Therapists and domestic abuse... AAAAaaaagggghhhhhhhhh!!!

[EasyToEatTiger]

My relationship with my husband has always had its ups and downs and from early on (a couple of years in probably) we agreed to see a marriage guidance counsellor. For a long time I took the responsibility seriously and for a really really long time I had no idea that the way my husband treated me was beyond the pale and I ignored or didn't notice the red flags that were being waved about under my nose. We were treated as a couple. There were many things that just weren't spoken about, and the cracks were nicely patched.

I wonder now how much of this couple therapy is what has kept me thinking things were my fault, given that we had it for so many years. One counsellor specifically blamed me for being angry when I was trying to tell her that my husband had rages. Another, when she knew that I had been to the police and to WA insisted on seeing us together and totally minimising his behaviour. When my husband told a child psychiatrist that our daughter was a psychopath, she simply responded saying, No she isn't.

It has taken some disgusting behaviour of my husband to realise the full extent of what he is like and how he has always been.

I am pretty furious with myself for thinking somehow it was something to do with me, and believing he understood the impact of his behaviour on me and now our children. I am also pretty upset and feel as though I have been led down the garden path by couples counsellors who have emphatically failed me, not least the last one we saw together, who is apparently qualified to deal with domestic abuse.

Which bit of domestic abuse do they fail to understand? Grrrrrr

I am sorry you had this experience in counselling OP and though I cannot speak specifically on domestic abuse or couples-counselling I have however had a lot of experiences with counsellors..

Looking back, I think probably one of them was very good - and really helped me at a time in my life when I was really struggling. I am forever grateful to him. But even he didn't "get" some things - though he "got" the main issue, which was the most important.

I met a couple of awful ones though who caused some harm at a time when I was either having an amazing breakthrough or 'on the floor'. Arrogance and self-importance was probably their underlying trait though something they were unaware of (they got that with the qualification perhaps?). I also had a couple of Okish therapists, but not all that helpful really, though I think they were doing their best and caused no harm. The most help I always got was from my own insights when talking things through. I have come to the conclusion that ultimately, and eventually, one has to rely on oneself, at least this has been my experience - which of course is tricky as especially at the beginning and even later it is usually at a time when one is most struggling by oneself. I wouldn't therapy out now - but these days perhaps because I've been down this road for a long time I think I'd rather sort out my own problems as in a way I am my own 'expert'! Self-reflection, rest, reading (on the internet, books) and a couple of other things help ...

btw, so glad you got the insight you needed eventually.

I would agree with that, Greek

Therapy can be well and good but I for one don't believe it is anything life altering. Put simply, it is from a human and they are flawed just as we ourselves are.

I am writing very specifically about couples counselling and domestic abuse. I have had more therapy in my life than I can shake a stick at because otherwise I would have stopped breathing. Shrinks, clinical psychologists, psychotherapists, the gamut. Most are forgettable. The couple counsellors have failed in their entirety, especially the last one I saw with my husband who knew his behaviour because I told her.

I had this too. She told me to stop acting like a child and that my priority should be my husband. It took me another 5 yrs to leave. I left in the end with my then 3yr old DD who he was starting to abuse too.

He's still trying to control me and my DD now

I think I'm finding therapy life altering since leaving my marriage. Definitely has helped me survive.

I saw a Relate counsellor for a few sessions by myself before leaving and even in my confusion I knew her advice was bad. I pulled out before the next stage of attending together.

EasyToEatTiger sorry for the long process you are caught in. I hope things get better.

It's shocking isn't it how little seems to be understood about the abuse side of relationship 'issues'. I discovered my 15 year marriage was abusive (rather than work stress/cultural differences etc) because of mumsnet. Without this site I would have had no idea, and I'm so grateful . I visited a domestic abuse support worker over the summer who confirmed that this was a textbook abusive relationship and would be psychologically damaging in the long term. However I've been really wobbly since and emailed 3 different branches of relate telling them all of what the support worker had said and asking if they could offer a perpetrator course or some kind of separate counselling. 2 said yes if course, we'll meet you together, see what the issues are (er I've already told you) and counsel you together (nope) or separately. Only one came back and said 'we cannot counsel you whilst there is abuse in the relationship. Here are the details of the perpetrator course. He needs to refer himself'. It frightens me for vulnerable women who haven't read mumsnet !

Not quite the same but I ended up in mediation (I didn't realise that it wasn't recommended for abusive relationships and I could have avoided it) with a mediator who ignored what I told her about our relationship and let him bully me into agreeing to things I should never have agreed to because I was scared of him. It was years ago but I am still so angry with her for not seeing him for what he was and supporting his assertion I was the unreasonable one.

Yes, I've been angry about this so many times. I started seeing my therapist when I was still with my abuser. I'd kicked him out and then let him back in, knowing I was doing better without him, and decided to go into therapy specifically because I saw that I couldn't leave him even when I wanted to and needed to have the choice at least.

