Children being looked after by others when with ExW

[user73489723]

Hi,

I'm wondering if I can get opinions on this and if anyone has experience. I have access to my children 1 night a week and every other weekend and have requested more access to make it a 50/50 shared custody arrangement which is always knocked back with a rejection, so I have basically given up on that.

However, this morning I turned up at the children's school and saw my ExW's car there very early. I asked at reception as I was dropping something off and she said, no the kids weren't in yet, but I saw that my ExW had signed in to go into the school. Emailed and after a few hours a reply from ExW was to say the kids were at another parents.

In the past, when one of the children has been ill, she hasn't told me until after school and the drop off/pick ups she gets other parents to do. I really have no idea how often she is getting others to care for the children. They go on sleepovers with friends a lot (every weekend they are with her practically). I work from home most days and would be available to do all of the above. I get that she isn't asking me because she hates me basically, but is this right? Shortly after the split she came down on me like a ton of bricks when she found out I was going to use a babysitter one evening (I didn't use one in the end and haven't used one since).

Anybody got similar accounts?

"And Cafcass workers would never ask a small child,who they would,prefer to live with."

Erm... also wrong, very wrong. But then the one involved with my DC was a very-recently-ex social worker who was also happy to lie through her teeth about a conversation she and I had had.

She wouldn't look at me as she was excused. I guess at least she had that much shame left.

It depends which family court you are at. Our one listened to wishes of the children at 11. The eldest two moved to us at this time. The judge in my DH children's case said that he always started at a position of 50/50 and would only alter that if one parent actively DIDNT want 50%.

You need to be proactive and get mediation/CAO moving. If you are available willing AND there is no reason why the dcs welfare would be compromised living with you, then you should have no problem.

Christ if the op was a woman WTAF responses would there be

It's different if cafcass or the court or someone neutral asked the dc where they want to live - I thing it's a terrible idea for one of the parents to ask them. Put so much pressure on the dc - they'd feel so stuck in the middle and worried about upsetting or hurting one or the other parent - awful terrible idea!

Maybe your ex sees it that when it is on her time it is up to her to make alternative arrangements if she is unable to look after the kids and this is simply what she is doing.

The sleepovers to me are your ex facilitating your kids social lives. There are a lot of threads on here about parents who won't let their kids spend time with their friends/do activities etc on THEIR time and it is generally agreed that this is not in the kids best interests. Also when the kids are old enough to have a say they tend to vote with their feet and not go to stay with the parent who won't let them do anything. Something to think about??

You sound like you are trying to build a case for when you go to court. Obviously you have the right to do that but you do come across as if you are checking up on her.

How did you know that she had signed into the school? At my kids school there is a sign in book and for me to check I would actively have to get the book and look through it.

For goodness sake are they not allowed a normal life. Sleepovers and visiting friends are part of a normal childhood.

Despite all the angst from other replies Op. let's talk this through.

You want a 50/50 arrangement.

You haven't got one. Does she work? It appears you work full time? Important, as my best friend is going through a divorce and he wants 50/50, his own lawyer says he won't get it, because he works and she doesn't, despite her having an affair and causing the marriage breakdown. I digress!

Do you have concerns she isn't coping? So whilst denying you access over and above the "compulsory" do you feel she then wants to send your children to alternative care providers? Who are these people? You say these are children's friends? How does this effect their routine and chance of having a normal family life?

Start gathering information on all of the above and seek help from a solicitors asap.

I do think fathers are very sorely represented in the courts when it comes to childcare arrangements, in my opinion if you can afford wrap around care for the days you have them and work you should have them, according to my friends solicitor though if mum doesn't work they will award her more custody, it's very old fashioned..

Oh come on. A social life, in terms of sleepovers, would be once every couple of months, not every other weekend (almost every time she has them). And that would also depend on the age of the kids in question.

When exactly do the OPs DC get to spend any quality time with their Mum?!

Let's be honest here, nobody would be defending a Dad who palmed his kids off on his weekends like this (at least, I've yet to see it happen on threads which are a reverse of this one). Yes, we may only be getting one side of the story but she's hardly coming across as parent of the year, is she?

And if she's got no legitimate reason to freeze their Dad out, then it would be overwhelmingly in the kids interest to be spending some of that cared-for-by-third-parties time with their parent.

