How to re kindle our sex life

[relightourfire]

Hope this is in the right forum....

I wonder if anyone can help me with ideas of how to re-kindle my sex life with my wife. I've read a few threads on this forum but everyone's situation is a little different. I'd appreciate female views on this, even if it means I get condemned on this forum.

We are both in our 40s and two children (8 and 4) have taken their toll on our relationship. We've done a pretty good job so far of raising them but it's been at the expense of our relationship as we forgot to keep looking after ourselves as a couple and resentment over trivial things crept in on both sides.

We ended up having counselling for this and I think it's worked well. We've dealt with a lot of issues, sorted the resentment out and are at least starting to function as a loving couple again and are getting on better than we have in years - with the exception of a sex life which has been pretty bad for many years.

I'll hold my hand up now and confess I got rather into porn and I realise now that it hasn't helped at all with this (or previous) relationship. What I thought was just a guilty secret and a way of unwinding has turned out to be a form of addiction and I get that now and am making amends. I've basically stopped looking at it, turned the internet filters on and am trying to focus on having a satisfying sex life instead. I asked my wife how we move forward with that and her answer was slowly. The thing is, the frequency of how often we have a sexual encounter of any kind is probably once a month if we are lucky and then it's all under her terms and over in a matter of minutes. I don't see her having any desire for anything other than her vibrator and there's not really any way we can move forward with that frequency. She's not really one for discussing any of this either. Opportunity is also a major issue and she's normally too tired after the children are in bed and too busy in the mornings.

I'm not a selfish person and very much want her to enjoy a healthy and fulfilling sex life too. I get the whole rejection thing that some women feel about partners who've viewed porn and I guess that's the major issue I have to tackle now.

If any mums out there have been in this situation and have tried to move forward (rather than splitting and moving on) then I'd be interested to hear how you did it and what sort of timescales were involved.

We came very close to splitting up earlier this year but both decided we didn't want that and the counselling helped a lot of issues. That's all good but life is also very short and I'm struggling with the idea of being with someone who just isn't interested (either in sex or in me, or both).

If she was having an emotional affair that has ended this might have affected her libido. Has this ended? Is it possible she is emotionally attached to this other person still?

Two of my favourite snippets of wisdom for men in relationships are:

"foreplay starts in the kitchen".
and
"a woman's most sensitive erogenous zone is her mind".

Reading your OP and your follow-up posts it seems to me you are fixating too much on the sex part. Look at the facts. She is using a vibrator so clearly still has some kind of sexual desire, she just isn't that into you or having meaningfulsex with you. This could be down to a number of factors:

1. She is too tired and the vibrator is a quick and easy fix requiring minimal effort;
2. She finds your lovemaking inadequate or unfullfilling;
3. She feels emotionally detached from you and/or just doesn't fancy you any more.

My money would be on No 1 being the hot favourite but don't discount the other two. So, are you really doing enough to share the burden of managing the house and looking after the children? Is there more you could do to reduce her workload or increase her sleep so that she can rebuild her energy levels? Is she getting enough of her own time away from the house and kids?

For No2, I suspect you have to unlearn a lot of what you've come to see as normal from your excessive use of porn. Porn in general terms is extremely male-centric, often to the point of being misogynistic, and does not represent the kind of sex that the vast majority of women will appreciate. Take it back to basics. Make it about her. Spoil her. Learn to massage. Learn how her body works, what excites her and turns her on. Take your time, if it takes weeks or months then that's what it takes.

For No3, I suggest you start from the beginning. Romance her, prove to her you love her and appreciate her, not just in the bedroom but in everything she does for you and the children. You have to mean it though and be sincere so take some time to really remind yourself the value she brings to your life.

There's a lot of good replies here - thanks, it's all helping. At work now so short answers from me.

The porn started in my late teens I guess, no different to any other young man I guess. However, back then it was magazines and the odd video - there is a limit to how much you can consume.

With the advent of super fast broadband and smart phones etc it's changed everything for everyone. Unlimited porn 24hrs a day, anytime and anywhere. The more I think about it now the more I worry about how this will affect my son (and daughter) growing up and I now see it as a really big problem for society in general. I also see how porn addiction is very much like a drug addiction and how it really screws your brain up.

So I'm a changed man. I do miss it occasionally but know I'll be a better person and ultimately have a better sex life (eventually) without it.

