Is husband an alcoholic?

[Devonsea]

I'm having to post as have nobody to talk to. Everyone (friends, family, random strangers etc) thinks my husband is hilarious and lovely. He is the life and soul of everywhere we go, but to me he's a bloody nightmare!
He drinks every day and at least 4 times a week he drinks until he slurs his words and passes out drunk.
He also has to get so pissed and 'funny'/ insulting that whenever we are out that people actually look at me with pity whilst still enjoying the 'dickhead show'.
Tonight after a lovely family day he disappeared to the pub without telling me and refused to answer his phone or reply to texts when I was asking where he was. I was genuinely worried he may have been hit by a car whilst stumbling around drunk. When he did turn up at home 2 hours later he had a go at me for ringing so many times! Is he being selfish or am I being a nagging wife? I actually dread social occasions with him and feel so much more relaxed if I'm out on my own, is this normal?? He holds down a good job and doesn't seem to have hangovers but he's a different person after a drink. I only like the sober side. He's also a brilliant dad to our 4 kids. So, do I leave after 20 years of my life with him or am I overreacting?

I grew up with alcoholic parents and in particular my dad and trust me when I say it's no fun.

It's taken me over 30 years to see just how dysfunctional it was and it's also taken me that long to realise that he will never change. Even being told he will die if he drinks again after numerous close calls hasn't stopped him drinking. Even loosing contact with his children and grandchildren hasn't stopped him drinking.

The worst part is though the manipulation, lies and self serving behaviour - no one else matters to an addict and so you and your dc will never be more important than the next drink.

I know this doesn't really answer your question but I wanted to share my experience. Good luck with whatever you do xx

So, I gave the ultimatum back then in September and for a few weeks there was zero alcohol. It slowly came back and is now back with a vengeance! At least A bottle of wine and a few beers every night with accompanying erratic and unreasonable behaviour.. and stupid old me still sat here lonely and putting a brace face on. There's millions of people worse off than me, I'm not after pity.

I didn't see your original post, but you are in such a difficult position; I'm so sorry. I can understand why you gave him an ultimatum in September; it doesn't make you stupid to have offered him a last chance after all those years together. But now, do you think you have enough evidence that he will never change to give you the strength to leave? Do you have people you can talk to about this in real life?

Also, did he seek professional help back in September? It would be almost impossible (statistically extremely unlikely) for him to manage to give up long-term without that; and more importantly, if he didn't get help then, that does rather imply he doesn't take the issue seriously and could be in denial about it. In any case, it sounds impossibly hard for you I really think you and your children would be better off if you were to separate from him.

Sorry, finally, I just wanted to add something to my comment "after all those years together". What I meant is, I understand why you would want to give him that chance. But, I do recommend looking up the sunk cost fallacy mentioned by Attila, if you haven't already.

He is an alcoholic, definitely, but over 50% of UK adult males are!
Do a dry January with him and that may help!

@Devonsea, I am so sorry you are going through this. I'm a healthcare professional and a recovering alcoholic with 23 years of sobriety. RhymingCrickets is exactly right, this is not something he can do on his own. Alcoholism is a progressive disease that actually alters neurochemistry in the brain.

The Molecular Basis of Alcoholism

Neurochemical mechanisms of alcohol withdrawal

This is why alcoholics experience cravings to drink and extreme discomfort when they try to stop. Alcohol withdrawal is dangerous and difficult enough that it should be medically supervised in severe cases and there are medications that can ease the withdrawal symptoms.

I agree with others, you may well be better off separating if you can't convince him to seek help. He can start with his GP, but he has to want to. He'll also need a support group like AA. It's a physical and psychological disease that's highly treatment resistant, but it can be put into remission. If you know his GP give them a call to discuss it if only to make them aware of the problem.

In your shoes, I'd tell him you can't be with him unless he faces up to the problem and gets competent help, then follow through if need be.

I think you probably have to go through these steps in order to get real clarity of your situation and to know you can’t actually do anything. It is so difficult to believe that you can’t actually do anything. People telling you how it is will not help, you have to walk the well worn path yourself as a partner of an alcoholic/alcohol dependent person/whatever label we want to put on it.
So don’t beat yourself up that you issued the ultimatum and here you are, lonely. You tried. Not your fault it hasn’t worked. Put it away as best you can until January and then reach out for as much support for yourself as you can get.
There are channels on YouTube about being partners of alcoholics. There was one I was watching recently called Grace Chatting. I have only watched the first 3 or 4, but you may get something from her. There will surely be books(?). I have also listened to podcasts, but they are more for alcoholic s than the partners. I found it interesting nonetheless, it does make me respect the huge mountain it is to climb for alcoholics. Although it seems self-awareness seems to be the biggest.
Get your financials sorted too.
Get out and do things to bolster your self-esteem and strengthen friendships away from your dh.

