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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dealing with a family member with a history of abusing children

141 replies

mindutopia · 14/08/2017 15:03

I wanted to ask some advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation about how you handled this and dealt with this as parents and how you handled the family drama that may have resulted.

It came to my attention last year that MIL's partner, who she has been with for probably 12+ years now but they are only recently married, so basically my husband's step-father, has a history of sexually abusing a child in his own family. The child was a family member of his previous wife (now passed away). The details are all very convincing and I have no doubt he poses a risk to children. It went to trial, there was forensic evidence (semen), he was convicted and served a prison sentence. This all happened when MIL and he first started dating. My husband knew he had some legal issues in the past and had had to go to court, but he didn't really know the extent of it. He was 18 when they met and was living away from home, and then for part of that time was working overseas where we met. I honestly think he was happy enough that his mum had met someone and seemed happy that he never really thought to probe to much about this boyfriend who seemed to disappear and then re-appear. They never really talked about it.

Anyway, fast forward a decade, we are now married and have a 4 year old daughter. We've never been allowed to stay overnight at their house since our daughter was born. I honestly thought it was because they either didn't like me or didn't like our daughter. Sad We live nearly 2 hours away, which makes visiting really difficult because 4 hours is a long time in the car with a baby and now toddler. BIL and SIL were always welcome to stay though, which is why I thought they obviously just didn't like us. But finally we got them to agree that we would all come for Christmas last year and we would all stay at the house together for the first time. Then a few weeks before Christmas, MIL called to tell us that the police wanted to speak to us as step-FIL is still on the sexual offenders registry and we aren't allowed to stay at their house unless we met with the police to be interviewed and give our consent for our daughter to be there. I could have punched her in the face! And if she had told us that in person, I probably would have, so I'm grateful she thought to call instead! Apparently, there was no plans to ever be honest about his past despite him having contact with our daughter because they were hoping they could just avoid saying anything until his period on the registry was up (he had to be on for 10 years) and then we never would have had to know the extent of it. The hitch was that the paperwork had been delayed in removing him from the registry, which they had hoped would be done before Christmas, but now would take several more months. He isn't allowed to be around a child for more than 12 hours without the parents giving consent and meeting with the police to be informed about his history of offenses against children.

So needless to say, this situation blew up after that because I was furious. I take these sorts of things very, very seriously. I have a history of sexual assault myself and I used to work as a social worker with vulnerable children, having had to report many incidents of abuse myself in my professional work. So this is a really big deal to me and they, of course, would have known that, which is why I suspect they tried to lie and cover it up. My husband and I immediately decided that step-FIL would have no further contact with our daughter. I have absolutely no reason to believe she has ever come to any harm. We only see them a few times a year. She's only 4 (and was 3 when this happened), and while MIL has babysat her at our house (with help from her sister, my husband's aunt who lives close to us), our daughter has never been left unsupervised at their house nor has step-FIL ever been to our house when MIL was babysitting (husband's aunt was there and can confirm this, I suspect she knows about his history which is why she volunteered to help so there was no chance step-FIL would be there). So though we have no reason to be concerned about our daughter's safety in the past, we are unwilling to even take the chance that anything could happen in the future and it was an easy decision to stop all contact with him.

Obviously this has been a massive blow to our trust and confidence in MIL and we set some very firm boundaries with regards to her future relationship with our daughter. She has never been very forthcoming about anything that has happened. She wholeheartedly believes that he is a 'victim' and he has suffered an 'injustice' perpetrated by this child's family and that any questions we have or any indication that we don't 100% trust him no questions asked is a sign that we are continuing to perpetrate this 'injustice' against him just like everyone else has. He very much has the classic abuser mentality that everyone is out to get him and the world has it out for him, which only confirms his guilt even more in my mind. MIL's relationship with him is very controlling and she is very manipulated. They put on a good front of being blissfully happy. But we have walked in on arguments they were having, as have BIL/SIL, where he speaks to her terribly and all is not as it seems on the outside behind closed doors.

