Abused Or Abuser

[Howdydoodee]

Just that really? Have you ever wondered if you are the abuser or the abused?

No when i was abused, i knew i was being abused.

I have seen situations where the abused then does become an abuser. Although its usually been a veey toxic relationship from early on.

Interesting question - my H has always said I am abusive to him, yet as far as I can see he's a spiteful twat.

thing is though, he is very very convincing.

StapkesCorner

I ask the question because I have been terrible at times and I admit that and I've changed, but my partner, even though I've been told so much about my behaviour, if I dare mention anything about hers, it's turned back on me very quickly. The difference is O can now see it happening.

If you're both abusive or nasty to each other then it's really not worth being together

Usually abusive people don't agonise over whether they are abusive or not. Usually people who agonise over it are the abused, certainly the relationship has become toxic if you are wondering this.

This is interesting. I've often wondered whether I have inherited abusive traits from my dad.

Though I constantly analyse my actions and thoughts, so I'm not sure if I am abusive. I've definitely been abused though.

Yes! My past relationship I have come to believe over the last couple of years was verbally and emtionally abusive. It didn't occur to me at the time I just knew I was unhappy. I've done a lot of reading up about it but the thing is, if I were to confront ex about it I know he would deny it and accuse me of the same stuff.
One point always comes up... I tend to withdraw emotionally when I feel under attack of overwhelmed.... But according to many online articles, it's a feature of emotional abuse too. So maybe I was an a user too/instead. It's confusing.

It is usually very clear IMO - you follow the power. That's what determines abused/abuser much more than behaviour. In abusive relationships the abused partner (the one suffering from the imbalance of power) will often behave in negative or damaging ways as a response to the imbalance of power which is acting against them. The relationship becomes even more toxic and the abused stays longer because the abuser, in addition to creating the imbalance of power, throws your focus on the guilt you feel for not behaving as you would have wanted to.

And that's not to say the abused bear no responsibility for their toxic response, it's just to say that the relationship with the abused is the root cause of their own toxic behaviour and this is why often when ppl leave an abuser and get in a healthy relationship they end up fine without doing a significant amount of work on themselves and their attitudes to relationships in therapy. Abusers often end up abusing someone else, often don't even try to work on themselves, just keep using relationships as a way of having power.

Trouble is if you've been in one abusive relationship you often end up in another rather than a healthy one because of the damage that was done or because of the reasons you ended up in the first one. At that point you start thinking it was you all along (and the abuser you are now with tells you so) so it gets confusing. That's why I say follow the power to see the real dynamic. Who benefits from the dynamic?

Thanks for the replies. Offered that is very interesting and gives me a lot to think about.

Had a minor argument with my partner last night and in the morning she tells me her version of events and I had to hold strong and say...No it didn't happen like that because there are times when I'm like...Hold on, did it happen the way she said or did it happen the way I think.

My dad is emotionally abusive but in a passive aggressive way, hard childhood etc not his fault to a certain degree but never sought help. Not a straight forward environment to grow up in. My partners dad was soooo much more emotionally and physically abusive. I realise my childhood has caused issues with me but my partner would never even contemplate hers had an affect on her.

I've done therapy many times, learned a lot about myself and tried to change my behaviour and it's been a good process. I went because my partner said it would be good because of things I have done. After I went I realised she would benefit too but there is nothing wrong her, god forbid she has issues to. Over the years it seems like I'm the only one with issues not her. Everything always seems to come back to me.

I recognise that, Howdydoodee! I could have written this myself

I've done therapy many times, learned a lot about myself and tried to change my behaviour and it's been a good process. I went because my partner said it would be good because of things I have done. After I went I realised she would benefit too but there is nothing wrong her, god forbid she has issues to. Over the years it seems like I'm the only one with issues not her. Everything always seems to come back to me.

My own upbringing has been complicated, and for most of my adult life I have had a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist lurking. My husband choses to hold it against me.

You have been learning through therapy what is your shit and where the edges lie. When a partner starts edging in on that, they have crossed a line.

yep, me too, sounds very familiar.

Yes my abusive ex accused me of being the abusive one....I wasn't...think it's a popular tactic of abusers to play the victim

Didn't want to just leave the post. All the replies have got me thinking about things lots of different things. Thanks everyone.

I wonder if some that are abusive think they are doing the right thing? Where they push one other towards one particular type of church or towards atheism and don't allow them to lose their sole worshiping false idols as a Catholic or be conned going to a Protestant Church or any way round. It can show it things you may let pass, where you suggest going to one place and they are no its boring but when you say the same they will tell you you are being selfish. Does the other make all the decisions over where spare money goes and it feels like most of it goes on them or though you don't like a colour but the lounge has to be that one and so on. It can take ages to see that though its not so verbally abusive one expects everything their way and in what is supposed to be a partnership thats not quite right.

Sometimes a person can speak in a condescending tone that is picked up by the other but its not intentional just as one or both may be snappy people but it again is not intentional, we are but we know it so it goes by. However if the condescending tone or snappiness is also constant put downs or undemanding of you, your ability or self worth that is a different thing. The problem with non physical abuse unless the person starts out with a nasty tongue, you may not notice it for a long time. You feel a bit uneasy but can not put your finger on it or down right miserable most of the time, your self confidence has disappeared you don't get why. It may not be until you are out of that situation that you realise what went on or worse you are out of it and just don't realise.

It's simple really. The power grabs are incremental. Most abusers simply feel entitled to each incremental grab, some (if abuse is based on a belief system; religion, politics, sexism etc) believe their whole belief system is superior or that they themselves as an individual are superior (narcissism).

