Therapists and domestic abuse... AAAAaaaagggghhhhhhhhh!!!

[EasyToEatTiger]

My relationship with my husband has always had its ups and downs and from early on (a couple of years in probably) we agreed to see a marriage guidance counsellor. For a long time I took the responsibility seriously and for a really really long time I had no idea that the way my husband treated me was beyond the pale and I ignored or didn't notice the red flags that were being waved about under my nose. We were treated as a couple. There were many things that just weren't spoken about, and the cracks were nicely patched.

I wonder now how much of this couple therapy is what has kept me thinking things were my fault, given that we had it for so many years. One counsellor specifically blamed me for being angry when I was trying to tell her that my husband had rages. Another, when she knew that I had been to the police and to WA insisted on seeing us together and totally minimising his behaviour. When my husband told a child psychiatrist that our daughter was a psychopath, she simply responded saying, No she isn't.

It has taken some disgusting behaviour of my husband to realise the full extent of what he is like and how he has always been.

I am pretty furious with myself for thinking somehow it was something to do with me, and believing he understood the impact of his behaviour on me and now our children. I am also pretty upset and feel as though I have been led down the garden path by couples counsellors who have emphatically failed me, not least the last one we saw together, who is apparently qualified to deal with domestic abuse.

Which bit of domestic abuse do they fail to understand? Grrrrrr

Many of the therapists I have seen with my husband are accredited to BACP/UKCP. The elephant in the room has always been abuse. I know well that there are some very good therapists out there. It is a jungle though.

Easy my therapist is absolutely not backwards about domestic abuse. Its not good that you have experienced such poor counselling. It's disappointing for you and others in desperate places. Your frustration is understandable. I think the levels of education and qualifications vary.

Sandy re "report a therapist who blames you or appears to take sides to the BACP" - I think the Relate counsellor i saw was very focused on no blame, not taking sides, we both had work to do etc. But to take that impartial approach is very confusing where one person is abusive. I was so deflated at having my role in triggering his anger focused on - I didn't even get into the areas where I'd lost all autonomy in my life. And I could still be in that situation.

I think you are a couples counsellor Sandy? Given how confusing abuse can be, and how long it takes to understand a situation - how confident are you in spotting the signs in a couple of sessions? Genuine question. It's one of the things that stopped me complaining. (Overall I simply wasn't confident enough about what happened to cause trouble for someone who might have been doing her best)

Psychedelicsheep, I don't know if you are comfortable answering but do you think the bar is set high enough re getting accredited?

Re complaints - i thought about complaining about a Relate therapist but as the person with the mental health issues, I didn't think I'd be credible. Im not saying you shouldn't complain OP, you have clear strong opinions. Maybe complaining would help you feel strong right now, but just be sure it's where your energy should be focused.

meiisme I understand what you are saying. I can only go on my own experience but I'd be very uncomfortable with a therapist who is defensive.

The Relate counsellor i saw briefly actually said to me "I know what I'm talking about, I'm not going to explain myself". She was at best snappy - when I was feeling dreadful already.

By contrast my therapist who I have seen for a while is really well qualified and educated, and undoubtedly more intelligent than me. But she welcomes questions and discussion (or, it has just occurred to me, she appears to!). When I was upset about her reaction to something we talked about it and although difficult we both understood each other much better. I think some of our conversations "about" therapy have been our best. I guess the trust has taken a long time but I've never experienced anything less than kindness and respect.

It might help to do some reading online about "good/bad" therapy. Good luck meiisme, I know it's not easy to work out because of course therapy isn't meant to be easy. But that's possibly different to what you describe.

psychedelic I saw RELATE 10 yrs ago. I booked them as I was desperate.

As part of the domestic abuse my ex refused to let me have access to the internet. I was isolated from family. The only way I could choose a therapist was through word of mouth. My boss was so concerned about me that she suggested them.

Obviously now with my own smartphone (I wasn't allowed one when married) and home broadband I am able to find much better support.

Relate was recommended by my GP.

Yes, my gp has done the same.
I'm sorry I'm ranting on. I am just so shocked by the whole system. My husband's therapist is accredited. She writes that one of her specialities is domestic abuse. Her speciality is ramping it up and protecting the abuser. There is no question that my husband will not have mentioned the things he has called me, the way he has treated me sexually, the way he condoned my daughter's assault on me, his proposal to shoot chickens.... His rages, his sulks, his hatred and vitriol. I am angry about it. He has now gone silent about divorce proceedings, having employed a solicitor to write me a threatening letter containing things that didn't happen.

I spoke today to a retired counsellor. She implied that domestic abuse is very hard to spot. It is buried and disguised. Do therapists and counsellors get training in how to spot abuse? And what to do if they recognise it? Some professionals are trained in spotting it.

I think a lot of people go into couples counselling expecting their partner to he told off, or told what a bastard he is. That's not what counselling is for.