The first times I saw her are a blur now, but I remember how increasingly frustrated I felt that she didn't seem to get that he was being really awful. At some point she started using the word abuse, but more to mirror me, I think, and get me to open up more but we never discussed it as abuse and slowly my anger and outspoken confusion was lulled back to sleep and I started using her language of giving him boundaries and being happy at his improvements. So much so that when she did realise he was putting me and the children in danger, I didn't recognise it and apparently reassured her that I was safe and managing the situation.

We have spoken about it since, but haven't yet 'bottomed it out' (as she would call it), but I do feel very strongly that her policy of me needing to come to my own awareness to make real change came at the expense of me and to my horror our children getting much more hurt before I found the ability to leave. In the end, it was me telling her about him calling the children names and her asking how often that happened and me answering that it was every day (duh, of course it was every day!) and her saying that would damage them and I needed to protect them, that finally gave me the permission I had been looking for to get out.

Her policy worked in the sense that I have made and am still making huge fundamental changes inside myself, but things got far more grim before those paid off and unforunately it will be my children who will carry the fall-out from that until they can make their own fundamental changes in therapy . Also, how much I;m able to improve my relationships with people through therapy is limited because that initial lack of understanding and care will always stop me from trusting her fully.

Also, how much I;m able to improve my relationships with people through therapy is limited because that initial lack of understanding and care will always stop me from trusting her fully.

meiisme have you told your therapist all of this? That sounds like something it would be worth discussing with her, and seeing how you feel about her response.

That's interesting that mediation isn't reccomended for abusive relationships. My husband used a mediatior with his first wife. We still live in the same house. He has calmed down. Nonetheless it is hell. I have told my IDVA and the police officer in charge this.

I have had so much bloody therapy on my own, that this comes as a huge shock. It has come also as a massive shock how much the couples counselling have sided with my husband, expecting me to make the changes to make everything better.

My husband sees an ego massage therapist who I hope the police will contact. I am so angry about the whole thing at the moment. I have lived with this man for over 20 years. I feel like a fool.

I think that therapy is put forward by many (also on Mumsnet) as some kind of panacea for all problems. It can be incredibly helpful, but it can also be useless and at worst actively harmful.

The advice NOT to do couples therapy when in an abusive relationship often given on here is very sound. I did therapy with my abusive ex husband and watch him manipulate the therapist into taking his point of view - he just lied and lied and lied. On the plus side it did make me sufficiently angry to demand he gave up his house key.

I think some therapy is awful, and a clinical psychologist friend told me that there's evidence that therapy for children in particular can make trauma worse. I think you have to be very careful with it.

tossmeacigarette I might when we work through that period, which is soon. But I've tried to discuss what happened in the beginning or that I still feel I'm not connecting to people more than once and she got - at least that's what it looked like to me - defensive or treated as me being anxious, which just makes me shut up about it.

Also that as someone in an abusive relationship you often have several layers of personality, with the superficial ones wanting to please other people while the ones underneath are crying out for change. I think some therapists struggle to see that when this is happening in their room. She at least acknowledges that that happened in the beginning, but I don't think she realises that it still happens now.

What do you want from counselling?? That they mirror what you want them to say? and 'solve' your problem. That's not the way it works. If you know he is abusive why are you trying to save it? I don't understand.

meiisme, whatever is going on between you and your therapist you should not be feeling as though you are witholding. Therapists are mostly no better than fortune tellers. If you don't trust this person you are paying good money to talk to, they are no good.
The thing that really made me understand what was going on was taking my daughter to a child psychiatrist. My husband hated it. At least he behaved in front of her the way he behaves in front of me.

Counselling and therapies focused on talking are generally put forward as the sticking plaster to all emotional wounds and hurts. There is no doubt that it can be very effective. I think counselling is perhaps most effective on those who either lack self awareness or those who have a disjointed sense of self awareness. And it is worth bearing in mind that self awareness isn't something any of us are born with. Certainly, ten years ago I wasn't particularly self aware and it is entirely possible I might have found counselling very helpful then.

However, the darker side of counselling is all too frequently in my view glossed over and dismissed. Anyone raising concerns - about the cost - is encouraged to think beyond this, that they are worth it, and if they cannot spare £40 + a week then they don't care enough about 'recovery.' When counelling is ineffective, it is never the process deemed to be not quite right: it is always the counsellor or indeed the client who 'isn't ready' or 'isn't working hard enough.'

There's a cult like attitude there that sits uncomfortably with me, especially given how vulnerable some of the individuals wishing to access counselling are. Yet it is notable that if is so accepted that counselling will work and does work that it's quite rare for it to be challenged.

