grown apart - blokes point of view

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First post here and I am a bloke so apologies in advance...

Both mid 40s Married 16 years with 3 kids all over 7

I've just come to the conclusion that my wife is no longer attracted to me. She likes me (when we're not arguing) as a friend, a partner, a house mate. She says I'm a good husband and a good dad. We do work quite well together with the kids, the money, school runs, you know the day to day functioning of a family. No money worries, no problems with kids, no one else involved. A month ago I concluded that she no longer fancies me and since then we've struggled to speak to each other without arguing. Ironically this all came about immediately after a brilliant no expense spared family holiday. After 2 weeks in France we got home maybe midnight and had a lazy Sunday morning laughing about the holiday which then went on to me telling her how hot she looked with her suntan etc. The kids were clearly zonked out for hours and I guess I was getting a bit amorous. Sex has never been too plentiful (my view not hers) but her reaction was along the lines of "what the hell's wrong with you? Its bloody morning time and you had it twice on holiday". Her view is that more than once a week is abnormal. We argued about this. And then we realised that it was always me that initiated intimacy, it was always a bit of a chore to get over and done with, its never adventurous, always lights off, there was often a thousand excuses, and lots of maybe tomorrow if you are a good boy. It's not the actual lack of sex that's my problem, it's the stuff that goes with it, the fun, the excitement, the closeness. So we've been to Relate and we need sex counselling but it's not clear at the mo if any is available in our area. The thing is she's told me she's not attracted to me in that way and I'm a bit boring. Since she's said that I've suddenly lost all interest in her as well. Its a month now without even talking except to argue and every time we talk we seem to say things that makes it harder to back track. It's 1 am at the moment and I'm awake thinking so I thought why don't I just talk to some complete strangers.

He's giving his wife compliments and saying that he misses the sex because of the fun and closeness. She says he's a good husband and dad, but then calls him "boring". How is that him treating her like shit?

How dare the OP want to be with someone who fancies him. Totally unreasonable. But it's ok, sorting out the housework and a nice bath will make things all ok again.

**serialcheat, you did make me laugh, in a good way

Because the 'advice' was so ridiculous Chocolaterainbows?

whatsthecomingoverthehill, yes because it was crazy!!! loved the bit about having her number x

@whatsthecomingoverthehill It's perfectly reasonable to want to be with someone who fancies you, and I do think that wives who act like having sex with their spouse is a chore are idiots, BUT sometimes the fix isn't something extreme.

Men wanting sex more often than their wives is a super common problem on both sides of the Atlantic. If every couple who went through it divorced, no one would stay married.

I know that my advice might have sounded trite, but it might work (it's worked for other couples) and is sure worth trying before getting a divorce and wrecking every one's life.

1. Couples who have fun together are much more likely to stay together and have a happy relationship. It's tough with kids, but now that they are getting older, it can happen. Recreate together. Find a hobby, see a movie, take dance lessons. Anything. Just have fun (in a way your spouse thinks is fun).

1. I've told women who don't want to have sex as often as their DH about the housekeeper phenomena, and they find it intriguing. A woman raising a bunch of kids is busy and never done, and sex can easily seem like just one more thing to do. Hiring help (even a couple of times a month) takes a lot off.

1. Many men get sloppy about themselves after marriage and children, hence the "dad bod." I've no idea what the OPer's situation is, but may be he needs to lose 3 stone. May be actually wearing the after shave she gave him last year for Christmas would help. I don't know, but I think it's something he should consider.

Sometimes men (both American and British) get into this thing where they want to have sex, and their wife is the only person they can have sex with without it causing a melt down in their lives, so they want her to have sex with them. That's just not a turn on for any woman.

Some men need to date their wives, groom for their wives, and seduce their wives.

And if all that falls, at least you'll be in shape for dating someone else. But it really, really is worth trying to work through the problem first.

Agree wholeheartedly with Minx. Naturally overtime, people in a relationship grow complacent, too cosy, too .... boring. It is great to be able to rely on your partner, always there for you, your children, your home. But what about them as a person? What are they getting that’s just for them? Not house-related, not kids-related or partner-related. Us women, tend to put ourselves last after everybody else until one day you wake up and think what has happened to me? Have I got any life for myself? What am I doing to make me happy and fulfilled, feeling good in my skin, rather than just being a reliable service provider for others?