But you follow the power. It can take a while to work out where the power is because understanding what an abusive person gets out of each toxic interaction can be difficult but if you are feeling bad about yourself, feeling you can't be yourself (walking on eggshells), dreading being around them, feeling you can't do anything right etc you are usually looking in the wrong direction and you need to be asking what the other person is getting out of the relationship eg being right always, having things their way always etc

Interesting. I stayed in a very abusive marriage for ages because I was so confused about what was actually happening. Stbxh was very good at all the gas lighting and rewriting history stuff, and in the end I didn't know whether I was coming or going, and actually believed me when he'd talk about 'my anger problem' and how I needed to do x, y, and z to make him happy and save our marriage... it's incredible that I fell for it really, but I guess that shows how an abuser can mess with your head and end up controlling everything you do and think.

'Luckily' he increased the abuse one too many turns of the screw and even I noticed that it didn't make sense. Clearly not my fault for getting injured when I 'made him' throw me across the room by my neck. Obviously im being somewhat ironic calling it luckily, but in a way it really was, as it made it so clear to me that I wasn't the evil abuser he said i was on that specific occasion, and it gave me a tiny bit of clarity to cling onto and slowly I appliedthay fresh perspective across all parts of my life. The 'anger problem' I apparently had was the only big of me still working correctly at that point... it's ok to feel angry when someone behaves awfully to you. But now I know that you also should never accept the situation, but end it somehow so you aren't having that anger all the time. My anger was a clue that I should have acted on, vs a character flaw I needed to repress.

Following the power is a really interesting way of identifying the abuse, but it's not always obvious. So in my case stbxh was very good at looking powerless whilst holding all the cards in reality. Poor ickle man needing help... except that help never actually helped and you could pour all the love, money, time, effort, health into his gaping maw and it would never be enough to 'help' him. He took and took and took, and I gave and gave and gave. And he abused and abused and abused whilst demanding ever more incredible acts of giving to satisfy him.

So, the unemployed/ non working partner doesn't always mean they have no power, for example.

Humm, haven't thought about this for a long time now. Thank God I know I was never the abusive one now, it really floored me at the time.

Following the power is a really interesting way of identifying the abuse, but it's not always obvious. So in my case stbxh was very good at looking powerless whilst holding all the cards in reality. Poor ickle man needing help... except that help never actually helped and you could pour all the love, money, time, effort, health into his gaping maw and it would never be enough to 'help' him. He took and took and took, and I gave and gave and gave. And he abused and abused and abused whilst demanding ever more incredible acts of giving to satisfy him.
I could have written this. Stbxh had mental and physical health problems. It looked like I was the boss to anyone on the outside, I ran the house, got the children to school/college/activities ran the bank accounts, paid the bills etc. Poor, poor dh, he couldn't do it, he couldn't drive, he couldn't walk, he couldn't cook, clean. He did have lots of money spent on him for his at home hobbies. Fuck we were so scared of him and his moods. He had to be able to watch his programmes, read on the sofa so no one could watch tv, despite having a choice to go elsewhere, play his music, loudly, even at 1 in the morning if he wanted to. He would make our lives hell if we went out for the day by either slamming around and throwing wild accusations at us or by ignoring us, which sounds fine but you know you're going to pay eventually so you're constantly waiting for the volcano to explode. Other stuff, too. My (at the time, teenaged) dds had overnight bags under their beds so they could be moved to their brother's place quickly if he got out of hand. He very definitely had all the power, but apparently I was the abusive one...

It's the incompetent husbands thread that.

What you are talking about is the most difficult kind of abuse because it plays on the sexism that we are all socialised into. Nobody spots it from the outside.

But when it comes down to it, if you follow the power it still leads you to the abuser. An abuser who 'doesn't do' as a way of getting power and rages or PA attacks behind closed doors is still the one with the power. Abusers can be 'do' or 'doesn't do' and switch between in a combination. Following about the power is about one of you being worse off and one of you being better off (emotionally, physically, financially, time wise, chore wise etc). Often in abusive relationships you become codependent so that a lot of what you are doing (to protect yourself) is contributing to the dynamic of behaviours that are making the abuser 'better off'.

It's basically 'who wins out of this?'

I have a very PA husband. We are separated thank god.

He was a 'doesn't do' most of the time. He'd never rage. He did a lot of PA things.

When I left him, 4 years ago, he very successfully played it so I lost all my friends as from the outside it looked like I had been the one with all the power, doing everything, him suffering an overbearing wife and that then I'd swanned off when I didn't get to boss him around anymore.

I don't care what people think though TBH. Ppl would find the reality very hard to believe as his victim act has been so well played for so long.

With that PA, as it was with my husband, when I realised it was 'wouldn't do' rather than 'couldn't do' it was a game changer.

He lived alone from 18-30 but for some reason I bought his 'I can't'; clean, wash up, look after the children and pick up toys, deal with bills, do feelings etc

Offred sounds like my relationship. Glad you are out of it though, gives me hope.

Yes, he was very much a wouldn't do and what that did was it gave him choices that were not available to me. A choice to stay up late if he chose because he didn't have to be up to do lunches and lifts. A choice to spend on his hobby because he didn't have to think about the consequences of his spending. A choice to stay at home because he didn't have to do scouts/guides/school play/parents evenings. And of course therein was the path to the power. However, it turns out that actually nearly every one else could see it, so maybe not as clever as he thought and maybe, Staples, not as clever as you think.