Dealing with a family member with a history of abusing children

[mindutopia]

I wanted to ask some advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation about how you handled this and dealt with this as parents and how you handled the family drama that may have resulted.

It came to my attention last year that MIL's partner, who she has been with for probably 12+ years now but they are only recently married, so basically my husband's step-father, has a history of sexually abusing a child in his own family. The child was a family member of his previous wife (now passed away). The details are all very convincing and I have no doubt he poses a risk to children. It went to trial, there was forensic evidence (semen), he was convicted and served a prison sentence. This all happened when MIL and he first started dating. My husband knew he had some legal issues in the past and had had to go to court, but he didn't really know the extent of it. He was 18 when they met and was living away from home, and then for part of that time was working overseas where we met. I honestly think he was happy enough that his mum had met someone and seemed happy that he never really thought to probe to much about this boyfriend who seemed to disappear and then re-appear. They never really talked about it.

Anyway, fast forward a decade, we are now married and have a 4 year old daughter. We've never been allowed to stay overnight at their house since our daughter was born. I honestly thought it was because they either didn't like me or didn't like our daughter. We live nearly 2 hours away, which makes visiting really difficult because 4 hours is a long time in the car with a baby and now toddler. BIL and SIL were always welcome to stay though, which is why I thought they obviously just didn't like us. But finally we got them to agree that we would all come for Christmas last year and we would all stay at the house together for the first time. Then a few weeks before Christmas, MIL called to tell us that the police wanted to speak to us as step-FIL is still on the sexual offenders registry and we aren't allowed to stay at their house unless we met with the police to be interviewed and give our consent for our daughter to be there. I could have punched her in the face! And if she had told us that in person, I probably would have, so I'm grateful she thought to call instead! Apparently, there was no plans to ever be honest about his past despite him having contact with our daughter because they were hoping they could just avoid saying anything until his period on the registry was up (he had to be on for 10 years) and then we never would have had to know the extent of it. The hitch was that the paperwork had been delayed in removing him from the registry, which they had hoped would be done before Christmas, but now would take several more months. He isn't allowed to be around a child for more than 12 hours without the parents giving consent and meeting with the police to be informed about his history of offenses against children.

So needless to say, this situation blew up after that because I was furious. I take these sorts of things very, very seriously. I have a history of sexual assault myself and I used to work as a social worker with vulnerable children, having had to report many incidents of abuse myself in my professional work. So this is a really big deal to me and they, of course, would have known that, which is why I suspect they tried to lie and cover it up. My husband and I immediately decided that step-FIL would have no further contact with our daughter. I have absolutely no reason to believe she has ever come to any harm. We only see them a few times a year. She's only 4 (and was 3 when this happened), and while MIL has babysat her at our house (with help from her sister, my husband's aunt who lives close to us), our daughter has never been left unsupervised at their house nor has step-FIL ever been to our house when MIL was babysitting (husband's aunt was there and can confirm this, I suspect she knows about his history which is why she volunteered to help so there was no chance step-FIL would be there). So though we have no reason to be concerned about our daughter's safety in the past, we are unwilling to even take the chance that anything could happen in the future and it was an easy decision to stop all contact with him.

Obviously this has been a massive blow to our trust and confidence in MIL and we set some very firm boundaries with regards to her future relationship with our daughter. She has never been very forthcoming about anything that has happened. She wholeheartedly believes that he is a 'victim' and he has suffered an 'injustice' perpetrated by this child's family and that any questions we have or any indication that we don't 100% trust him no questions asked is a sign that we are continuing to perpetrate this 'injustice' against him just like everyone else has. He very much has the classic abuser mentality that everyone is out to get him and the world has it out for him, which only confirms his guilt even more in my mind. MIL's relationship with him is very controlling and she is very manipulated. They put on a good front of being blissfully happy. But we have walked in on arguments they were having, as have BIL/SIL, where he speaks to her terribly and all is not as it seems on the outside behind closed doors.