I could never recommend Relate. My exh was physically violent to me and the councilor that saw us completely down played it and I remember leaving feeling even more trapped and somehow to blame. The damage that stupid woman did was shameful because my exh minimised his behaviour as no big deal.

I've not had time to RTFL.

However, no couples counselling should ever be offered if domestic violence is known to be an issue. Individual therapy is best in that instance.

Counsellors are perceptive, but we aren't mind readers. We rely on what the client tells us, rather than acting on assumptions.

I can't remember when I first went to marriage guidance with my husband, whether it was before he punched me to to make me shut up. What I didn't realise then was that although he hasn't hit me for years, it forms part of his being and the way he thinks about me in particular.
I also think that issues surrounding sex are difficult to talk about, and I think for me I normalised things which were not normal.

Ten years ago I saw a counsellor who seemed inexplicably keen to keep focussing on my relationship, even though that was not my main reason for going. I remember her looking very concerned as I laughed off XP's idiotic behaviour and cruel, unkind words, which I assumed he didn't really mean because of the other times when he said he luffed me. She didn't mention the possibility of domestic abuse, though with hindsight I think it must have been crossing her mind. I was simply told to go back if I needed more support.
She wasn't to know I've tried hard to avoid asking GP for counselling whenever possible because I don't want to be marked out as having a lot of mental health problems.
In desperation I went to Relate two years before I learnt my relationship was abusive - mostly psychological and emotional. It's a mystery that two counsellors didn't spot it at that time. First I went on my own to find out how to cope and stay long term for the sake of the DC. I was miserable and I did not understand XP's Jekyll and Hide behaviour.
The very first thing I said was, "I have to be really careful what I say all the time". Subtext: I'm always walking on eggshells. The counsellor said she thought that was a good thing in a relationship Ironically that absence of validation told me I had to be really careful what I said to this counsellor too.
A single kick to me and DC by XP on separate occasions came up in one session. While the counsellor said I should have reported it to the police at the time, there was no mention at all of possible domestic abuse.
I saw the second counsellor at couples counselling. XP chose not to engage at all which I would have thought seemed odd. When I raised the matter of him actively and sometimes angrily discouraging any socialising by us as a family, on the assumption that it is normal to have friends, my assumption was challenged. It was a missed opportunity to pick up on me being deliberately isolated.
At the time the abuse did come to light I was already having CBT with yet another counsellor, to whom I'd explained I felt XP was in psychological warfare with me. She persisted with the CBT - trying to change my thought processes - despite ramped up psychological abuse at home in which my XP was also trying to influence my thought processes, but maliciously. It was a dreadful time. I was the one, rather than the counsellor, who had to say CBT isn't helping me one bit.
More recently I saw a counsellor who was specifically recommended for domestic abuse survivors. After a few meetings she let it be known her DM had terminal cancer (I'm fairly certain revealing personal details is against all guidelines) Again, I didn't feel I could speak freely for fear of appearing to trump her suffering and I got a bit of short shrift.
I was put off another counsellor because everything (house, cars in the drive, furniture, electronic gates) spoke to me of beautiful, expensive, pristine, cutting edge design - funded by a lot of others' unhappiness.
I am properly disillusioned.

Many years ago I was having individual counselling and the counsellor asked me, "Why do you mind being shouted at?" I stared at him and wanted to ask him whether he shouts at his wife... and I realised he just didn't get it - because I'd minimised it in my account of what was going on, because I couldn't quite believe it myself, because I didn't want to believe it.

In my case, once I started acknowledging that I was experiencing abuse and not normal marital conflict, it was easier to talk about it in counselling, and my counsellor was very suppprtive when I left my partner.

However, I do think there's a sort of default attitude that relationships can and should be repaired and that both partners should work to save the relationship, and therefore abuse is minimised or glossed over, especially emotional abuse. Perhaps it's a hangover from 19th century expectations that the wife should take responsibility for the husband's moral welfare and can fix him with her gentle kindness if he strays from the paths of righteousness. Anyway, emotional abuse seems to be widely misunderstood.

There are many branches of counselling and psychotherapy, some of which are completely unsuitable for abusive situations. Person-centred counselling is based on listening to the client; fine until difficult behaviours crop up and confrontation is needed. Couples counselling tends to work on the assumption that both parties are sharing the power in the relationship. I actually think every couple should be seen separately as well as together to screen for abusive power dynamics. And while I'm not crazy about the Samaritans, the one thing they do get right is to give their volunteers a very strong sense of their own limitations.

Domestic abuse is not a personal thing. It's about power and is intensely political. You cannot solve it without involving the law and the police. It is definitely not down to individuals to sort out on an emotional level.

Are there really as many as all that, GallicosCat? For the most part, 'counselling' is put forward just like that, not "get X type of counselling" or "talk to a counsellor about counselling the Y way." Other than the much-lauded CBT the only types of counselling I have known are reflective "person centered" types.