OP I think you are getting a hard time on here. It is in best interests of kids to stay over with parent, be that Mum or Dad. I think she wants the money from you which she wouldn't get if split was 50/50.
Sleepovers, playdates are all good but surely the kids would rather be home occasionally. Sounds like they are all over the place. Stay firm with asking for more access.

A sleepover every few MONTHS? Did you not have friends as a child?? It's very normal for more sociable children to have a sleepover at least every fortnight, often once a week... Ime anyway.

OP, dont focus on your ex's arrangements. Focus on arguing for 50/50 contact. Then you get to do whatever you want on your time.

You could ask the court to compel your ex to give you right of first refusal for all childcare, I have that with my ex with whom I recently went properly 50/50. He also has said I "palm off" the DC on babysitters... Yeah... Because I am a single mum, who until recently had 70%, and DC need to maintain a rs with a trusted babysitter since I don't have family or any other help.

Your ex sounds like she is living a normal life, facilitating her kids social life, and maybe going out of an evening once a week. That's not actually a big deal and it's good for children to have a range of trusted people in their life.

You yourself need to focus on what you're going to do to get more access/contact. That's the actual problem that you need to solve for yourself. Your exs life etc is not the problem.

Agree with PP what the responses here would be VERY different if the OP was a woman!

My advice...don't interfere with your ex W's childcare arrangement because you have no reason to be worried about them and in the occasion that you need some arrangement don't tell ex W do she can't interfere with yours

At the moment custody is split about 65/35 in her favour. It's not the wrist outcome in the world but you can try and arrange more if you want.

Unlike what that poster is saying above, family courts start from a position of it should be 50/50 and there needs to be good reasons for then not ordering that.

Dd had sleepovers 2 or 3 times a month from 6. I really don't think that's unusual. Enabled me to get to know her friends (she's still close friends with them at 18).

Op do you encourage your child to invite their friends to yours for sleepovers on your weekends?

You haven't said why your exw was in school early, in your post. Is this deliberate? Maybe she had an early meeting that she needed to do absent of the DC's and dropped them off with another mum earlier in the morning to attend.

Just 'popping' into school, reading signing in book, asking if kids were in school makes you sound controlling with an agenda. Even if the DC's were already in school, their school day is not the time to see them. Have you thought whoever you spoke to might not have seen the DC's but they may have in fact been there?

DS has went his friends house when he's been to his DF and his friends have come over when they been with their DF. I would imagine it will increase as DS gets older wanting to go out and socialise with friends rather than spend time with me or his DF which is fair enough. Sounds like shes facilitating their social life. During her time I don't see why it would be your bussiness. I'm not answerable to my ex when my dbro has DS over night every half term it's something they do and have time together uncle and nephew as dbro hasn't got DC.

Perhaps I live in a unsociable area then but, if so, that seems to apply to where DC were moved to.

I know enough of the parents well enough to get a good idea of the frequency around here and even my older daughter (early teen) has only been to or held sleepovers during school hols.

Both my DC and my partner's have lots of very good friends, lots of invites for tea after school, parties etc, so it's not some sort of social purdah.

Anyway, I'd still ask when exactly the dcs Mum is spending any quality time with the kids in a situation where they're on sleepovers most of her weekends and being looked after by friends or paid childcare on enough weekdays for it to have become very noticeable to OP.

My kids have a lot of sleepovers but it isn't to Palm them off as I have my other kids' friends for sleepovers, so usually end up with more kids than I have. They just really enjoy it.

I think you need to find out the whole story. Sit down with your exw in a non accusatory way and reassure her that if she needs childcare then you'd be more than happy to be the first port of call.

How old are your children?

How old are your children, OP? I think that would make a difference here (as to whether it's social or not).

Are they both (all?) at friend's houses at the weekend, or just one?

From what you've said, I don't think it matters anyway. Your focus for now should be appealing to the courts for more access if that's what you want, no pulling apart your exW's childcare plans (which from the limited information you have provided sound fine).