As a result of this, my husband and I sat down and wrote out a list of questions for her/them (really, her but about the case and his restrictions in regards to children). Basically, we wanted to know the charges, how long his prison sentence was (we know he was in prison for 18 months, but that wasn't the whole sentence) and what restrictions he is currently under re: being on the sexual offenders registry. We wanted to make sure they were being totally honest with us and we wanted to check up to be sure that he hadn't violated any restrictions in regards to our daughter. We thought this would be an easy way to start the conversation, clear the air and get everything out on the table, and start trying to repair all the damage in our relationship with MIL so that she could continue having a relationship with our daughter. None of my family lives nearby and we only see them at holidays or birthdays a couple times a year. So my husband's family is our only 'local' family that my daughter sees more regularly. Without them, she literally only has us and an aunt and uncle (BIL/SIL), so it's important to heal this stuff as much as we can (except with step-FIL, obviously). We thought it wouldn't even be a big deal. Anyway, my husband went to deliver the letter and list of questions to her and talk to her, and she said, absolutely not, she would not answer those questions for us. We gave her a month or so of silence to think about it and asked again. She said no.

After that, my husband wrote her a very detailed and emotional email and explained how upset we were and how hurt we had been by all this, but how the only way forward was for her to start being honest with us and answering those questions was the first step. We had decided that if she was unwilling to have any sort of conversation with us about this then she would not be able to have a relationship with our daughter in the future. We hoped that this would at least wake her up to how serious this was. Her response was that if talking anymore about her partner's past was the only way she could be in her granddaughter's life then she would have to choose to no longer have a relationship with her because there was no chance that she would ever talk to us about the things we wanted to know. We were devastated, of course, but I was also really angry. My daughter had nothing to do with any of this and she is too little to understand why her grandmother has just vanished. I feel like our expectations were so lenient (several friends I have talked to about this situation said they would have cut both of them out from the start and never given her a chance to even have a relationship with our daughter again after knowing she conspired to allow a paedophile access to her).

All of this started last autumn and it's dragged on since. We can go a month or two without hearing from her and then she'll pop up calling and texting my husband like everything is fine. Or sending our daughter cards and gifts in the post. We then have to reiterate that she is no longer allowed a relationship with her (by her own choice) and that sending things in the post is inappropriate. Our daughter is old enough now that she knows how to spell her name and she knows when something is addressed to her. It puts us in the horrible situation of having to lie and take things away from her that she can clearly see are addressed to her. But I will not allow someone who won't participate in her life to continue to hold on tenuously by plying her with gifts. So this happens every few months and then it blows up again. In the midst of all of this going on, I got pregnant in February of this year and had a miscarriage in April, while dealing with this mess at the same time. I am very grateful to have gotten pregnant again straight away the next month and am now 14 weeks and all is well with this pregnancy.

But this situation continues to wear on me/us/our marriage. My husband is supportive and he agrees with the decisions we've made, but I can tell he is getting worn down by it all. We trade off having good weeks or bad weeks when we all but have a mental breakdown. Last week was a particularly bad week for me prompted by another letter from MIL about my 'unreasonable' and 'unjustified' behaviour in further 'victimising' step-FIL and another gift for our daughter (which promptly got sent right back return to sender). It makes me want to be sick to be honest. She has been notified by letter again that she has no relationship anymore with our granddaughter and basically to leave us alone.

I guess my reason for writing all of this (which I never intended to be quite so ridiculously long!) is to ask if anyone else has ever been in a situation like this with a family member who is a sexual abuser, but not involving you or your children directly, and how did you deal with it. This isn't just going to go away. They are married. He isn't going anywhere. He will continue to control and manipulate MIL. Even if she ever was to take our concerns seriously, start talking to us, answer the questions we have for her and try to heal the relationship between us which has been so completely fractured by all of this, honestly I don't know that I would ever want her around my daughter after all of this. It would have been different if she had been open and honest from the start when confronted and tried to help us to process all of this and if she had apologised. She has literally never once said, I'm sorry I brought this man around your child (and also my friends' children for that matter, he has attended my daughter's birthday parties with children running around everywhere and we had no idea).

But anyway, even if MIL had a change of tune tomorrow, I truly don't feel 100% comfortable that she wouldn't do whatever he tells her. What if he asked her to take inappropriate pictures of our daughter? She truly believes he is innocent. Would she chalk it up to that's nothing weird between a grandfather and a granddaughter to have a few pictures from bathtime? It makes me sick thinking about it. But we are going to forever have to be dealing with this because we have a large extended family and strong relationships with them that we don't want to lose just because we don't have a relationship with MIL. I've tried to find resources, but all I can find are resources for those who have been abused by a family member. That's not us, and I'm so grateful. But there is nothing out there on how to deal with having a sexual offender in the family and the strain that puts on family relationships. I guess I'm just looking to see if there is anyone out there who has been in a situation like this. I feel so lost some days dealing with it, and then other days so stressed out and angry. It takes up a lot of my time and emotional energy. Our family life has really suffered the past year, despite my husband and I doing our best to stay unified and be positive about it all. I know the stress is affecting our daughter.