As a result of this, my husband and I sat down and wrote out a list of questions for her/them (really, her but about the case and his restrictions in regards to children). Basically, we wanted to know the charges, how long his prison sentence was (we know he was in prison for 18 months, but that wasn't the whole sentence) and what restrictions he is currently under re: being on the sexual offenders registry. We wanted to make sure they were being totally honest with us and we wanted to check up to be sure that he hadn't violated any restrictions in regards to our daughter. We thought this would be an easy way to start the conversation, clear the air and get everything out on the table, and start trying to repair all the damage in our relationship with MIL so that she could continue having a relationship with our daughter. None of my family lives nearby and we only see them at holidays or birthdays a couple times a year. So my husband's family is our only 'local' family that my daughter sees more regularly. Without them, she literally only has us and an aunt and uncle (BIL/SIL), so it's important to heal this stuff as much as we can (except with step-FIL, obviously). We thought it wouldn't even be a big deal. Anyway, my husband went to deliver the letter and list of questions to her and talk to her, and she said, absolutely not, she would not answer those questions for us. We gave her a month or so of silence to think about it and asked again. She said no.

After that, my husband wrote her a very detailed and emotional email and explained how upset we were and how hurt we had been by all this, but how the only way forward was for her to start being honest with us and answering those questions was the first step. We had decided that if she was unwilling to have any sort of conversation with us about this then she would not be able to have a relationship with our daughter in the future. We hoped that this would at least wake her up to how serious this was. Her response was that if talking anymore about her partner's past was the only way she could be in her granddaughter's life then she would have to choose to no longer have a relationship with her because there was no chance that she would ever talk to us about the things we wanted to know. We were devastated, of course, but I was also really angry. My daughter had nothing to do with any of this and she is too little to understand why her grandmother has just vanished. I feel like our expectations were so lenient (several friends I have talked to about this situation said they would have cut both of them out from the start and never given her a chance to even have a relationship with our daughter again after knowing she conspired to allow a paedophile access to her).

All of this started last autumn and it's dragged on since. We can go a month or two without hearing from her and then she'll pop up calling and texting my husband like everything is fine. Or sending our daughter cards and gifts in the post. We then have to reiterate that she is no longer allowed a relationship with her (by her own choice) and that sending things in the post is inappropriate. Our daughter is old enough now that she knows how to spell her name and she knows when something is addressed to her. It puts us in the horrible situation of having to lie and take things away from her that she can clearly see are addressed to her. But I will not allow someone who won't participate in her life to continue to hold on tenuously by plying her with gifts. So this happens every few months and then it blows up again. In the midst of all of this going on, I got pregnant in February of this year and had a miscarriage in April, while dealing with this mess at the same time. I am very grateful to have gotten pregnant again straight away the next month and am now 14 weeks and all is well with this pregnancy.

But this situation continues to wear on me/us/our marriage. My husband is supportive and he agrees with the decisions we've made, but I can tell he is getting worn down by it all. We trade off having good weeks or bad weeks when we all but have a mental breakdown. Last week was a particularly bad week for me prompted by another letter from MIL about my 'unreasonable' and 'unjustified' behaviour in further 'victimising' step-FIL and another gift for our daughter (which promptly got sent right back return to sender). It makes me want to be sick to be honest. She has been notified by letter again that she has no relationship anymore with our granddaughter and basically to leave us alone.

I guess my reason for writing all of this (which I never intended to be quite so ridiculously long!) is to ask if anyone else has ever been in a situation like this with a family member who is a sexual abuser, but not involving you or your children directly, and how did you deal with it. This isn't just going to go away. They are married. He isn't going anywhere. He will continue to control and manipulate MIL. Even if she ever was to take our concerns seriously, start talking to us, answer the questions we have for her and try to heal the relationship between us which has been so completely fractured by all of this, honestly I don't know that I would ever want her around my daughter after all of this. It would have been different if she had been open and honest from the start when confronted and tried to help us to process all of this and if she had apologised. She has literally never once said, I'm sorry I brought this man around your child (and also my friends' children for that matter, he has attended my daughter's birthday parties with children running around everywhere and we had no idea).

But anyway, even if MIL had a change of tune tomorrow, I truly don't feel 100% comfortable that she wouldn't do whatever he tells her. What if he asked her to take inappropriate pictures of our daughter? She truly believes he is innocent. Would she chalk it up to that's nothing weird between a grandfather and a granddaughter to have a few pictures from bathtime? It makes me sick thinking about it. But we are going to forever have to be dealing with this because we have a large extended family and strong relationships with them that we don't want to lose just because we don't have a relationship with MIL. I've tried to find resources, but all I can find are resources for those who have been abused by a family member. That's not us, and I'm so grateful. But there is nothing out there on how to deal with having a sexual offender in the family and the strain that puts on family relationships. I guess I'm just looking to see if there is anyone out there who has been in a situation like this. I feel so lost some days dealing with it, and then other days so stressed out and angry. It takes up a lot of my time and emotional energy. Our family life has really suffered the past year, despite my husband and I doing our best to stay unified and be positive about it all. I know the stress is affecting our daughter.

