Holiday dread - what can I do to get through it?

[Dustifyoumust]

I'm going on holiday with my husband and kids next week and I'm absolutely dreading it. We booked it months ago and drained all of our savings to do it. Should be looking forward to it but I'm not sure how I'm going to get through it. Me and my husband hate each other, we're just together for the kids. I thought that I'd be ok to manage a week away with him but now I'm really worried that too much time together, in a hot country with three kids annoying us is going to cause some serious rows. He's already started bitching at me about my attempts to plan what things we need to take for self catering and what we might do for activities while we are out there. How can I get through this without there being a major implosion on the beach? I've even started looking into whether we could split the week between us so that we don't have to be there at the same time.

How can it be damaging them when we don't argue in front of them? They rarely see us in the house together due to our working arrangements so it would be a bit of a leap for them to have worked out that we don't like each other much. They are 3, 6 and 9. The eldest is bright but I doubt he's worked out the complex dynamics of his parent's relationship!

How much longer are you planning to stay together for these children?.

The two of you as their parents are showing your children that a loveless marriage is their norm too. Staying for the children is rarely if ever a good idea because it teaches them that your marriage was based on a lie. Also it places a terribly heavy burden on them, knowing that you only stayed together because of them. They would much rather you separate from each other because they know too that you stay for your own selfish reasons.

You would like to think that they are oblivious (denial is a powerful force) but I will tell you now that they are not. They see far more than you both care to realise. They will all leave home as soon as the opportunity presents itself and they won't come back to see you very often if at all. They will accuse you also of putting him before them and if you were to tell them that you stayed because of them, they will call you daft for doing so.

Desperate people do indeed do desperate things indeed but you are still making poor choices here for you and your children; the latest of which is this holiday. Fire fighting his kicking off like you are is taking up valuable time and energy that you could better employ into divorcing him.

Would you want your children as adults to have a relationship like yours is?.

You say that you hate each other and this only works as it is because you are both rarely if ever together at home. Your current arrangement whilst it may work for you both could too easily change and at short notice.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up?. Did you see similar as a child?

Do not kid yourself that your children do not know; they see their friends parents be together far more often and not act like this. They know far more than either of you care to realise; you and he are the reference for their future relationships and both of you between you are indeed teaching your kids that a loveless relationship is their norm too. Its no legacy to leave them.

You've said you dread meals out, but why? If you and your DH are so adept at looking happy in front of your kids then it'll all be fine, he won't complain until they're all fast asleep and then you can tell him you don't want to discuss it.

Or is he liable to shout in front of your kids, or strangers? I suspect the latter. If he can't be trusted not to kick off in front of your kids then you know you need to make plans to separate. If you must go on this holiday, then disengage, let him have his own way and smile sweetly, while mentally packing your bags.

I have thought about trying to set out some agreement about the holiday before we go but I can only see this descending into a slanging match. My husband is the world's most defensive man and cannot talk about anything without it provoking a derisory response. If I tried to say 'ok let's plan to avoid any conflict while we are away' he would say something like 'well it's you who starts the arguments so have a word with yourself'. I don't know if it's better to have that row before we go or just try to avoid it while we are there.

I don't think telling the op to leave him is particularly helpful at this point. She clearly won't.

Op - can you have a conversation with him before you go? To point out the kids don't know how bad things are and they will find out unless you can both bite your tongues. Tbh I agree with other posters and I reckon they know but that might be the only way to keep him behaving in a way that's half way reasonable.

I suggest you both take two days each to do something by yourselves, go to the supermarket alone and eat out tougher in informal places which are likely to have quick service. And don't drink. It will only make you more combative.

Then when you come back start making plans to leave.

Sorry what a shit situation op
I have been the child in this. They do know. They just do.
I know day to day it seems fine, but it just isn't.
All I would say for the holiday is put your happy face on, smile and smile. Don't engage with petty arguing. Just go for a walk if he starts on you.

But Christ, don't think that this is just ok for life. For you or your children. Or even your oh
I have so many friends who say their children don't know how unhappy they are and it's just TOTAL denial

@Dustifyoumust How can it be damaging them when we don't argue in front of them? They rarely see us in the house together due to our working arrangements so it would be a bit of a leap for them to have worked out that we don't like each other much.

