this evening in the custy marriage<<its a huge offload thing>>

[custy]

Had day off work cos I worked Saturday. he?s not through the door 5 mins when I say that I will need to get money for marriage guidance ? fuckin ell how much? about £75 says I - two weeks - ? fuckin ell,?..? ? oh I thought you would have known? says I jokily, ?as you?ve got a handle on the money ( har har?)? mock voice (me) ? oh we don?t need to talk about money because I know it all?

He shouts.

I tell him he?s a knob head.

He goes watches tv. And dd goes on the computer - dh has a go at her because she?s moved into another room as soon as he sat down - prolly because she knew damned well he would turn the telly over - anyway - so he says ? what?s your problem its not like you?ve done piss all today!? at which point I come in from kitchen and say ?are you intimating piss alls been done?? he says
? I wasn?t talking to you - I was talkin? to her?

I carry on with the tea I?m making, then tell him he will have to finish it off as I have to et ready for marriage guidance ? right? he says - I get ready, and go.

Whilst there talked about how he wont try and make an effort - we don?t talk about real stuff - we are skirting around things and quite frankly he cant be arsed.

So get home he puts my hot tea out and a cup of coffee, we don?t speak he sits out of my eye line and not in a spot out of the five remaining which is conducive t o conversation in anyway

He tells me about the spec for the new contract - I listen to mitre joints and other workman stuff

Its forced
Its intermittent.
Its dull
Its certainly not the issue

?right then!? says he what dya want to do? - watch tv, puter take dog for a walk?
? watch tv? says I he goes into living room takes the remote control off dd and of course she moans she?s in the middle of watching something. ? fuckinell can?t please these kids? says he ? may I suggest ? says I ? that you were in the wrong.?
?she?s watching two programmes?
?mum its on the ADVERTS!?

I sit there
We sit there
In silence

For ages.
Not speaking
Its not the first time

He slams his hand down on the table grabs his book and says nastily ? I?m going to read? and went off to the bedroom

You see I think he thinks I haven?t tried because he put my tea out - he tried with the small talk, however what?s really going on is that there are some fundamental issues at the core of this marriage - he is ignoring. He is ignoring them and ironically its getting worse - its not going away - after our usual 17 years of rowing we could get up next morning it would all just be forgotten - usually - this isn?t going anywhere

Oh and just so I don?t forget - he has no patience. Still, I tried for what could have been 30 secs to pick up a piece of bacon on my plate ? oh pick it up for god sake? said in that ....I am annoyed?oh shit ...I realise and...end the sentence with a chuckle - kinda way.

We went out at weekend - he got pissed off because of the amount of time I took to line up my pool shots.

Yesterday he has to pick up ds1 and we were watching a film - I pause the film to go in search of my asthma spray - ? you can?t do that,? says he - ? I have to go pick up ds1 there wont be time?
?well need my asthma spray says I? he has face of thunder I start the film and move past him to find my asthma spray - he realises in a split second he was being a twat and says ? I??ll find it - I?ll find it?
? I don?t get it, if your finding it then your missing the movie anyway??
Yes but I?ll see the end?

He has to have last word - I used to fight - he would tell you different and absolutely believe it in his head. Now I?m at the stage that I?m worried that I don?t give a shit

I?m worried I?m not wailing and screaming and crying. Where?s the emotion? I think he wants out - more than one occasion he?s screamed at me ? just say it , just say it? (divorce) but I refuse - I refuse to be that person in history the one he can point at and say ? she ended our marriage?

When it was his actions and inaction that is bringing it to an end.

what we need is an honest discussion and we are both scared. he is working all day tomorrow

i have an evening meeting.

i wont get home until around 10pm - and its too late - and i'm too knackered by that point to have a real discussion.

which means wednesday. by which time i probably wont be as determined.

Blimey custy, that's a long post - will read it and be back...

Message deleted

Cut and paste your post into an email and send it to him.
Do you want to end your marriage, are you just waiting for him to so you won't be the one who ended it?

Message withdrawn

Have read it through and don't know what to say now

Sounds like you are not happy with each other but would you be OK if he changed a a bit or have things gone too far?

Custy - this all sounds so f*ing dire. It seems like you are both skirting around each other, crippled with the knowledge that it isn't working but kindof clueless as to how to get back on track again.

From an outsiders pov, it looks like all of the fun and humour has been sucked out of your relationship - and you are a fun, witty kind of person, so it must kill you to sit there night after night exchanging pleasentries while your marriage decays round your ears.

I can understand the fear - I've been their in my previoue marriage - terrified to open pandoras box because you don;t know what horrors will escape. But keeping the lid on it all is no life either.

I think you need to talk to him now. Put the computer away and go to the bedroom (or whereever he has gone to read) and just tell him it exactly as it feels. Tell him you are scared that this is the end of everything, that you feel powerless to put things right, that you're tired of being the paramedic breathing life back into your relationship, terrified that it is all going to be a compromise too far. You are young custy, with an almost grown up family, financially independent. You need to take strength from this - you have choices and you have to be strong enough to take them if this doesn;t work out.

He needs to see clearly, by all that you say and do, that your relationship is in crisis and that he needs to play his part in brining it back from the edge.

I'm so sorry Custy - it hurts - I know it does. But there aren't any sticking plasters that are going to cure this problem. It needs something much more fundamental than that!

yes - i asked for a session on my own. hes going on his own next time and them we go together again
i told him this - he pulled his face.

the man nearly killed the marriage in december - i mean serious serious shit.

but hes of the "oh god - must i put a bit of effot in" herumph kind of mode.

and i keep thinking " i am worthit - i am i am ia m ia m ermmm am i? maybe i'm not why am i not worth it - i dont understand?"

and on wards we go.

You are worth it. Is he?