OP posts:
thisfamily · 25/08/2017 10:54

Sadly in this case there can't be half way measures.
Report GM professionally might lead her to consider more the implications of her relationship as it would bring things out in the open and I am sure she is concerned by what people say and the face she puts to the world.
Your H can still have a relationship with his mother, that's his choice.
But going NC for you and your DD seems to be the only way forward. In her case having no DGPs is far healthier.

Gemini69 · 25/08/2017 10:58

a Person who PROTECTS a Person convicted of an Offence against a Child and is a Registered Sex Offender for the Offence .. should not be working with Children..

I would never allow a Person who protected such a Person to be near any children.

you must Report this.. Flowers

0ccamsRazor · 25/08/2017 12:17

The mil is a social worker for adults with mental health issues, am I right? So she does not work directly with children, that does not mean that she doesn't work indirectly with children though. So I would be inclined to report her.

Op trust your gut intincts on the issue of mil and contact with your dc.you sound really clued up and switched on mother.

Flowers
zara020 · 25/08/2017 13:28

Op, I do have experience similar so your post has really resonated with me.
My uncle (dad's brother) is a convicted paedophile and served half of his 6 year sentence and was released 3 years ago. His convictions relate to historic abuse in the 80s and featured quite heavily in the press which was bloody horrific, as it came entirely out of the blue. He now lives with my elderly grandmother as he hasn't a penny to his name.

Like yourself, I had to have an interview with the police when I was pregnant with my son as I admitted we would be visiting the house to see my grandma. I had to give consent for him to be there when we visited which I gave only because I didn't want to restrict any time she, the innocent one in all this, may have with her great grandson. In practice it's been quite difficult to be there with my son when he's there. He's never laid a finger on him, but the thought still repulses me. I'm under pressure to visit more often as we live near by, but I really struggle. Currently pregnant with my second, so it's made me all too acutely aware of the need to stop these visits as the make me hugely uncomfortable.

I am considering asking him to be out when I visit now, but I know this will cause problems as most of that side of the family have decided he is no danger to children and has 'served his time'. I don't want to upset my grandma, as I'm sure you don't want to upset your MIL, but I agree you have done the right thing. Your job is to protect your child however many people you may upset. There's only one person to blame for all this in both our cases, and it isn't us!

Sorry I can't offer any words of wisdom as I'm caught up in it all at the moment, but just to say I admire your courage at taking a stand. Flowers

mindutopia · 25/08/2017 13:30

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I hadn't thought of it quite in the way that one pp said, that accepting gifts could be turned around on us and used by them of proof of how terrible we are by enforced the nc but taking their gifts anyway. They are pretty manipulative, so it wouldn't surprise me if that is part of the rationale on her end. I agree it also feels like a form of grooming. And actually financial grooming was a significant aspect of the charges against her partner. He was buying gifts and holidays, etc. for this girl and her family, and claims that the abuse was alleged only because he refused to pay for a holiday they had wanted to go on, so they 'retaliated' by making up this 'false' abuse claims. Really, it was a super clear case of grooming of a child and her family (because he is a very unfriendly and not at all generous person in every other aspect of his life). I do worry it leaves open a crack into which they could try to wiggle themselves back in 'because they have always given such nice gifts,' etc.

I think my main concern with the gifts is that it does nothing for our dd. Like it's not going to enhance her life or make her feel like someone loves her and thinks about her. If anything, it's going to be a reminder every single holiday and birthday that she isn't worth it to her gm for her to actually have a relationship with her. It's also about us and our ability to cope with this emotionally as well. I keep thinking about the future. I don't think things will change. If five years down the road, she is still with this man and still protecting him, we will still have no contact. I don't want to still be crying about this on a regular basis 5 years from now. I want some peace in our lives and closure. If she's going to pop up every Christmas and birthday sending cards and gifts in the post, it's going to just open up the wound again. So far this has overshadowed every happy time in our lives for the past year. I graduated from uni with a postgraduate degree (it all first started that same week), we had two pregnancies (one that ended in mc), it overshadowed that excitement. We couldn't even announce our pregnancy without feeling compelled to deal with her first and tell her and then got a snide letter from her (never mind she has never once acknowledged by current pregnancy or said congratulations). Christmas last year was depressing. Our daughter's birthday was awkward as everyone was asking where she was, etc. This has overshadowed so much of our lives. I want to close this chapter and move on. And there is part of me that doesn't want gifts (apart from I don't think it's good for our dd) because it means we can never have another Christmas or birthday or whatever without this boiling over again. I need a break and I need to move on. We all do. I don't want that for myself.