I think the porn caused the ED (lack of arousal from being with a 'real' woman) and that led to the purchase of the vibrator. I haven't a great problem with the vibrator - she has two, one we bought together and one I bought her.

The emotional affair was with her ex. They'd been chatting / texting / emailing. He's in another relationship and I believe she went back to him because he was a reminder of a 'better' time (no kids or responsibilities). The counselling caused her to ask him for closure either way (i.e. was he interested) but she got no response from him (think he was surprised by that question).

Right now, in order to move forward I can accept we are sort of quits. If my porn viewing was cheating and her emotional affair was also cheating then we've been as bad as each other.

Communication was the issue. It's better now and I think we are both happy to raise issues if there are any (other than the issue of intimacy).

Yes she is always knackered and so am I. We both have too much on with jobs and kids and household stuff but then we are no different to any other couple with kids really.

"giving her affection only as foreplay." One of the reasons I cited in my divorce. Ex was only ever affectionate - verbally or physically when he wanted sex

My wife says I am only ever affectionate when I want sex. Do you know why? It's because I always want sex with the woman I love and find physically attractive. I can't think of any situation where I would for any period of time and certainly not in response to anything she said or didn't say or did/didn't do - sex is the ultimate way to make up and clear the air after a disagreement.

Men and woman are definitely different here and compromise is needed - from both sides. I simply can't think of a situation (excluding infidelity) where I wouldn't want to make love to my wife and would withhold sex from her.

Likewise, if I was still a single man and was approached by someone I found attractive for filthy dirty animalistic sex I would bite her arm off. Sometimes people just need a good shag and could just as happily get that without the emotional attachment that comes with a long term relationship.

Compromise from both sides is needed and in my experience and from talking to others it is often the woman who dictates the sex life based on the mans behaviour in other areas and you know what? Sometimes by compromising and meeting in the middle you might start out feeling like you are having sex more than you want to but then the other partner feels more loved and appreciated and before you know it you both want to bang each other's brains out all the time and all the stupid little areas of resentment and niggling disappear.

She is too tired and the vibrator is a quick and easy fix requiring minimal effort

This could definitely be a factor. Sometimes, I think you just need to accept that you need to go to bed early and enjoy yourselves. Staying up to play on your phone or watch some tele that you're not interested in isn't particularly stimulating for the libido.

Laying in bed to have a cuddle and chat is much more intimate

Scooby are you NEVER affectionate in public/when kids about? You understand affection includes hand holding, kisses that aren't full on snogs, cuddles, telling her you love her etc?

Scooby are you NEVER affectionate in public/when kids about? You understand affection includes hand holding, kisses that aren't full on snogs, cuddles, telling her you love her etc?

Yeah I am. The more affection and physical contact through the day the more I would like to make love when we get home.

I am always significantly more horny after a day off work and with the woman I love than after a day where we have not seen or touched each other through the day.

Missanony:

I'd agree with that. She has a busy job, not long hours but it's stressful and busy. She'll be mentally tired every day after work.
The kids are full of energy and of course there's the 'witching hour' just before bedtime when they go crazy. It's a relief to get them into bed some days.

So then there's the TV and of course phones and this Facebook nonsense on which everyone else you know is doing something better and having a much more of an exciting time than you. I can see she gets quite affected by that and wish she'd just ignore it.

But any attempt for an early night will see her wanting to watch some rubbish on TV first and then going to bed about 10 minutes earlier than usual. Nothing really happens then and she admits that she's more of a morning or mid afternoon person when it comes to sex. She's also suggested that she's not up for it if she's not feeling in the mood which means she has to be in the mood for anything to happen and there's a hundred random things that can kill that mood just when I think something may be about to happen.

If we can get away from the TV and Facebook then we actually stand a chance of communicating properly and acting as a couple but that's a rare occasions these days.

Mornings are difficult as the kids are awake and it's very rare that we are both at home without children during the afternoon.

In that case, I would ask her if you could agree to have a couple of nights a week set aside to having a drink and talking to each other with the tv off and the technology in another room. DO NOT mention sex when asking for this. Do not instigate sex. Talk to her, try to bring some affection back into it all, some communication outside of the counselling sessions, some humour, whatever, play scrabble, it doesn't matter. If you get bored and have run out of stuff to say, no better time for sex

Thanks for everyone's replies and thanks Penhacked - I'll give that a go for starters

OP - did I understand it right - as part of your counselling - your W's ongoing relationship(texting, etc) with an Ex came up and she asked that Ex to decide if he was interested?????
In what - in them re-kindling and getting back together? To re-live the fantasy of their relationship before kids/family????
So - if the Ex were, in fact, interested - she'd be gone?

