xmas, and new year.
Also are you willing to share the children if you leave, and how you will finance things.
You don't need to send her the messages yet, but by writing it all down, sometimes it helps you work out a way forward.

MiniTheMinx** Excellent posts.

yetmorecrap, yes absolutely. Women know only too well that "he" is looking to have sex because it helps with stress, whilst its probably the last thing we need, and the pressure to meet someone's needs, creates more stress.

I also think, its not only women that settle into a sort of cosy complacency, men do it too. I keep reading on here about men with poor hygiene and bad breath, or putting on weight and not addressing health issues, or just mooching about grumping at everyone. OP, what are you going to do? Keep arguing and saying negative things? For every negative thing you say her attraction to you will be diminished. As you have discovered yourself, she called you boring, the effect was to turn you off her. Boring......digest that......are you? if you are boring you do yourself a disservice too!

Plus, its too easy to give up when it gets tough. And what you don't see is that in the very best relationships, they are only that good because a lot of work is being put in by both people.

Firstly, you’ve a safe secure family home with kids who seemed to be loved. Don’t break that up. You will regret it.
I firmly believe that each partner has a responsibility to the marriage. Physical sex is not the be all end all to a successful marriage. Honesty and communication are. If either partner is not willing to listen, discuss honestly and appreciate the other partners view/desires then it’s simply not fair. And vice Verda. From what you have said you’re wife is not doing this.

It’s up to you how you deal with this and it may very well be a case of just putting up with it and sucking it up.

No matter how much you love someone or want things to be different, there are times you’ve got to realise that you can’t influence or change the situation. Once you’ve made peace with that, you’ll learn to cope.

I’m not in favour of heading to the divorce courts in instances like this. I don’t think it helps the family and really that should be a priority for you both.

Some things to try: going on dates to do so things she likes. Having fun and being a "couple" together can help.

Hire some one to clean the house once a week or every other week. For a while, coming home to a shiny clean house really put me in the mood. I know it sounds crazy, but I was worn down with the never ending tasks of running the home. My dh made a joke about it with a friend once, and his friend said the exact same thing was true of his wife.

Last idea: if you've let your personal grooming or fitness slide, work on that. this is seldom the whole solution, but it doesn't hurt. . It can also cut down on fighting, just go for a run.

I think you still love your wife, you have withdrawn because you are hurt by her comments (and who wouldn't be)

Once a week sex is better than most and certainly fine for most busy families. You may fancy her in the mornings, but she is going to hate that with the dc about to wake up at any moment. I know I would.

I have a few suggestions for you:

Get the photo album out and look at your lives together, this never fails to pull at the heart strings and reminds you of everything you both have.

Remind yourself that you will lose every day contact with your children, family house and life as you know it if you don't make every effort to fix this. So do everything you can to save your marriage whilst you still can.

Suggest a hobby you can do together so that you are spending time being intimate and together without sex. It seems like this is a pressure to her

When you are feeling sexy, why not massage her, or gently kiss her with tenderness, have a bath together and do things differently. If she likes the lights off, respect that, light a small candle.

Don't expect her to be sexually adventurous when she is knackered and tired for much of the time, save those times for holidays and time when she is more recharged and feeling well.

Readjust your expectations of her. Look at her, talk to her, cuddle her when she is tired. It is not all about sex.

Ask her what you can do to be more interesting to her, maybe switch your wardrobe, get fit and show her there is still the spark there.

Go to a theme park just the two of you, start doing fun date nights I think you miss the lighthearted days when you could be carefree (but no one is carefree with young children if they are doing a proper job of parenting)

Try sex counselling, and if you can't find that in your area then pay for it. Maybe it will help...

Can you actually imagine leaving your young family just because your sex life isn't what it used to be, and your arguing? It is not much of a good reason in my book.

I would try everything to fix this. Your marriage is worth fighting for. Every marriage has its ups and downs, and sometimes you just need to ride it out and stand by your young family. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage.

Btw - marital satisfaction goes up when the children move out. Many many couples fall apart before then, but if you can make it through raising kids together, then relationships really do get better and easier after awhile. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I could say a lot about some of the responses on this thread but I don't think it's beneficial to get into arguments about it.

My only advice is to try and be happy in yourself. I don't know whether it's true of you but it is very easy to get lost in the day to day life of work and family. Think about what you want out of life. If you're more content in yourself as a person then whatever happens you're going to be better for it.

'did you mean to be so hurtful when you called me boring and said you weren't attracted to me anymore? that was a horrible thing to say and has really hurt me and made me question why we are together. it sounds like you are saying you don't want to be together - take a week to think about it and then we need to talk about how we are going to move forward'.

then get busy, do things, take care of yourself (obviously your responsibilities to the children too) and get on with your life positively. spell it out clearly and with a backbone and then let her think about it whilst you don't mention it for that week and go about your life positively.

that would be my advice.

After several years of marriage, Angelina Jolie found her husband to be boorish, boring, mundane and sexually unattractive.... Because he wasn't exactly Brad Pitt.....

Hmmm..... Except he was.

If you are married / in a relationship and you are both sexually compatible, then you are very lucky, whether you are a pair of nymphos or asexual....

I don't care what most men say, most women do the bulk of the childcare, housework, shopping, and many also work full time and their absolute desire is not Brad Pitt but a hot, soapy bath, ( When did you last run your wife one !? ), and a good nights undisturbed sleep, without a boner prodding her back which belongs to a nagger....

Don't mean to be harsh......

But I'm being harsh.......

Minx nailed it.....

Here, I think, are your options:

1.) Stop arguing and except the status quo. Work to improve the situation by being patient, caring, loving and biting your tongue......

2.) Divorce, so you can find that elusive nymph whilst ripping your kids lives apart.....

3.) Take a lover, but be careful your wife doesn't take one......

4.) visit prostitutes and fulfil your desires..... But ensure you don't infect your wife with an STD

5.) counselling, talk it through with an expert, together or by yourself..... Build on what seemed a brilliant relationship, previously, instead of tearing it down.....

Your wife sounds like a fabulous lady.......

You are treating her like shit !!!!!

( Damn, being harsh, again )

May I have her number !?

Can you stick the marriage out until the kids are grown up? My FIL told me that marriage was hard work, I figure mismatched sex drives is what he was talking about!