I also frankly don't want to give her the opportunity to continue to live in this fantasy that they still have a relationship just because she sends gifts. When she sees other family members at Christmas and they talk about what they got their grandchild, I don't want to give her the chance to participate in that conversation. I want her to feel that loss just like we have had to and I want her to maybe one day feel regret for what she's done. I think maybe allowing gifts to continue means she can pretend everything is normal and we just live too far away to visit (not true, but I can see her convincing herself and everyone else of that). I want her to have to carry the burden of this decision and not us, if that makes sense. Because I'm so tired of being the one to carry it frankly.

OP posts:
ProphetOfDoom · 25/08/2017 13:35

Your MIL may choose to have a relationship with a convicted paedophile - turns my stomach writing that tbh - but she doesn't get to choose that you and your dcs has a relationship with him.

And since her own moral compass is totally screwed I think for your dc and for you NC is the only way to proceed. My dcs don't see their grandparents very often but get birthday cards & presents - from dcs' perspective they're from from nice people in our family who we love and trust and they love us. That's not the meaning you can attach to the giving of gifts for your dc from MIL (and presumably her OH) so imo NC means exactly that.

How DH chooses to manage his relationship with mother is entirely separate as long as he is clear about and supports your reasoning on the position concerning dc and their safety and emotional well-being.

mindutopia · 25/08/2017 13:40

zara020 Thank you for sharing your experiences. It does sound very familiar and your story really resonates with me too. I think I was really shocked when all this first happened because I was like, this is so completely crazy how the family has all rallied around the abuser and there has been little concern for us, even among those who know the whole story. The more and more I research families who have been affected by abuse, the more I realise this is actually quite common, which I find shocking, but I think especially in that generation (we are talking folks now in their 50s-70s), that's just what you did. You brushed it under the rug and you didn't bring shame on the family by making too much more of a scene than has already been made. It boggles the mind, but I guess it is how it is. I'm glad I have had the balls to do something different though, even if it's been hard.

I think you're right about age making a difference. I am not too concerned about my dd's previous contact with them because she was mostly a baby and has really never been out of our sight, except for maybe a few minutes here and there when she has been in a public space with him and other family members while one of us went to the loo or ran to get something from the car. She was too little still. But she's 4 now and she's getting much more independent and I wouldn't think twice about her wandering off with a trusted family member to see something in the garden or upstairs in the spare room or out in the garage. So I am grateful we found out when we did and could act on it. You will likely feel that way with your uncle I suspect. Certainly, I think you are in the right to ask him to be away from the home when you visit. That was our plan had we ever been able to move forward. If MIL had been supportive and forthcoming, we would have still visited, on the condition that this man was not present. He'd have to go out for the day and not come back until after we had left so we had no interaction with him at all. But he is in his late 60s and still mobile and able to drive, which makes that easier. I hope you find some solution in your own situation. I except you do want to see your grandmother and I can understand her willingness to give him a place to live, so hopefully there is some way around it.

OP posts:
tickingthebox · 25/08/2017 13:47

I'm curious about this sentence

"Our daughter's birthday was awkward as everyone was asking where she was, etc. "

Surely the answer is "She's not allowed to associate with our daughter as she is married to a convicted paedophile"

You don't need to keep her secrets and given the fact she has few friends I would suspect thias "secret" is very well known locally. It's probably just family who don't know.

Gemini69 · 25/08/2017 14:19

tickingthebox is correct..

also your thinking way too deeply OP......

Forget the gifts... Forget the explanations to friends and family... LOOK at this situation exactly as it is...