Follow excellent advice from Minx. Make your wife feel special again, not like a wife and a mother, she’s got that covered, but make her feel a beautiful smart woman that she is. In response, your wife would do well to look at you with a fresh glance and try and bring out the special person in you she fell in love with.

If people continue to treat each other like a reliable fixture in their lives, there is only more boredom to come. Nobody likes being taken for granted and having their needs ignored as an individual. Try to connect outside the bedroom first and see what happens. For a woman it is always a connection first, sex to follow.

Wishing you best of luck, you have got such a lovely family and a good partner

Totally disagree that divorce wrecks peoples lives - this is an absolute statement therefore true in some cases and false in others. . It's also insulting to those, like me, who couldn't make it work but have put their heart and soul into protecting their children's relationship with the other parent, who is a lazy, selfish fucker.

Whatever the issue, it will not get any better without some serious committment to communicate, listen and share by both parties.

OP talk to your wife, tell her how you feel. Don't be passive-aggressive (like my ex) and expect her to decode/translate what you are feeling.

Its a partnership after all - two sides of equal value bringing their own uniqueness to the marriage.

I put on weight as a result of being sexually rejected (due to deep-seated resentment on his part and massive stresses for me). So, I guess that was my fault according to some pp's?? Getting the 'spark' back is elusive and often needs outside factors to support it, such as funds to date, have holidays, nice home etc.

Coyote, the problem isn't one of differing sex drives and tiredness meaning his wife doesn't feel like it. She doesn't fancy him at all, doesn't want sex with him at all. That's what she's told him.

Talking about seducing her and so on is only likely to lead to more heartbreak and disappointment.

Looking after himself is a good idea whatever. It is not a good idea to lose weight in the hope of being more attractive to your partner (with the exception of if your partner has said this is an issue for them). Enjoying life for its own sake is good. But doing it in the hope that she will suddenly see the light is not. He shouldn't be thinking about what he can do for her, but what he can do for himself. Who knows, that might actually show her what she fell in love with. But falling over backwards doing stuff for her is only likely to reek of desperation which is never attractive.

too often i hear of sex being used as a weapon - dont make it so for your family OP

He only realized a month ago there was a problem at all, and it seems like a lot of things are fine. So far, all he has tried is fighting with her, which never works.

I agree that finding his own happiness and doing things he enjoys is a great idea. It won't save his marriage though. Many women complain about the time their DH spend on hobbies.

Other than that, there really isn't anything to do but separate finances and agree to child sharing schedule. I seriously doubt that's what any of them want, and I think it is very premature after 1 month of realizing there is a problem.

good point Coyote and one i had missed - that its a recent thing.

face it head on OP

They've been to counselling already. And all that's come from it is that she doesn't fancy him and thinks he is boring. So many of the responses on here are about what he can 'do'. But he can't force the issue. Either she changes her mind or doesn't. And he can hang around to see if she does or not if he wants to. It sounds to me like he wants to try and make it work but it has got to come from her.

He should be doing a fair amount of housework/kids etc. Not to try and make her like him but because it's the right thing to do. Running baths for her and attempts at affection will be seen as desperate. It is not the same situation as someone being run down a bit but essentially still fancying their partner where such things will be met with gratitude rather than suspicion.

serialcheat
3.) Take a lover, but be careful your wife doesn't take one......

4.) visit prostitutes and fulfil your desires..... But ensure you don't infect your wife with an STD

And in a nutshell, why we no longer see men as being as desirable, when we discover what they really feel entitled to in life. Cause this wouldn't be treating her badly, would it?
(Seriously, why do I bite at the gf posts?)

serialcheat
3.) Take a lover, but be careful your wife doesn't take one..

Why cant she have one? Oh i get it. You think all women dont want sex as much as men.

You are one of THOSE!!!!!!

I haven't read the replies but you sound like you have a lovely relationship . For me a lovely massage and feeling treasured and appreciated makes all the difference. So what if it's 2 times a month . I think as relationships go on then that's okay ?

Why do males care about nothing but sex?

You need to put more effort in, much more effort. It's totally understandable that your wife would call you boring if sex is all you care about. Let me guess, she does 99.9% of the everyday domestic work?