Because when you are together, there is silence and tension in the air.
Because there isn't much laughter and fun and joy (I don't blame you, it sounds miserable for you).
Because there is no casual, informal loving talk of mummy or daddy from the other.
Because you are like ships in the night.
Because they can see how other mummies and daddies act and it is very different to you and him.
Because you can just feel it.

One of my earliest memories is being woken up by my parents fighting downstrairs, when they thought I didn't know. To this day I have never told them. I must have been about 4 at the time. They didn't divorce till I was about 17. I can't tell you what a weight lifted then, even if it wasn't much fun at the time.

I am sorry to make you feel worse, but I spent pretty much my entire childhood worrying and wondering if it was my fault, how I could fix it, what had I done wrong etc (because my only frame of ref was when I had been naughty, they acted cross or quiet like that too).

Trust me, they know something is up.

In a way, the fact that your marriage is dead (and both of you know this) should actually make things easier than if you were just having a rough patch. In my experience a lot of couples' arguments are because deep down they care about the other person and know there's something to 'lose'. If you no longer love each other then it should be easier to emotionally disassociate yourself and not be drawn into arguments.

I know you say your DH doesn't like talking but I'd try to talk to him before you go. Not an emotional 'what's gone wrong with us' chat but a practical 'let's call a truce and work out how we're going to enjoy our holiday' chat. This might involve splitting shifts of looking after the kids, planning low stress activities, or just an agreement to try and keep away from topics that make you row. Easier said than done, I know - especially if your DH isn't the reasonable type.

Also, I agree with PPs who say that this is just no way to live. Even if you really can't afford to split at the moment then seperating (and telling the kids) and living together for now is better than what you're going through. I hope it works out for you, you deserve better.

I understand exactly what you mean about the pointless arguments Dustifyoumust. On our holiday my H has argued about making a baked potato with one of the DC, and me forgetting a one euro coin for the trolley at the supermarket. I know they are ridiculous, and I try to rationally get through the arguments, but when you are dealing with someone who is unreasonable it's very difficult. Two of our three DC are grown up but are with us on holiday, he thinks they don't have a clue, but I know otherwise.
I would advise you to leave once you have got organised, it doesn't get better.

Your children might not see the arguments. But parents who do nothing together, planning to stay apart on holiday, eat separately, do you think that's a good example of a relationship for them to learn from? I grew up with parents like you two sound and I'm fucked up! Please don't think it isn't harming them.

If the children are oblivious and you are merely ships passing in the night then you should be able to have a conversation about having a pleasant holiday for your children's sake. Are you over thinking it though? Do you need to plan for every eventuality? Why not batt it back to him 'do you want to eat out tonight'? Etc

I know you don't want to hear it but the fact you can't even eat together shows how dead in the water and what an effect your relationship is having on your children. Can your h not stay at home?

Lastly I hate it when I read 'financial' and 'work' reasons for not splitting up an abusive relationship. It's scary I get it. But they do know. And actually you sound in the shit financially anyway so what favours is staying together doing you? Except a bucket load of tension leading into a happy time. Why not turn on the charm offensive and see how he reacts? Be positive and full of joy for the holiday.....do it in front of the children. Sometimes we get sucked into the everyday of life...

What shotsfired said... I've been the child. When I was 15 ny mum told me about her and my dad... I knew. They're not stupid.

But to your question - coping mechanisms, rather than focusing on how you will avoid your H, just focus on your children the whole week. Make it a week of time with you, full of fun and games and nice food, if he wants to join in or do his own thing then that's up to him!

Yeah they know
I remember going to my friends house at every opportunity because they had a happy loving home. I went on holidays with them, spent so much time there. I wanted to be in their family.

As your children get older, do you really want them to wish they were in another persons family and not yours

You might be ships in the night, but if the only time you're together is this holiday and you know it's going to be tense and argument ridden then how do you think that makes them feel about themselves

I didn't mean that as an attack! Just something to think about long term

Send him off with the kids and stay home and get your ducks in a row and actually live in peace.

You'll be doing your kids and yourself a MASSIVE favour.