Your mother in law is married to a convicted Peadophile.. She will do everything in her power to Protect HIM...

you must report her to the Authorities in her place of work.. and close the Door on this deluded woman..

mindutopia · 25/08/2017 14:50

tickingthebox What I meant by that is that all of our friends and parents of our daughter's friends (most of whom know nothing about this, it's not the sort of thing you'd just blurt out at the school gate to some other parent you don't even know) found it odd that only one set of grandparents was there (mine, who flew in from another country). It's not a problem for me to talk about it, but I don't want to be asked every single event in our dd's life why so and so isn't there. I didn't mean awkward as in I'm embarrassed to talk about it. I mean awkward in the sense that god, I just want to get on with life and make a special day for my daughter and not have to talk about this every single time we do anything. I think it's a normal expectation for grandparents who are alive and live nearby to come to important events in a child's life and so I'm sick of having to explain it to various people at every single one of those events to every random person who asks. It just opens the wound up for all of us again and so it's overshadowed all of those events this year, because random parent's of her friends don't know the whole story (nor do I want to explain it instead of playing with my daughter at her birthday party) and people don't realise what a big deal it is to ask these questions. So that's what I mean by that. She doesn't live locally anyway and there's no keeping of secrets, just the desire to have some normal days here and there. Once enough time has passed, we'll have had a chance to talk to our friends more about it and people won't ask anymore, which will be great. But that's why I worry about the gifts continuing to show up. Because we'll have created the closure in every other way, except we'll be letting her continue to open it back up, if that makes sense. I think maybe it's hard to explain to someone who hasn't lived through it how abnormal the past year has been and how much I long just to have a normal life again without all this drama, which is hard to explain.

OP posts:
FuckYouLinda · 25/08/2017 15:16

The continued gifts are too open to manipulation and grooming in the future. Plus you'd be expected (or DD would when old enough) to write thank you cards or notes in return - that's not going NC.

It's also opening up an avenue of communication with your DD, paving a way to get in touch down the line and being potentially confusing for her not to be polite and friendly towards the couple who sent her presents all those years. (and you know that MIL will sign those birthday cards from Nan and Grandad or whatever.)

I felt during my CSA that because they were family members and my parents continued to be LC with, that what was done to me was minimised and swept under the carpet. It really fucked me up as an adult and took me years to realise it. It made me feel worthless to my DP's that they never reported the fucker. All they did was have some stern words and he eventually moved away, but for a while after they discovered it, I was still left to play unsupervised within reach of him. The onus was on me, the 5yo, to "stay away from there" So if he had dared to touch me again, I would have been the one getting into trouble.

In contrast, their golden child was briefly groomed as a teen and all hell broke loose on that incident before she met the perpetrator alone thankfully. Police were called in, SS were called in. DP's were and still are angry at what was done. It really only reinforced how little my parents cared about my actual abuse. And my relationship with them suffered as a result, unsurprisingly.

So you do need to demonstrate to all in the family where your line clearly is. If you are wishy-washy you are more or less giving them licence to determine for themselves what level of contact they may deem appropriate down the line if your DD is staying at an aunt's for a sleepover and they all have Sunday dinner for example - it would be justified by saying that "well, we know you accept gifts from FIL for her and we were in the room the whole time" and things like that.

This is why you have to be clear.

Gemini69 · 25/08/2017 20:09

FuckYouLinda

what an awful experience ... respect to you for sharing this Flowers

seedsofchange · 26/08/2017 23:04

Absolutely what linda said! I asked MNHQ to pull my post from last night because it was too identifying, and I have a family I didn't want to feature in the DM, but similar stuff happened to me.
Seriously your MIL needs to be avoided. I'd go NC if it were me. And I'd report her to the SW body. She's not fit to practice

seedsofchange · 26/08/2017 23:13

And I'd be telling every one who asked where that set of GP were at any event "SGP is a convicted paedophilie and on the sexual harm register so they can't attend this event because we need to protect all the children present and GM supports him despite his conviction. And even if no children are present we don't want them here as he's a convicted child abuser and she supports him, and we don't want to to have them here in our home/garden etc.

seedsofchange · 26/08/2017 23:30

That's what should have happened with me. It didn't. I had six years of continued abuse from many men and my father ignored what I said because he wanted to continue to go to his drinking dens and had to take me with him, due to my age as he had to look after me (ha ha) If he'd listened to me and believed me would have had to stop. As an alcoholic that presumably took precedence over care for his daughter.

seedsofchange · 26/08/2017 23:42

And if asked that is what I say about my older brother who is a convicted paedophilie and on the register. He does not visit with us, I do not let him near our daughter or visit our house. I am NC with him apart from being the contact if anything bad happens to him. He denies he's done anything wrong and blames his victim for leading him on. Im disgusted by what he says and has done and how he minimises and lies about what he's done. His victims were all boys (he is gay) but even so, not letting go him near my daughter or her friends. He actually said he'd be fine around her or her girlfriends! Yuk.

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