Message withdrawn

Custy - the answer to that is that you are both worth it. The question that you should be asking though, is whether you are worth more together or apart.

Will you be a happier person without him or with him?

If you had a magic button and could spirit yourself forward 5 years (past all the pain and difficulties of staying together or breaking up) where do you wish you would be - with him or in a new relationship or alone?

I'm going to tell you what my dsis(who is a very enlightened, intelligent hippy type) told me when I was bemoaning my sometimes disasterous relationship.
She said that she believes that our partners in life mirror ourselves, that the things that upset us are the things that we recognize in ourselves and that the reason fate pair us with these partners is so that we can face these problems, over come them and grow as human beings.
She said that even if you(I) leave your dh that you will just be attracted to a similiar type of person until you deal with these aspects of your personality that piss you off/frustrate you.
She also says that if you pull back, take responsibility for your emotions(ie no one other person can be responsible for your happiness) and give yourself space to deal with how you feel about yourself, your relationship is likely to fix itself as a by-product.

I am just saying this to you because I recognise a lot of frustration(from both sides)in your post and what she said has really helped me recently and it may just help you(or you could just think it is hippy-shite)

I don't think that you want to give up on your relationship(at least in the past couple of years I have read more fondness than dislike in your posts re your dh) so it might be worth appraching it in a different way.

HTH
X

hold out until the marriage guidancve custy, try to hold out, because they help you so much to put things in perspective.

they are very very good. he is dragging his feet because he has an ominous feeling he will walk in and there will be a woman there and she will say "WHY ARE YOU BEING SO AWFUL TO YOUR WIFE" but, much as us ladies would quite like that to happen, it doesn't.

How is the marriage guidance going? Is it helping?

Wow you express it really well, your post is like an Alan Bennett play.

Just sounds so sad and so frustrating. Are you finding the marriage guidance helpful? He must've been a bit scared when you came home, maybe he was doing the whole smalltalk and edgy behaviour as he was a bit uncomfortable about the thought of you talking about him to the counsellor, all his weaknesses and annoying behaviour being discussed with a stranger?

Men can be so crap at even getting a grip on what they feel about things, let alone talking about it and considering the effect their behaviour is having. Hope his session next week will help to get him to start facing up to it all.

And I agree with soapy and janh that your are most definitely worth it. How are you feeling generally?

filled with remewed get of yer arseism..i followed soapbox's advice and went upstairs and ssaid lets talk - he was asleep - i didn;t know he was turned the other way.

so i said if you dont hink now is a good time let me know but it wont be until wednesday - i dont want to carry on like this do you - its just rubbish

"ummm"

"well i can see that now isn;t the right time as your eyes can't keep open as i am asking you about what could be THE most important conversation we have - that could shape the future of the next 50 years"
"fkinell, i was asleep what do you want?"

just a " not now custy i'm tired and right now isn't the right time"
would have been fine

but hey - they balls in your court - let me know...anytime you want the conversation that could possibly save out marriage or shape the future"
"fuckin' ell!" says he
" whenever you want i'll takt the day off - i'll be as accomodating as you need"

he's gone back to sleep - i think that sums up his attitude really.

Oh sh*t Custy - it doesn't look good does it?

I think all you can say to yourself is that if it all goes belly up, and it is looking like that is a distinct possibility, at least you can say you did everything in your power to try and fix things. But you can only do so much if the other person just isn;t willing to try

I'm reading this and thinking - shit, this could be me in 10 years time. The scenario (or rather, DH) isn't the same. But the sentence that scares the hell out of me 'Now I'm at the stage that I'm worried I don't give a shit'. I'm scared that it will happen to me, even more scared shitless that it will happen to my DH. What will happen when my DH just can't give the shit when I am upset because he's seen it too many times already? Still, I think we are going down that path and I don't know how to stop it.

Reading what Carmenere wrote gives me some hope. I see a lot of sense in it, but at the same time, I wonder -
'face these problems, over come them and grow as human beings.' and
She also says that if you pull back, take responsibility for your emotions(ie no one other person can be responsible for your happiness) and give yourself space to deal with how you feel about yourself, your relationship is likely to fix itself as a by-product.'

Doesn't that mean, to a certain extent, not giving a shit (about what your partner does to you anymore)??

hmmm. Don't take this the wrong way mon ami but I'm not at my very best when just awake either, i must say. I know it must be dead frustrating but I do think you might need to wait for a better time. Or drag him out of bed ply him with coffee and then talk?

When did you last go out together, btw? Without kids, friends etc?

Oh bloody hell. Sorry I can't add anything helpful.

Sorry, in the midst of all I had to say, I forgot to say, I'm sorry that its been like that for you and I hope it all works out for you.

Oh Custy I wish that I had wise words for you as you have given me some brilliant advice in the past.
The only thing I can say to you is that my DH would not go to Relate with me so I went on my own and I found it so useful.
I wish you strength to face whatever the future holds for you.

Carmenere speaks a lot of sense.

Custy, you seem like you are pretty scared. What scares you the most? Losing your marriage and husband and life as you have known it for the last 17 years, or starting a-fresh and discovering life without each other?

It seems like fear is holding you back from making a decision or taking action in case it is the wrong one. Seems that this is the same for your DH.

It also seems like you are both automatically set up to assume that the first thing the other person does is bound to be a personal sleight on you, or that the other does care enough. Its easy to interpret things in the way that you 'want' to.

One of you has got to take the bull by the horns and make a 'positive' decision, whatever that decision may be.

Actually I do want to ask something. Sorry if it's been asked before.

Do you love him?
Are you bored by your relationship and looking for some excitement again? In other words, do you look at other guys and think...
Do you think, that after 17 years, you could save it or has it been like this for years but is only bothering you now IYNWIM?

Hope you don't mind me asking.