I am sorry. If the above is all true - then I am not sure that the past porn viewing/current vibrator is the issue.

If she feels that she had to settle for you, and is staying in the relationship because the Ex didn't share the fantasy she has in her head - then there is no much hope for re-kindling the intimacy.
You can still be a team, and friends, and raise the kids together.
But if attraction (on her side) is gone, it is gone.

Sillage - you make me smile, yet again.
Maybe I should think up a good name for my vibrator(s)....
And given your description of porn - gangbang and anal seem to feature prominently - made me wonder what sort of stuff you are into....

Porn can be just two people having normal sex. And those can be wiling participants - it happens.
Nameless vibrators can also be a lot fun of fun - on their own, and as a toy to use with your partner.

But point is - we are all different in what we like. And - I don't see a reason why we need to judge each other and think any one way of doing it is superior.
Many, many people manage to have a fulfilling sex life combining various ways of having sex: couple sex; toys; solo play (with various stimuli - fantasies and technology-aided), joint play with porn viewing, etc. Lots of possibilities there.

No one way is better/worse than other. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself and us.

Josuk,

Essentially she said she needed closure from her ex. I think he was just in contact to humour her (or boost his ego etc). But yes, she asked if a rekindled future was possible and he's just not replied. I'm assuming that he realised that this may suddenly upset his presumably happy relationship with his current partner and ceased all communication.

But yes, I'm sloppy seconds as it were and yes, that makes me feel great.

So I do believe we can exist and work together as a team and we can be friends. Can we be lovers? Well surely the true barometer of a relationship is the intimacy and given what I've written here so far it's not looking too good.

I want a happy childhood for my kids. Maybe that means I hang on in a dead (but pretending to be alive) relationship until they are 18 or something and then move on. That's a long time without intimacy with a female so I'm not sure how that will work. Yes, oxygen, water = essential, female intimacy = nice to have. But even so.

Alternate solution is to get the kids into my interests and just immerse myself in hobbies maybe, whilst doing all that is required at home.

I want a happy childhood for my kids. Maybe that means I hang on in a dead (but pretending to be alive) relationship until they are 18 or something and then move on.

We all want the best for our kids and as parents we accept making sacrifices as part of the job. However, there has to be a reasonable limit to those sacrifices. If you ultimately come to the conclusion that your relationship with your wife is beyond fixing I would argue it is unfair on both you and her to give up many potential years of happiness with new partners. Separated mums and dads do not need to mean misery for the children. Indeed, often having two separated but happy parents is far better for the kids than having two living together but miserable parents.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread but me & hubby have started using The Fusion couples sex toy from Anne Summers & Love Honey ...its amazing , not cheap but might be a Starting/talking point for you and your wife. As I said i haven't read all the thread so if I'm of the mark I do apologise

I slightly agree with others that the emotional affair is a huge issue. She basically asked him to be with her, what would have happened if he had said yes.

All I can suggest is that you continue the therapy. You're either both in it together or not. and that's regarding all aspects of the relationship.

Things happen in any relationship that drive people apart, you can't just put a plaster on it and hope it will be fine. There were clearly huge issues on both sides.

Your posts are mostly about you and about how you can get what you want. You should also be thinking about what she wants, and that probably includes a divorce.

I don't believe it does.

It got to the stage earlier in the year where I asked her if that's what she wanted and gave her the opportunity to go for a divorce.

She said no and that it wasn't what she wanted and that's where we reached a turning point of trying to move on.

@hairuptoday

nice! bet your a joy to know.

OP - if she has said she doesn't want a divorce and wants to work on the marriage then I really think your only option is to go back to therapy and continue to talk about everything.

The women I have talked to about emotional affairs and ones that write on here tend to see it as more intimate than having sex.

I hate gender differences they mess up the world but it's so true about a woman's mind needing to be in the right place. My DH hurt me horribly last year, nothing to do with a third party but a family issue. I went from loving him body and soul to cutting off emotionally totally. I mean I shut down to cope as the pain was so bad. I did try and discuss at the time, he wouldn't which just destroyed my love. At that point I didnt care if he lived or died he hurt me so deeply. After 20 years I saw a divorce lawyer and we seperated.