OP, I'm in a vaguely similar position - a member of my extended family (not parents/PIL) has convictions for child pornography, only just escaping a prison sentence. His partner (my blood relative, if that makes any difference) says 'he was just looking at pictures' and 'he didn't know what he'd receive when he paid for images' (payment is what initially led to his arrest; he paid to watch videos of 8 yo's being raped).

His partner has also said publicly that she would happily leave a young child with him. We would therefore never allow her unsupervised contact with DD, and we don't see him at all. Their son is just about speaking to her, but not him, but she's never met the youngest grandchild - not so dissimilar to your situation.

While my relative told me about the case herself, it was google that provided me with details of the conviction and sentence. It was more recent though, and only reported in a local paper in detail - I guess that 10 years ago, local news may not have been online.

If i was your MIL i would struggle with your boundaries also. You are asking a grown woman to account for a decision she made, presumably not lightly, to get involved with a man who has an historic record for sexual abuse against a minor. You either trust your Mil to be a protective influence or you don't, asking her to jump through hoops now seems a little cruel.

Also this is a garbage argument.

OP did once trust her MIL.

Then she found out that her MIL did something incredibly stupid, selfish and naïve.

She dug a little deeper and found out that the woman is a victim-blamer / abuse-denier, in thrall to a convicted criminal who denies his culpability and hides his past.

So now OP doesn't trust her MIL (because she's not a complete fucking idiot)

And as a consequence, rightfully, there are now boundaries and standards that MIL needs to meet in order to regain trust.

AND... MIL refuses to meet those boundaries and standards.

So... OP, rightfully, does not trust MIL, and questions her ability to make good decisions in the interests of DD.

The fact that MIL was once trusted does not mean that she is entitled to be trusted for life.

How could it mean that? It would make no sense at all. If MIL started to show symptoms of dementia, would you say that OP needs to just trust her, because she's trusted her before?

New information about human beings becomes available all the time. Only idiots ignore that. Actions have consequences, people will judge you according to your actions, you aren't protected from consequences by virtue of being someone's GM ffs.

Dear god - they held family meetings behind your back????

This is all kinds of screwed up and smacks of the very dysfunction that perpetuates abuse.

I think you've done the right thing OP. If I were you, I'd be telling my DD that MIL and SFIL have done something really bad to another child and that I need to keep her safe.
You've probably already done this, but try putting his name in a search engine and see what comes up.
A lovely old lady moved next to us, looked like the granny from tweety pie. She always had sweets in her pocket, mixed in well with the Over 60's club etc. Was always offering to watch your dc if needed. It was really sad, her DH was in a coma after an accident had to stay in hospital and she could only visit a couple of times a month as he was in a special hospital miles away. Eventually, her married daughter moved near by too. Her DD was a bit full on friendly with everyone and her husband was always inviting the local DCs to come by to help him make dolls houses. This went on for 18 months, then one day another lady was visiting her sister at the OAP club that tweety pie type granny went to. She recognised her as a visitor in the prison her son was in. Tweety pie granny was so upset, she wanted to set the record straight and told everyone her husband had been targeted by a manipulative girl who offered him a quickie. Poor old tweeypie granny's DH.
So I googled him. Turns out, he, his mate and the son in law abducted the girl from a bus stop, and the 3 of them raped her.
The girl was 11!
Pretty soon, everyone was googling her 'D'h and soon after they all moved away from the area.
No one told us we had a convicted paedophile living nearby, no one.

I really do hope you find the answers OP.