Devonsea You are not stupid. You gave the ultimatum for a good reason and it is only human to give people a chance.

There may well be millions of people worse off than you, but only you have to live your life and your particular set of circumstances. If you decide you've had enough that is perfectly reasonable.

Sometimes alcohol can be like the other woman in a relationship. No matter what you do your partner will choose alcohol over your relationship. That is why a lot of the advice that pertains to affairs applies to your situation. Alcoholism thrives on secrecy just like an affair. You can only be responsible for your choices and not for him.

Devonsea

What do you get out of this relationship now, what is still in this for you?.

There are indeed people worse off that you but being in this is pretty crap for you and for your DC who are seeing and hearing perhaps far more than you care to realise.

You issued an ultimatum (those can only be issued once, repeating them lose all their power otherwise) and not altogether surprisingly he is back on the drink with a vengeance. It was not going to ever go the way you expected. His primary relationship is with drink and his next thoughts centre on where the next drink is going to come from.

Ultimately you need to get off the merry go around that is alcoholism. Its not also called the family disease for nothing. Your own recovery from your H's alcoholism will only start when you remove and otherwise detach yourself from the situation you are in.

You are still as caught up in his alcoholism as ever and sadly your DC are seeing this all from the two of you as well. I sincerely hope that none of them go onto choose alcoholics as partners themselves but there is a real chance that they could do so. You are showing your DC that currently at least this is still acceptable to you. Being stuck on the sunken costs fallacy and your own co-dependency keeps you still within this at great cost to yourself and in turn your DC who are also learning from the two of you about relationships.

Al-anon are a great resource for you and I would suggest you contact them asap if you have not already done so.

Devon - you are smart and beginning to see the truth of whats actually going on and that takes great strength. So many people hide in denial.

You came back to the thread to update us and that takes strength too. I like that about you. I know you are doing the best you can in these circumstances.

There is no need to decide to leave - from personal experience of Al-anon. [and going to that first meeting was the hardest thing I've ever done] Al-anon recommend that you don't make any decisions in the first 6 months.

When you are ready you will know what to do and your path will be clear.

Remember your family situation is created by choices he makes which are totally his responsibility.

We are kept in the position of enabler by the fear of shame of others finding out but this shame doesn't belong to us and we can find the strength to move away from it's shadow.

So did you talk to al-anon? You’re not stupid. I too was in your position, and the problem is that it is an addiction. It is very hard for him to control it. You can’t control it for him, so why would you be stupid?

What you can do though is control your own life and as much as possible that if your children. If the eldest is 11 now, it won’t be long until they are not tucked up at 8pm. Please use this time to plan how your life will be. It’s not about an ultimatum really, it’s about saying to him “I cannot live like this and it’s not good for the dcs”. If he chooses to change nothing then it’s over tonyou to make the necessary changes

I feel sad because I know just how you feel; my ex promised change so many times- but would always go back to the drink. Nothing changed until we split up. He took responsibility for the first time. By that stage of course I wanted to split up not to “cure” him, but because I wanted my life and the lives of our children to be simpler. I read quite a lot about alcoholism and how it causes victim mentality and also about enabling. The website “sober recovery” helped me too, it has a section of the form for friends and family.
Finally, the most significant change that I made was to be honest with friends and family about some of the problems. That liberated me and gave me the strength to change things. When we are ashamed of what’s going on we treat it as our secret- but it’s not a secret, it doesn’t have to be. Good luck.

Thanks everyone again for the support, your advice is s really helpful.
I never did go to Al-anon, I nearly went but then he stopped drinking for a while so I felt some hope that everything would be ok. I know I need some support now.
I don't think I understand alcohol as a disease yet, I went through his phone last night in the hope of finding evidence of an affair or something big that I could justify leaving him.. how messed up is that?!

I feel sorry for him when he's sober and hate him when he's drunk. And what if he's not got a problem and It's me that needs to lighten up? What if I've blown it out of proportion and he's not that bad? Who decides when alcohol is problem or if we just aren't suited anymore?

Devonsea

What you write is pretty messed up and part of the dysfunctional dynamic that you find yourself in. He DOES have a problem and you need to detach. I would think your friends look at you with a mix of pity and bemusement.