I really think the replies to this would be different if it was the DM who was concerned. Surely if the DF wants to see them he should be allowed, they are his kids after all!? You'd all be moaning if the DF wasn't bothered about seeing them.
I personally don't think midweek sleepovers are the norm at all. Kids round our way don't have sleepovers every weekend - it's a holiday treat or a special bday thing.
To those saying the DF should offer sleepovers, most parents probably wouldn't allow their kids to stay over with a single Dad, and plus he probably wants to spend quality time with them.
Surely the DF should be allowed some say in their upbringing?

Yeah, it's that good old MN double standard at work again.

Dad doesn't want to see his kids?
"He's a shit Dad" (and yes, I agree).

Dad only sees his kids the court appointed minimum (ironically because he has no choice)?
"He's a shit Dad. Why isn't he fighting for more?"

Dad would like to see more of his kids and he asks for 50:50?
He's "being unreasonable" or 50:50 is "not good for the kids, they'd be unsettled" or he's "only doing it to avoid CMS" or he's "just trying to control the exP" or exP "cannot face spending that much time away from the dc" (like he wants to?! But then who cares about the father?).

Dad is concerned about his kids?
"Her hours, her business" or "why are you snooping" or "what were you doing at the school on one of her days"?

Etc. Delete as applicable.

Ok I know this is hard, but I know what I am talking about OP. Get completely out of the mindset you are in, worrying/obsessing about your ex and the rights/wrongs of the situation will drive you mad. Your focus should be 100% on the children. I know this will be a tough thing to hear and I expect you to push back on this, but worrying about what your ex does/doesn't do is obstructing your thinking.

Focus on your kids, and realize that your ex isn't calling all of the shots, all that is happening is you are letting her. I wouldn't actually advise court if you can possibly avoid it, but goto a solicitor and just have a meeting outlining how much you see the children and what you would ideally like to have happen, and see what they advise. One of the things they will point you at is mediation.

Save some money though in case court becomes a necessity, but write in a clear and concise manner to your ex (in fact you want to start relying on written communication so you have it to refer to) that whilst you are grateful you see the kids as much as you do you are keen to start having them more and more and write down a reasonable proposal for shared care (and get out of your head of 50/50 being some sort of holy grail of fairness!), and invite her to respond with what she thinks is fair. Do not make threats, do not threaten with court, just be cordial and respectful. If you just keep getting flat out denial or refusal to engage write again, without trying to press her buttons that you would be open to discussing this through mediation.

Keep logs of how much you see your kids, maintain an impeccable demeanour when dealing with your ex AT ALL TIMES which isn't to say let her walk all over you, but do not take the bait, do not get drawn into arguments, just state your position clearly and leave it at that.

If after giving your ex every possible opportunity to co-parent with you effectively goto your solicitor and take their advice on how to proceed. I know you hear horror stories about courts being biased towards men, but I have been through this process and from my perspective nothing could be further from the truth. Where tonnes of people go wrong is they are combative, and argumentative with thier exes and this makes the whole endeavour a massive mess to untangle.

Courts will always try to make decisions based on the best interests of the children, and are not trying to take one side or another in gender wars. I've been through it and actually this common misconception may work to your kids benefit, if you go in composed, polite, respectful and there can be no doubt in any judges mind that your ONLY concern is for your children wheras your ex goes in combative and argumentative she will be shooting herself in the foot severely.

But only goto court if you have no choice, as you'll have to salvage a co-parenting environment with someone even MORE hostile if you go to court and she feels she loses. This might protect you and your legal position, and sometimes you have no other recourse, but psychologically it is not ideal for your children. Best of Luck!

I can see your point of view. You want to see them more, she sometimes needs childcare, so why not just ask you, win win for both.
Unfortunately it rarely happens this way. Also, realistically, unless you still get along very well, it never works out as well as you'd think with things like this.

Go to court and get your 50:50 and leave it at that. Whatever she does on her days, and whatever you do on your days, neither of you can say anything about unless it's harmful to the DC.

Well said changed complete double standards.

Changedname3456

excellent post.. I'm almost choking here on the hypocrisy of the posts when a Father is simply asking for advice...

OP go to Court armed with your Legal Rep and all the information you've just provided on here....

I'm darned sure your Kids will relish the opportunity to spend more time with THEIR FATHER xx

OP you wrote that:

I was going to use a babysitter one evening

I have tried to do alternative childcare arrangements in the past for when I couldn't pick them up from school.

Did you ask your xw first if she wanted to have the children.