Question about wills/DHs money

[MyPatronusIsABadger]

Hi, just looking for any points of view really.

DH has cancer that won't be cured, seeing as this is a money/relationship WWYD I thought I'd put it here instead of in another section of mumsnet.

DH doesn't have life or critical illness insurance. He had been too Ill to get it so now that he has cancer I'll just need to pay off the mortgage or sort something out. Luckily/sadly we have no DCs.

DH does have death in service at 3 times his salary which will be paid in full when he passes (hopefully longer than a year away which was prognoses before chemo). DH has been talking about wills and wants to leave over 10% of death in service to our friends/neighbour who we've had over to dinner a few times. They are so lovely, really chatty and generally nice people. Wife can't work due to disability and husband is full time carer/they have 3 kids.

However DH talking about giving away money is actually upsetting me. I'll have to get back to working/paying bills when all I'll want to do is curl up and cry. I've not said this as it sounds selfish as just under 90% will come to me. It's not about money, I don't know what it's about but it's hurting me so much. Is this nor all? That's all the money there is, I'm 32 and we got our house 2 years ago.

Please give me a shake or tell me about provisions you've made, I know I'm burying my head in the sand but I don't want to be upset over moneys to a time like this.

But his death is also about her to some extent. She is about to lose her husband, be devastated, have significant expenses etc. It is utterly reasonable for her to need to talk about this. I think he also needs help articulating what he really wants to do with his stuff/money. It seems to me like he is hoping to make some sort of impact - not realising that his biggest impact will probably be to his wife's life and in her memory. I don't think he is being selfish or inconsiderate in the least but neither is the OP. I think a hospice team would really help this couple talk more openly and helpfully about his end of life.

you begrudge him sharing a tiny portion of his hard earned wealth with people he is fond of?
you don't want him giving anything of his away to others - unless it has no use for you?
i think your grief is making you say some very selfish things.

You will still get his death in service and pensions/savings after he's gone.
You would still have your own income.
If finances are tight you would have to downsize and live accordingly.
That's the reality of life.

I'm sure his family/friends would also love to have some keepsakes from him, things that mean something to them.
I'm sure he's thinking hard about what to give and to who.
Have you had any counselling - either alone or together?
Contact MacMillan, they are awesome with helping work through end of life issues like this.
You're basically grieving before the fact, which is completely normal but also extremely hard to deal with on your own.

To the poster who asked if the cancer had spread to his brain.....that's a disgusting comment to make!
His consultants would be the first to know if he lacked capacity in any sense!

No the consultant wouldn't be the first to know if something changed in his personality, those closest to him would.

How much time out of work will the lovely neighbours need to care for him, watch him die and then pick up the shreds of their life at the other end of this?

The op has a huge mountain to climb and a long way to fall at the end of this. I lost my career when my first husband died. I was a nurse specialist, I dropped my grade as I couldn't cope with that role and left nursing eventually as I couldn't continue to separate what I'd been through from my job.

I didn't get any money of significance on his death but maybe if I had I could have taken more time. I may still have left nursing, but at least if I'd had more time before I went back I may have been better able to cope.

the consultant does the diagnosing - not the family....

Where do you think consultants get a huge portion of their information from?

I feel awful for saying this, but I assume your lovely neighbours live on benefits. Them having a windfall could affect what they claim and spending it on a holiday or car could be judged as deprivation of assets. Just something to keep in mind as it could cause them a lot of hassle.

I would suggest to him that he instead leaves a list of "wishes" instead of putting it in his Will. He needs to trust that you would do what is right, when the time is right. Instead of money (affecting benefits as mentioned above) you could receive the funds and let them know that this was one of his wishes. The best idea (and less risk to benefits imo) would be a holiday somewhere, or things for their kids (if they have them), or buying their groceries for a month or something.

Do you have Power of Attorney? What if he decides to give away more if his mental health deteriorates?

Sorry to hear of your Brother's passing too. It must be so difficult for you without needing these difficult conversations on top.

People are so different when it comes to money and playing out their wishes. I dread the day when our elders pass, not
Only because they're dear to us, but because in numerous cases their wills are unclear and could well cause upset within the family.

It's totally his choice, but he's proposing to give away something like £10,000 - £13,000 to a 'pleasant' neighbour for a holiday. That's a lot of money! Lucky neighbour that's all I can say.

He's trying to be kind but he's actually being quite selfish and he needs to be told that. He wants people to think nice things about him after he's gone and that's entirely understandable but it doesn't mean he needs to give your neighbours £10,000! If he wants to give them a holiday, you can get a two night break with dinner for £99 on buyagift.com ffs! You're his wife and you will need the money when he's gone. You need to tell him that. It's not mercenary, it's practical.

I would suggest to him that he instead leaves a list of "wishes" instead of putting it in his Will

No matter how bonkers it is to leave thousands of pounds to a neighbour, leaving intentions out of someone's Will means those wishes have no standing in law. It shouldn't be left to chance that the people left behind enact "wishes" or have to make choices or judgements about what to do.

Hi OP I do some work in this area, sorry to hear about your circumstances and apologies if the following sounds a bit hard, just stating the position

He probably does not need to make a will if you have no children as all his assets will go to you anyway

The death benefit nomination is only a nomination to the trustee to grants the benefit. Just because your DH puts 10% to a neighbour does not mean said neighbour will receive this amount. The trustee decides where to allocate the money using the nomination as a guide. If there is financial need demonstrated following the death (the trustee's administrators will write to you for details of dependants and any will) the allocation is likely to go to you rather than the neighbour. If they think you have enough to manage on then the 10% may go the neighbour. Hard to say what any particular trustee might do

As someone has alluded to earlier there is such a thing as serious ill health lump sum. The other bits and pieces of pensions he has can normally be paid out early tax free which might help in his final months. They don't need to be transferred to do this, just contact the provider.