You are still very much a part of this overall dysfunctional dynamic and have not as yet started your own recovery from his alcoholism. Until you decide for yourself that enough is indeed enough you and your children will be continued to be affected by his alcoholism. Its really not called the family disease for nothing and I note without much surprise that you grew up with this also.

You need to do all that Squeegle wrote of in her last two paragraphs i.e. read about alcoholism and your part in this overall dynamic. You really do need to get off the merry go around that is alcoholism and you are affected by this as much as he is albeit in different ways. You enable him and you're mired in codependency.

I would urge you to attend Al-anon meetings; you need outside support also.

This is going to be painful for you to read but you need to read this. Its from sober recovery and is describing the 3 act play that is alcoholism:-

www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/68440-alcoholism-tragic-three-act-play-there-least-4-characters-1-a.html

Devonsea I know exactly how you feel. But the thing with an ultimatum is that it's meaningless if you don't follow it through.

My H completed rehab and went back to drinking a mere two weeks later. So I followed through - the divorce petition is with the court and he is moving out soon after Christmas. There have to be consequences.

You are probably not ready to take these steps - that is why you need to go to Al-Anon. They will help you set boundaries and learn 'detached love', where you learn to look after yourself first. It's really important to get support to find the inner strength to move on - for you, and for him too,

Good luck.

Over a bottle of wine a night. Well over 70 units a week
Of course he has a problem.
You gave an ultimatum. So now what?

I don't think I understand alcohol as a disease yet

It is a bit counter-intuitive, given that the alcoholic has some control over his behavior. But addiction is a disease - it has a characteristic set of symptoms, gets progressively worse and increases morbidity and mortality. As the links I posted above show, it's now understood at the molecular level.

This may help:

www.dualdiagnosis.org/alcohol-addiction/disease-theory-alcoholism/

By the way, he never stopped drinking. He merely cut back a bit and was very careful to conceal his drinking. He's not capable of stopping on his own at this point. And do get to al-anon, as others have suggested.

Thank you again, I've never felt so alone. I will get help after Xmas, I can't live like this. For now I've got to put on a fake smile and make Christmas nice for the kids.

Get through Christmas, realise that it has to change. I know it takes a while, I get it- it took me about 5 years!!!

And now of course I look back and see a wasted 5 years where things got worse, I got “let down” again and again- and actually it wasn’t good for the DCs. I wanted to trust him- but one big lesson is you can’t trust anyone with an addiction- the alcohol will always come first, the pull and the craving is far stronger than even a person’s own children.

Good, and I understand about Christmas and the kids. Feel free to PM me if you like.

He’s a functioning alcoholic

With time that will likely deteriorate in to a non functioning alcoholic unless he does something about it.

Devon, I wish you all the best in getting through Christmas. I also recognise the patterns of behaviour you describe,having been married to an alcoholic for many years.

My husband died as a result of alcoholism over 6 years ago. I was posting messages similar to yours on these forums even then and, while it was difficult to hear at the time, the words of people like Attila were spot on. Attila's comment to you about not having yet begun your own recovery from alcoholism really struck a chord with me. It has taken me years to recover because of the impact that the lying and associated emotional abuse had.

Fast forward to now, I am very happy. I have a lovely man in my life, and it was only on meeting him a couple of years ago at i I reaslised how damaged I still was, and how little I understood what a functional relationship should look like. He's - unconsciously - shown me the way with this and I am so much more 'recovered' than ever.

That said, I was only remembering this morning how it felt for several Christmas and New Years. Thinking at the start of January that I couldn't go through another year like the last, and then doing exactly that because I couldn't see a way out. Please don't fall into this trap - by next Christmas you could be in a much happier place.

Squeegle I wasted years on mine too. I should have stepped away emotionally when I found out he was drinking secretly on top of what he was drinking openly - think carrying bottles of booze in his work backpack and probably 'topping up' at work too. But I didn't. That was in 2015. I wasted 2 more years before cutting myself loose.

It hasn't been good for my DDs either. I'm not going to beat myself up over that though - I'm just going to push on with the move and the divorce and work on recovery for myself and my DDs.

Devon I'm glad that you have started formulating a plan. Stay on this thread, there are so many of us who have been there or are going through it who can help.

Thinking of you OP. Get through Christmas and then plan and prepare. You can't control his drinking but you can choose your response. This could be the last Christmas defined by his drinking.

But Squeegle and Pointy, those were not wasted years they were necessary years in your journey. You had to reach your 'bottom' in the same way as an addict does and at your own time, be glad and proud you did.