The stamp is totally right IMO. People often ask how abuse happens and continues to happen. The answer is that for every abuser there are facilitators - people who for various reasons support and allow the abuse. They hide under protestations and justifications and in some level they enjoy helping abuse to happen - I think in some cases they like the feeling that they are the only ones who 'understand' the abuser - it's a self esteem boost to be part of that 'us against the world' fantasy. My parents facilitated my abuse because they have horribly low self esteem and they enjoyed the attention from a charismatic abuser. He only had an interest in them because he wanted access to their children. He knew exactly how to manipulate them and my mother actually forced me to be alone with him in a very obviously inappropriate situation. Even I, as a child, knew it wasn't right. She was willing to trade me for his good opinion.

When someone is in that mindset, and your MIL clearly is, they are very dangerous. I would not allow your MIL to be anywhere near your child. My mother has no contact with paedophiles today but I still don't trust her to look after my children.

For what it is worth I think you are doing the right thing.

Your Mil seems to be in denial and as for you "victimising" SFIL this would lead me to not trust that she would not carry out any "rules" you would want to set even if she had complied with your reasonable requests for information about the crime etc.

If DH feels he needs to have some sort of relationship with his mother I would suggest this be done by way of meeting at a neutral location without SFIL being present such as a meal out or at another family members and only on the understanding that if SFIL is brought up he'd be leaving.

If she is able to stick to this for a while you can then make a decision as to whether you would do the same with your daughter and you present too.

I feel certain that you are not likely to be bullied into doing something you feel uncomfortable with but appreciate the strain it must put on you.

So difficult but in lying about or covering up his past or not fully accepting what he has done she is enabling him in future (albeit unknowingly). She has also made the decision to put your child in potential danger. Paedophiles do not 'get better' but they do get smarter with how they operate.

Could DH meet up with her and explain that as she has decided to not be part of your dd's life then she cannot contact her - it is too confusing. He could offer to meet his mother a couple of times a year to talk about dd and how she is getting on.

Alternatively you can go a legal route to stop her contacting dd. She is an adult living with a sex offender who is making unsolicited contact with a minor against the wishes of the parents after all.

You and DH are doing exactly the right thing. I suspect Dh may have to make the decision to go NC with his mum ultimately.

OP I think you and your DH are handling it really well. I can understand how difficult it must be to deal with in a personal instead of a professional context but I think your instincts and actions so far are just right.

Second what @thestamp says in response to another poster. Your mil has betrayed your trust. I also agree with pp that she can't answer your questions because she has probably spent years avoiding that information and has her own system of denial and explanation that simply wouldn't hold up to outside scrutiny.

I think some counselling for you and especially your DH might be helpful, he must feel very conflicted and betrayed.

In terms of finding out further detail about the offences I am not sure you need to; you know he went to prison for sexual assault of a child, you have some details from mil. Details of convictions of this type are not always reported if the identity of the offender could reveal the identity of the victim, which horribly is often the case with assaults by family members.

DPs maternal grandfather was convicted of Sexually assaulting DSIL when they were children. His grandmother stuck by him as did all of his aunts and uncles.

DMIL obviously went NC with her father and by association her mother too as she decided to ignore the seriousness of what he had done a defended him until the day he died. All of DPs siblings, bar one sister are NC with their grandmother. I have never met her, nor do I want to or want my DD to meet her. I am unsure as to why one of his sisters stayed in contact and sees her regularly but never saw him after he was released from prison.

On the other hand my DM was in some way assaulted by her step father. I don't know the details, he was never convicted. We never had unsupervised contact with him and he wasn't a very nice person anyway so rarely interacted with us as children. I was never comfortable with him as a child and sensed my DMs barriers with him.

Personally, in your position I could never be in contact with MIL again. The fact that she didn't tell you all of these years is unforgivable. She chose to put your DD at potential risk and has chosen him. I agree with PP about looking at anti harassment injunctions if she continues to send things in the post.

NC means NC

Agree with pp, NC is definitely the way forward here. Your MIL has made her choice and has chosen to be with a man who has done terrible things.

If I were you, I'd forget trying to find out exactly what they are. Having been abused myself and in an unrelated case having a relative in prison right now for being a paedophile all I can say is what he did would have been horrific for that child-bearing but the specifics don't matter here. You know enough; he's an utter scumbag and she is an enabling liar. In some ways, she's almost as dangerous as he is.

for you OP and your DH. A tough situation to find yourself in. Your DD is lucky to have parents equipped to protect her against these people.

Sorry autocorrect, that should read child not child-bearing

Have you tried the uk database.