It'll be the best thing you ever did.

A week in the sun in misery has got to just pale by comparison.

Ok if you are determined that you have to stay together then you need to emotionally disengage. Arguments only happen if 2 people engage in them. Treat him with polite distance. Don't respond to any attempts to rile you. Smile, look away, ignore, change the subject. Seek out time for yourself and with the children and ensure he knows he can do the same.

It's not an abusive relationship - we just don't love each other anymore. People fall out of love all the time. I'm not bothered about being in a loving relationship so I'm not fussed to split my family up in some vain quest for romantic love. A roof over your head, food on your table and encouragement to succeed is what my kids need. Not a rosy photo-finish of a loving mum and dad.
It sort of feels like I'm planning to go on holiday with a difficult relative!

Ok I too think you should separate and that this holiday is a terrible idea.
However back to coping mechanisms.
Is there a children's club? If so book the kids in for it every day it will entertain them and give you a break. Anything going at the hotel/ apartment book it . From snorkelling to face painting you name it book it and act as though it us the her best thing since sliced bread.
Excursions , research before you go ask the kids ' this sounds like fun , I'll book us on this trip',
If your husband pulls his face, ignore and go on the trips without him.
If he does cause a scene/ atmosphere at all tell the kids he is unwell, leave him in the apartment and you and the kids go on your merry way. Tell the kids you have to leave dad because he had got the shits and they mustn't be near him.
Try your best to make this a good holiday for the kids.
Join in with games etc that way you will probably make friends and this gives you someone to talk to if your dh gets all arsey.
Sit between your dc on the plane do you don't have to speak to your dh.

dustifyoumust your children know. Denial is part of the process but your children know. You are making excuses, just as I did for so long. You think arguing is the only thing that's damaging to a child? No. Having two silent parents who clearly don't want to be in each other's company and don't speak when they are is more damaging. You'll not accept advice so just go on your holiday and wing it. It's pointless offering someone advice that is unwilling to take it. Good luck

Op, I'm honestly not trying to catch you out, but you're contradicting yourself quite a bit.

In your op you use the words hate, dread, bitching and major implosion. None of which sounds like part of the peaceful, cooperative mutual parenting you mention later.

Look, scratch the surface and I dare say half the parents you know are staying together for the kids. I know I am, to an extent. But I don't dread holidays because I kind, loving and respectful partner who is equally invested in making family life fun and pleasant.

When you said you hate each other, why is this?

If you manage to stay civil around each other at home because you are like ships in the night then just be like ships in the night on holiday. Split the kids up one goes with mum one day while the others go with dad and then swap.

You can fall out of love but still respect each other enough to be kind.

However this isn't what is being described as you say eating out is torture, that's really not normal or usual and your children will know that.

Why do you feel you hate him?

Make plans for activities for you & the kids. If "DH" wants to come, he can. If not, he can drink, sunbathe, swim etc. Just get ready, say where you're going, come with or not.

By the pool, beach - put headphones in, iPod, podcasts, books. You can watch the kids, you don't have to listen too. At night, kids in bed, read them stories, a long shower and read in bed.
Treat it as a retreat. Give kids something to amuse them, then headphones in & relax.
Ask him "Would you like to..." wait for reply, then become occupied again. Keep it smooth, civil and polite.
Remember that children are watching and listening.
Smile, be civil, be the calm, happy parent.
But don't take any shit.
If that starts, leave the room taking kids with you, headphones in, head in book, go in pool, walk away. He can't argue with fresh air.

P.S. My parents kept up stony silences for days/weeks on end. Hostile, angry silences. Barbed comments, sly asides.Vile comments about each other.

I prayed they would divorce. How I prayed.

In the nicest possible way, you are deluding yourself that this relationship has no impact on your kids. You are also letting your life slip through your fingers. I understand that fear of rocking the boat, I was there once myself - for far too long. I let decades pass. In the end, it was my kids that woke me up but by then the damage was done. You need to be honest with yourself. Your children will grow up better adjusted if you separate & you live a more mentally healthy life. You can do it. There is plenty of help here on mn to see you through. Once you're out the other side you'll wish you'd done it sooner.