But to throw all of that away, you know we then spent a few months having THE most painful discussions ever. Honest and excruciating are what comes to mind and now we are back on track. The only way to really get close to her again is find out why she had an emotional affair and sort it all out. There will be a shitstorm probably but real love will weather that though you may feel like your drowning for weeks or even months. Or you may not weather it at all.

I actually think the sex thing is by the by but that often becomes a focus for a crap relationship.

Peanut.....

Thanks, an interesting story.
Well yes, we've been through a shitstorm and the counselling unearthed a load of stuff. Half of it I held my hand up and said good point, I'd have behaved differently if you had told me.

In theory we understand each other more and she can talk to me now if she's unhappy (which it turns out she wasn't doing). Women, please, if you have a problem then point it out and at least give your partner a chance to reconcile things.

I'm pleased you are back on track and I think we are 2/3rds of the way through that process. Maybe we need more help just to get the intimate side if things sorted.

We've been there. I'd say we're fully recovered. But I agree with Oblomov17, there are no quick fixes.

I remember reading lots of threads like this one when we were stuck and looking for answers. I remember threads by Keepithidden, and wonder if things have changed for the better?

Many, possibly most, parents face this sort of crisis at one time or another in their relationship. Some deal with it better than others but hardly anyone avoids it altogether.

For me, looking back, I'd say three things have changed.

1. Our house is more of a home. We're not very tidy people and never have been, but when kids were young the mess was epic - stressful, draining, overwhelming. I was coming from work and cried crocodile tears over it in the bathroom, I really truly couldn't cope. When we moved to a bigger house, the stress levels gone down dramatically, I can compartmentalise the mess, and although there's arguably even more housework than in the previous smaller house, it is totally manageable because everything has a place (sort of).
2. I am fit as fuck. I exercise twice a day every day (except Sunday), 2.5 hours a day on average. I've been always into sports but setting time aside was an uphill struggle with the young kids. I became gradually better at it, but exercising twice a day takes it to a whole new level.
3. I got my confidence back - I feel genuinely attractive and hot when I want to be. This I was only able to do through sex with another man (an ex, coincidentally, so there is some similarity with your story). Wild, brutal, animal sex that made me feel truly irresistible. Not recommending it. Just saying...

So, based on this, questions to ask yourselves would be:

1. Are you feeling comfortable at home? You'd be surprised at how all these things you never notice can drive your wife insane. If she's not comfortable, then how can you make your house cosy so that you can truly enjoy spending an evening together at home?
2. Do you have 'time off' or me-time for health and fitness? Not everyone is a sports fanatic like me (and for a balanced picture I eat lots of crap food + drink far too much alcohol by the way). However most people know intuitively what they really need to be healthy, it's just that this stuff doesn't happen magically. Not after you're 30. Staying fit is hard work. Do what you must. Make it a priority.
3. Confidence is the hardest one. For years after childbirth I thought that being sexy at 'my age' is a joke, a myth, something that you can read about in books or see in the movies. But surely no one shags in the kitchen after you've had kids, because... well,.. why would you? It's just weird, I thought, it's what students and childless couples do. Although I'm not against porn generally, in this situation porn with all the young perfectly shaped bodies can magnify and falsely confirm these insecurities. What helps is positivity, compliments, flirting, and mixing with other sexy but real, upbeat people :-) Seeing your partner at a bit of a distance in a social setting, smiling at someone else, looking at someone else, than giving you half a glance, a brief eye contact that was barely there - that's the hottest thing ever. Close, but apart. Within reach, but not now. Maybe later...

It took us 7 years to get back on track. I wish we could have handled it better and I wish it didn't take as long, but after years of not seeing the point, I'm now actually glad we're still together. We did our best and that's all we could do, so no regrets. We appreciate the sexy times even more now, because we know they're earned, not given.

Feel free to PM me if you want, and good luck x

I revommend Emily Nagoski Come as you are. This book saved our sex life. Proper insightful stuff about how sex actuslly works that let's you sort out more systematically why it's currently not working. Things like understanding desire is responsive in z lot of people would probably save many sex less marriages and relationships that have simply lost the habit of sex and need to relearn enjoying expecting and feeling eager for sex. Google her she's fab and there's shorter articles and z youtube talk you can check out first.

I see nothing criminal porn, I do hang at Sexedchat from time to time, it's ok if partners have different libido.
May be your wife doesn't feel enough support? I mean phisically, may be she's very tired all the time? Home work is very exhausting..