I don't have any advice but I think you're doing an amazing job and I think I'd go NC too

Seconding everything the stamp has said.

I've dealt with cases (family solicitor) involving abusers and wider family. Stamp is completely on the money here.

Agreed theStamp is absolutely right

Even if sfil was out of this picture, let's say they divorced, mil still lied to protect him and disregarded op's and d's concerns. No contact decision is the only one from me though I do totally understand that it's easier to say as an outsider. I get op's statement that sometimes she even questions herself. Go with your gut instinct OP. You were misled and therefore lied to.

OP my dhs family are similar to yours in terms of dysfunction. They have paedophiles they are protecting although thankfully nowhere near us and my DC's would never code into contact with them. I am always hypervigilant with my DC's around the family we do see just because I find them lacking in common sense in general. I wanted to post here to let you know I understand the head fuck. You are not being unreasonable or overreacting. The fact you are questioning if you are is part of the effect of their dysfunction on you. This is what it does. This is how abuse thrives. Good on you for seeing it for what it is.

I have direct experience with our in laws in connection with child abuse. Unfortunately we had to cut contact and it's been 5 years now. They believe I'm over reacting. We believe they are unwilling to face the truth with their own blood. To this end trust has been blown out the water and I told my dh if he lets either of them step within any proximity of my kids I'd kill him first and then them.

Not kill kill as murder. But you know what I mean. My dh wasn't as upset as yours given it was his own children. He saw the light.

There are no shades of grey when it comes to sexual assault of a child. Period.

I'm in the same situation as you, with my older brother. I have gone NC with him because of it. Even though my brother is also a vulnerable adult and I've looked out for him all our lives. He is now a convicted peaedophile, but even tho he is very unlikely to abuse my daughter. I just couldn't take the chance of it happening.

It sounds like your MIL is so desperate to be in a relationship with your SFIL that she is willing to disbelieve the decision of the courts, repeatedly lie to you and manipulate other family members.

Maybe she's being controlled and manipulated by SFIL, maybe she's weak, maybe she' can't bear being alone, maybe she's even scared of leaving.

It's very sad, but it doesn't really matter why she's doing it.

As MrsCropley correctly said a long way upthread, she chose a convicted sexual offender over her own son and granddaughter. To me, that would be the end of any relationship, ever. No second chances.

Your DH should get counselling to get over his guilt and to understand that he has his own family now, and the important thing is to protect them.

Absolutely you are right to be upset, but I see it a little differently, And think I'd allow MIL to visit and spend supervised time with DD, whilst you're present either in your home under your gaze or at a neutral place, park etc again with your husband there etc. The GD is definite no no for all time. I say this being a survivor of SA. I think extending the olive branch (strictly to MIL) just a little, might help ease the difficult position your DH is in. It is his mother, I think it will get increasingly difficult for him to maintain such a rigid stance over time. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to. But, I wonder if she died tomorrow how your DH would feel? Just worried it would affect him negatively, you mention him already feeling worn out by the situation.

Not suggesting you're wrong at all, just think if a way can be found to avoid this emotional strain it would be good. Sometimes you end up giving someone more grace than they ever deserve in the interests of peace. Even when they are wrong. Note: I would not ever permit her unsupervised access ever again. Also sorry if I missed some obvious point upthread. So sorry this vile criminal behaviour has intruded into your family. It always wrecks families one way or another.

Your MIL has hidden from you that her partner is a paedophile, despite knowing the legal implications of this and more importantly, despite knowing that your tiny, precious daughter might be at risk from him.

She has only told you about it because she was caught out.

You have now asked her for full disclosure, and she has refused. You made clear your very reasonable boundaries, and your reasons for setting those boundaries, and she is now complaining about that and criticising you for it.

You are, understandably, finding this upsetting and difficult.

The point here is that you have done nothing wrong. Your MIL and her partner are the ones in the wrong here, yet they seem to be blaming you for doing nothing more than taking reasonable steps to protect your daughter.

If you agree to see your MIL somewhere neutral, you can't not g

Gah! Sorry. Posted too soon.

Your mother in law is trying to break down your boundaries even now. If you meet her somewhere neutral she might well bring her partner, even if she promises not to.

You have to make your boundaries clear and stick to them.

I'd be tempted to tell her you don't want any contact at all until she answers your questions.

If she writes to you get someone