Helena

You obviously missed the nuances and irony in my post.....

There is only one realistic, ethical, moral and adult option, and that's number 5

To discuss it as a couple or alone with a mediator, and try and find some common ground.... Or not.
It may fix it or break it ( The relationship ), but it's the most adult way of dealing with it, the wider relationship, the kids, money, etc

I'd love to know the range of options the ops wife has proposed !?

I missed the part where they tried counseling. I'm confused how they could have realized there was a problem one month ago, started counseling, and exhausted marital counseling as a way to revive their relationship. All in one month.

Any way, most people want and expect a lovely sex life to be part of marriage. When one partner goes off sex, it has a destructive impact on a relationship, no matter the gender. (Though it does tend to be women who are more likely to decide that sex is a ridiculous thing for a spouse to want). Men tend to be shamed, though, for thinking sex ought to be part of marriage. Women whose husbands go off sex get sympathy and told their husbands are horrible.

Anyway, It's typical for the man whose wife has zero interests in sex to eventually find some one else who likes that he's a man and loves having sex with him, and the wife to feel like a victim because he betrayed the vows blah blah blah. A few threads like that on this board -- very angry women who don't want to talk about what the marriage was like before the affair, just want to be angry that he cheated.

So I don't know what the answer is for our OP. I think trying to get the spark back and working at his marriage is his best bet. After that, I think it would show more character to leave than to stay, but it is very hard for men to walk away from their children.

It really isn't fair to men at all. When a marriage falls apart, we women have an advantage in that we keep our children in a way that men usually don't.

My advice might seem trite to some of you, but it comes from watching the absolute misery that some of my dh's friends have been through.

Only read part of the original post....if you argued with me about sex...I would dry up and never want you again.

Would you react the way the OP's wife did 4side?

After 2 weeks in France we got home maybe midnight and had a lazy Sunday morning laughing about the holiday which then went on to me telling her how hot she looked with her suntan etc. The kids were clearly zonked out for hours and I guess I was getting a bit amorous. Sex has never been too plentiful (my view not hers) but her reaction was along the lines of "what the hell's wrong with you? Its bloody morning time and you had it twice on holiday".

ok you are probably long gone OP but one disservice we women sometimes do to ourselves is to exaggerate how much we enjoy sex with our partners because we are polite, because we are people pleasers sometimes and because we dont' want to hurt their feelings. that can develop into instead of saying actually i'm not enjoying this, could we try x, please could do y, please could you spend more time on z we just totally lose drive for sex. i'mu not talking faking orgasms though some do just not voicing disatisfaction and making out it's all good.

if you get to the stage of not arguing and talking i'd consider asking what you could do to make sex more enjoyable for her - what she misses or wishes she got more of - and a plea for openness. most of us male or female want to enjoy our bodies, want to feel desire and enjoy pleasure, we don't just decide we don't want sex anymore but presumably the sex feels like a chore rather than a source of deep pleasure and recharge for us. the focus on how to make it pleasurable would allow it to become something we want rather than feel obliged to do.

i'm curious whether when men say 'she doesn't want sex anymore' have they actually tried just going down on her with zero expectations of sex and purely to give her pleasure and then say love you gorgeous and go off and make a cup of tea or whatever? not saying this should be the mainstay of a sexual relationship but sure a good way to let a woman reawaken her sex drive and pleasure in her own body without feeling pressured or like it is done for any reason other than loving her and wanting her to feel good.

sorry if that is too much info.

If you want more sex you need to be more attractive. If you are not attractive to women in general you are not attractive to your wife. The usual crap advice about washing the dishes gets trotted out here time and again, but nowhere in the history of the universe did the fact that a man washes the dishes get a woman aroused. The simple answer to this is focus less on your wife and more on yourself and self improvement, whether that's getting in shape, expanding your horizons, gaining new skills or building a bigger network of relationships in your life, which is a plan that quite frankly can't go wrong as either:

a) it doesn't fix your relationship and you split up, but your self-improvement leaves you in a better place for your future.

b) it fixes your relationship and you've also improved your life as a by-product

c) it gives you more options for relationships other than with your wife and you realise there's someone who can make you happier out there