And clearly, they help people. But it is an extremely flawed system and one open to much abuse.

chasingstars

Off the top of my head, there's:

Person-centred (humanist) counselling
Behavioural therapy (carrot and stick, basically, used a great deal with difficult children)
Cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT - changing thinking processes to make yourself feel happier)
Psychodynamic therapy
Psychoanalytic therapy (Freud and his disciples)
Gestalt (this is roughly what mindfulness is based on)
Anti-therapy movement which says all of the above is self-serving bollocks

...and many, many other refinements and variations on the above. They are contradictory and confusing in their beliefs, like religions; in fact some of them do operate like cults/religions. Caveat emptor.

Indeed they do, but you will note that there is a difference between psychotherapy and counselling. In other words, counselling - the cure all - that people recommend is almost always the person centred one.

You cannot solve it without involving the law and the police
That's true, but I would have hoped that objective listeners trained in human dynamics would recognise it and flag it up more often than they do. So many other dysfunctional aspects of a person's life which they might be seeking therapy for, can fall into place when an abusive relationship is highlighted.

There are signs of abuse. Often because abuse is covert the person enduring it will not have the language to be able to articulate what's going on. My husband was forever telling me that 'only wanted to do the right thing', which pre-empted any sort of discussion. So he did what he wanted. In couple therapy we went round and round in circles, the same, again and again and again. This happened very early on and I realised that either the counsellor had run out of things to say or there was something else going on. I couldn't put my finger on the something else going on. This is why it has taken 20 years.

Psychodynamic therapy can be very good at uncovering covert abuse as it's based on paying attention to how people make you feel, but it needs a very skilled therapist to do this. It's the emotional equivalent of defusing a bomb and can't be done by well-meaning volunteers.

Counsellors aren't volunteers. They are self employed charging quite a high hourly rate.

keepin that's pretty much what happened to me. I needed someone to tell me that I was being abused.

That didn't happen until a personal trainer at the gym said "your husband sounds like a control freak"

he said that because I had just been explaining that my exh wanted me to cycle 28 miles to work each day and run 3 times a week too because it meant that we wouldn't need a 2nd car therefore I couldn't follow the training plan he had written for me. My exh had just bought himself a brand new BMW.

If it wasn't for him I would probably still be there. Once I was aware and looked into it further loads of people confirmed it for me too. It was only after I understood and could call it what it was that counselling helped.

BEfore that whenever I complained about my husband someone always said "oh that sounds annoying".

Counsellors aren't volunteers. They are self employed charging quite a high hourly rate

Many counsellors are volunteers, particularly counsellors in training.

Please be aware that it is a self-regulating industry and that there is no legal protection over the 'counsellor/therapist' title. Any idiot without a diploma can call themselves a counsellor/therapist. If you are going to use one, check training, check registration with the BACP and check insurance. As a caveat, my ex husband is a qualified counsellor. He claims to be a psychotherapist but he isn't. He did several years training but did not pass. Whilst I with him, he did a supervisors course but again did not fulfill the requirements to pass the course. He still advertises himself as a supervisor. His business has been challenged by the Advertising Standards Agency on behalf of the BACP when his website claimed he was BACP registered. He has removed this but still seems to be able to practise full time. When I was with him he had no supervisor and he was uninsured.

Counselling for my ex was something that made him respectable. Kind. Caring. He is anything but.

I apologise to good counsellors because I know you exist but please be aware of just how easy it is to hide in this industry.

Funny this -also saw relate a couple of years into marriage - prob 20 odd years ago now - I'd had a breakdown then work related - x wanted to leave then as I was no longer same person - we obviously had issues then - he refused to continue to see counsellor as he said she was a man hater - maybe she was picking up on the abuse then but I think I was too traumatised by work situation to get it - somehow we stayed together - prob in hindsight weren't meant too!

We saw a joint counsellor day before x left - she obviously saw traits in him then too that I didn't realise were abuse - later when I carried on seeing her alone it came out she though he was a narc

He saw his own counsellor - she has no doubt believed all the crap he will have told her about me and somehow has reinforced his behaviour - she encouraged him to leave and go forward with his life as I was holding him back! This has translated to cut her loose with no financial security in place once kids turn 18 - who the fuck is going to be supporting them then because I won't be able to.

I am getting flashbacks, especially around sex. I feel disgusted, stupid and trapped.

Hi Easy I'm sorry you're having flashbacks it's horrible isn't it.

I used to go to work at 7am thinking

"I haven't given him sex for a day. I need to psyche myself up to do it tonight"

It was horrible. If I said "no" he would scream shout, slam doors and call me frigid.
At one point he wanted to schedule it in a diary to prioritise it.
So many times I used to cry during sex, but it was dark and he didn't know. Doubt he'd be bothered anyway.