Why is that? Well, I think there are a few reasons. For one, counselling is a huge money maker. With long waiting lists on the NHS as well as private clients, some people are earning quite a lot of money on the back of people who are confused, distressed, bereaved, lonely or mentally ill. I recognise that many counsellors really do believe in the usefulness of the service they provide but it isn't entirely altruistic and it's misleading to claim it is. It is a business and a business will only survive for as long as people need if, and, as with many businesses, half the trick is making people think they need it.

But it doesn't begin and end with an individual counsellor. There are people in turn making money from charging the counsellor money to train as a counsellor. The overwhelming majority of these individuals will have decided to train as a counsellor because they had counselling.

Rather than presenting counselling as the answer in itself it is better to present it as one possibility amongst other treatments that may or may not work. The cult like approach some people have towards counsellors and counselling is a concern of mine and it seems the only time it is acceptable to be critical of counsellors is in the context of abusive relationships and even then notably it is never suggested the process in itself is wrong.

Therapy IS NOT a person telling or advising you to do anything and if you are being advised you are not being treated morally or ethically! Therapy for couples or otherwise should be simply a safe and confidential environment for the client to feel they can talk through their worries issues or concerns. It IS NOT the therapist job to wave a magic wand and make it all better! It also is NOT TO JUDGE OR MAKE ASSUMPTIONS!
It sickens me to read that people have been treated so badly within counselling.
Yes I'm a counsellor and I have trained over several years to be a recognised qualified bacp counsellor.
Counselling isn't a one size fits all, it is possible to experience several therapists before you find one you click with or are comfortable with.
My advise would be ALWAYS ALWAYS check the counsellor is bacp registered if they are not they should not be practising!
Second piece of advise, be REALISTIC about what it is you want from therapy, be open with your therapist. Trust is key within the relationship without trust there is no point.
3rd price of advise don't assume your counsellor can read your mind! Therapists are trained to encourage open and honest communication to encourage differing perspectives and support alternative methods of aknowledgment and support/teach boundaries and most importantly self awareness. It is up to the client to work within themselfs to discover their true inner self which then leads to self acceptance and realisation that boundaries are so important. And when that happens it is like a light bulb moment and one moment you cannot put a price on.
I'm sorry so many of you have such negative experiences but I'm here just to say not all counsellors are like this. Do your research and stick to the points I have outlined. Most importantly don't give up!

I agree with you chasingstarsthisevening and you have articulated well a significant problem.
Councelling is for sorting out 'everyday' problems. It wasn't what helped me one hoot.
I have been fortunate enough to be old enough to be put into the system ho hum, and been treated for eating disorders and severe depression. Counselling in that respect doesn't touch the sides. When abuse is involved, counselling is as you say, sticking plaster.

It was the child psychiatrist who suggested the therapist, both knowing what was happening at home. It was the child pyschiatrist who exposed to me that I was being abused.
I just want my husband to go away ideally in a black maria.

I'm really sorry you had a bad experience with the couples therapy. Not all are the same though and I would say to report a therapist who blames you or appears to take sides to the BACP, assuming they are a BACP member.

Being told to 'grow up' or a counsellor proceeding while abuse exists, are behaviours that aren't putting the client first.

Hi Sandy the counsellor who told me to grow up worked for RELATE. It was 10 yrs ago now. Hopefully things have changed.

I have accessed very good counselling through my work.
I was on my own and much more determined and aware of the abuse
which i think made the difference.

Having my daughter also strengthened my resolve to leave.

I would be making formal complaints about the couples therapists you have seen, OP.

Hopefully I will be able to report it to the police

Brilliant post chasingstars, some things I would have liked to put into more words in my first post (which I felt was dismissed rather ungraciously by EasytoEat, but anyway ...).

I agree its important to point out the darker side of counselling as well as its merits and successes, as you alluded to chasing.

If you go to Relate then you can't be surprised not to get the best quality of therapy. They're a brand people have heard of but they rain their counsellors 'in house', they are not all properly trained professional counsellors and are only able to work confidently with a limited range of issues.

Instead of just going for the brand maybe research individual counsellors who are registered/accredited members or bacp/ukcp and who won't be any more expensive than Relate and probably without the waiting list, but who are better qualified and will do a better job.

'Counselling is for sorting out everyday problems'

No, this simply isn't true. My caseload is mostly treating ptsd and complex trauma, often relating to childhood abuse, with domestic abuse/sexual violence too. My profession is very effective in treating mental health issues and giving people back their quality of life, so to claim it's just for 'everyday issues' is completely untrue.

Sorry, GreekIsland. I didn't mean for you to feel I had dismissed your post.

It is very interesting that people are pointing out the darker sides of counselling. Counsellors seem to operate free from the idea of Do No Harm.

You are so right, GreekIsland about gaining the insight so you can help yourself.

I have been reading about the history of psychiatry. It seems that therapy can easily become a matter of belief or dogma. Each therapist will have their own ideas as to what works, and standards vary enormously.

It is shocking that the profession seems to be so utterly backward regarding domestic abuse.