There has to be evidence from his consultant that his life expectancy is less than 12 months for this type of lump sum. You said above he was not quite at that stage, so once he is he can ask the consultant to write him a letter. This is a frequent request for this type of consultant

Can he speak to his HR department about ill health options as well, as sometimes under public sector pensions it is more financially beneficial to take a tier one ill health award than a death in service award.

Death in service nominations are not legally binding. The trustees have the decision to make so it can be challenged. If they felt it was leaving you in a vulnerable position then they could decide to pay it all to you.

However what are we talking about money wise? Assume he earns £30k a year. It is £9k of his overall £90k with you getting £81k. You will also get a spouses pension. You should also be able to claim something for bereavement. Depending on date of death there could also be a tax rebate. Harsh to hear but it is the reality.

If it is what he really wants and it makes him happy in his last months then perhaps it is one to just accept. Whilst the money could be used to repay the mortgage or some of it, it doesn't have to be used for that so you won't be financially broke and have to go back to work straight away.

Has your husband updated his pension paperwork to reflect the 10% he's proposing to give to the neighbours? Has he nominated you as the beneficiary of his various pensions?

If he hasn't written to the Civil Service pension people about the 10%, it will go to to. He has to send a form in to have anything to directly to them. I've just updated mine, so I know the process.

In respect of early medical pension, it can be done. A lovely colleague of mine took early retirement last year in similar circumstances, however it will of course mean no death in service grant.

I sorry you're both going through this, I can't imagine it.

The poor man is dying and is looking around for things which give him some pleasure in the last year or so of his life. Choosing who gets some of his possessions and giving some money to a struggling family are things which clearly give him pleasure. Why try and thwart that?

Stonecircle he's not putting his bereaved wife top of his list of priorities is he?
When he's gone she's the one left behind picking up the pieces. And it's all well and good being generous but she's the one that will have to go back to work early as she can't afford to stay at home and grieve.

For those saying the consultant would know first if there was something wrong with his mental capacity I can categorically say that is not true.

My DF has terminal cancer and his mental capacity has dropped like a stone in the last couple of weeks but the medical team have only just acknowledged that yesterday, despite numerous conversations with them. They have been concentrating on other aspects of his health.

I am so sorry you are going through this OP

Fish face - of course he is. But he doesn't have to make everything 100% for his wife's benefit does he? Isn't he allowed to do something that makes him happy in the little time he has left?

thank you for your replies.

We don't have a financial advisor, but I think it may be good if we get one. DH doesn't want to talk to Macmillan etc but I've emailed them so I can do it without him if need be.

I really don't want to be selfish, and I know DH isn't. However we sometimes do things differently e.g. I get a bonus and put into the household pot to share, DH gets a bonus and gift me something but uses it. So I guess part of me was thinking..."if you want to give the neighbour money why don't we do it while we have 2 wages, instead of then?" But I found it really useful getting all of the different points of views. I said earlier I don't WANT to be selfish, but I do think I'm naturally more selfish than DH and do have those tendencies which are awful and I try to work on.

We do go to church so I'm not sure if DH wants to share money for tithing reasons. I will speak to him about that, as if it was for that reason we would do that to make him happy. We don't tithe but do shops for the food bank and have charities we give direct debits to, so it would be no problem money wise if he wanted to give more (although I do think he doesn't always think things through and realise the money would have to come from our personal fun/holiday money pot)

When we spoke yesterday he did say he felt that good people don't get a break and I know that's what he's wanting to do for the neighbours. He is sad because he doesn't talk to his family as they are on drugs/kids removed etc and have stolen from us or keep having children when we went through unsuccessful fertility treatment, saved up, bought a house and try to be part of the community/volunteer etc. I do get what he's saying and he's trying to fix that balance in a small way.

He also understands that I'm upset because I feel hes giving special things to people and I felt like I was being left with 'what was left' instead of him finding a special thing for me. Even if it was a stone from a walk we went on that he'd kept, I just wanted him to say he loved it because of me, and he loved me. I really didn't want it to come across as me putting post-its on stuff I wanted to grab at.

No I don't believe dying gives you automatic rights to make yourself happy at the expense of your husband or wife's grief. And yes he should be making the effort to ease his wife's way after his death and if that's 100% then so be it.
She's the one that will be left behind. The neighbours will move on.
op.

I think it's definitely worth one of you speaking to Macmillan, especially if DH has a terminal illness. He might be able to make claims for some benefits under 'special rules'.

OP, just to mention you should be careful with any pensions decisions you make to consider the spouse's pension you will get after your DH passes. Some options will affect this and others won't, make sure to get this information before making any decisions.

You may well receive a very generous spouse's pension from the public sector employer. If you don't have these figures yet I would request an estimate as it may reassure you a little.

Apologies if you've already done this, just wanted to mention it.

I think your feelings about the lump sum are perfectly understandable. It's lovely that your DH wants to do something for a family in difficulty, but I think I would expect my DH to think of my security first as well.

Death in service benefits go to you. Will his employment continue another year though?
You need to be honest with dh that you will need the money.
🌹 for you what a terribly tough time

Did someone mention that if he took an early retirement/lump sum from the pension then you wouldn't get the death in service payment? A FA does seem a good idea.

@daisychain01 I'm going to assume you didn't read the rest of my post... that's the whole point of doing wishes. He can tell her what he wants, but whether she does it or not is up to her. If he doesn't trust her to do it, then yes, leave it in the Will.